[WIP] R.E.L Skylon C2. Alpha Released. FAR config broken. (08 Dec 2014)

[montyben101]

I like the panels with slight dirt, it dosent have to be EXACTLY like in real life. If you want you could just make a carbon fiber pack and a "panel/dirt" pack, though that would take longer

[Xenon2462]

if your going to make the preecoolers compatible with KSPI they should use helium

[CaptainKipard]

if your going to make the preecoolers compatible with KSPI they should use helium

Well, Skylon uses its hydrogen fuel to cool the engines.

[Konnor]

if you are going to make the preecoolers compatible with KSPI they should use helium

KSP Interstellar does not require helium for precoolers, as far as I remember. Not even in unofficial experimental build by WaveFunctionP.

[stephm]

hi !

I haven't see you're post yet sorry for that !

The plane look gorgeous !

what it's you're problem for the landing gear !

If you want, I stop my landing gear to make a simplified part similar at you're model plane.

but keep in mind I'm not totally sure of all thing to do to make a good landing gear !

All my knowledge is based on picture of the standard part (smallgearbay) and some info

find here (big thank for that !)

Like my tutorial to make a little animated box (see French forum), I can provide

the blender+ unity file (blender 2.71 and unity 4.5.2).

If you're landing gear is not complex make the animation in UNITY it's very easy too !

@+

Edit if you are agree, I need an orthographic picture or rear gear (left or right) and front gear!

Edited August 2, 2014 by stephm

[CaptainKipard]

Merci Stephm.

Why do you need orthographic screenshots? I can give you those but the gears are a little complex and some components obstruct the view of other components. I can give you wireframe views with each component highlighted and labelled, but that could be a little difficult to view.

[stephm]

hi !

I mean without perpective deformation, to use the picture to made a simplified version and to catch

the overall scale of the gear model .

the gear tuto will be made with some primitive object (box cylinder) but placed to catch you're geometry

try to make a front and left view and perspective for each gear.

I think it's enough to make a mockup of you're model.

I have see you're other topic the rear gear is relatively complex and he need some module to be animated !

I'm back here tomorrow for me it's time to bed now ! (prepare the screenshots !)

@+

Edit :

For tuto purpose and to not pollute with to much picture on how to thing on this post, we continue on you're

Main-Landing-Gear-Rigging-Animating

Edited August 3, 2014 by stephm

[Xenon2462]

Well, Skylon uses its hydrogen fuel to cool the engines.

i have closely researched on the preecooler technology and they said its planed to use the fuel (Hydrogen) to cool the helium then that fuel is burned and the fuel cools the intakes. Helium is used for its low density and hard to burn (aka safer than hydrogen). I disagree that KSPI preecoolers use power to cool and yes i know preecoolers work like freezers and fridges. they use power to drive motors to transfer the fluid (in this case helium) to the heat sink (hydrogen pipeline). Sorry if i got facts wrong or misspell things.

[CaptainKipard]

Alright, that being the case I can safely ignore the helium, since it's an internal part of the mechanism. Thanks for clarifying.

[Xenon2462]

all you need to do is make them use a lot less power but it is a good idea to make them work without it for non KSPI users

I've be researching this for 3 years now and i know how everything works i even done an concept idea of how it would work in ksp before the module system came around. Now its a stock thing its a lot easier the body would be one part landing gear could use firespitters plugin for real suspension and more recently hybrid engines are possible along with unmaned systems.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Xenon2462

[CaptainKipard]

Now its a stock thing its a lot easier the body would be one part landing gear could use firespitters plugin for real suspension and more recently hybrid engines are possible along with unmaned systems.

Could you rephrase that with punctuation and correct grammar? I'm having trouble understanding it.

[Xenon2462]

ok ill try and fix my grammar but i can't promises the cargobay, fuel tanks and command pod could be one part for simplicity. the hybrid engine now don't require plugins. stock landing gear now can have steering system but i'm not one to recommend plugins but firespitter simulates suspension better but by all means use the stock system if you want. i hope this is better i'm not one with the best grimmer.

[CaptainKipard]

@stephm

About the landing gear:

- It was always my intention to use Firespitter for the landing gear.

- I'll look into adding a light.

- What modifications do I need to make?

One problem I realised is that I designed to landing gear to be already compressed. Uncompressed gear is a lot longer, but it's already too late to change. The modelling and textures are almost finished now. I think if I want to fix this problem I will have to do it later. Right now I just want to learn how to do the Unity setup for the gear, and then I'll remodel everything if I feel the need to.

edit

Please keep all development discussion here.

I still need some time to have a look through the files you sent me.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Cpt. Kipard

[stephm]

ok no problem , and for the front gear too you want use the same pluggins ?

(I have downloaded the last version of firespitter, yes lot of function it's you're choice .)

Personnaly I use the FSanimateGeneric with a little box, is much better than the stock module.

One problem I realised is that I designed to landing gear to be already compressed. Uncompressed gear is a lot longer, but it's already too late to change....

You can change everything you want at anytime, the worst thing to change is the animation, but for geometry or texture it's fast .

tomorrow I'm looking to make the same version with the firespitter plugins ! .

edit :

forget for the light, it just an empty game object

and a mesh in blender not a big deal !

steph

Edited August 5, 2014 by stephm

[CaptainKipard]

ok no problem , and for the front gear too you want use the same pluggins ?

(I have downloaded the last version of firespitter, yes lot of function it's you're choice .)

Actually I just saw this thread. So I don't want firespitter anymore. This looks better.

Also I'm seriously considering remodelling the whole spaceplane. That suspension is getting on my nerves.

[stephm]

hi !

About this link give a big smile to my face, when I see you're post !

and because for that :

I try to make for you a mockup like you're rear Gear !

And it's not easy , for now the two wheel turn suspention on the front wheel work not for the rear yet !!

to much limitation !!!

And if I may to give you a bid advice, it's to start to make a simple part and export to see

how thing work, the error the limitation, start on simpliest part with one function !

Today when I make the Rear gear I have take no precaution about the size :

-first import in KSP an enormous GEAR

So decide to use the rescale function and big weird thing come to the model !

I'm not sure but it's seem the Wheelcolliders physics ignore the rescale and keep is scale

imagine consequence in KSP , a wheel in the air lol!!!!

Start to make simple part to acquire the automatism to limit error !

@+

Edited August 6, 2014 by stephm

[CaptainKipard]

Do you have your blender set up to use meters?

[stephm]

yep the real model size was 10 meters , don't pay attention at all in blender during the creation !!

corrected now !

but not the rest ....

(Oup forget that, yes I have seen you other post about unwrapping but of course I arrived to late lol)

not see the SOLVED in title)

@+

Edited August 6, 2014 by stephm

[CaptainKipard]

shows a Concorde nose gear impact test at 19m 32s. Notice how the torque arms look in the air and during the impact. I will need to correct the deployed state of all the the gears, enlarge the bays and fix the hydraulics accordingly. I should have paid more attention to reference material.

[stephm]

looking video now thank for the link !

Edit :7/08/14:

This is the part example show in picture above, if you want test it !

- the Part -

Why 50% : in the way how is work, he can't simulate all the situation of the gear on ground !

He work on one way and is to show you the limitation, with basic module

I need to look in deeper for Firespiter just to see if possible to enlarge the behavior of gear on ground !

I hope for you, the big Jumbo plugins, will be released soon ! if he keep his promises!!

But in my opinion, don't make to much realistic thing, it's KSP and not Flight Simulator!

Plane with a rear gear with two functionals wheels, moving Up and down with the WheelCollider will be enough

and with torque arm of course.

edit :

After looking the New video on Jumbo plug, they are strong chance to see Real gear in action

on the Skylon plane, so ignore totally my precedent advice !!! héhé !

I'm happy for you, someone find the way to add big Module landing Gear.

Steph

Edited August 8, 2014 by stephm
Another test sample

[CaptainKipard]

Yep. Those physics demos look really good.

@ZodiusInfuser

Here's the front gear in it's current state.

- The shock absorber is fully decompressed.

- The image in the background is AFAIK official from REL themselves. The arch shows how the gear should retract. I already had to place the pivot slightly higher on a previous iteration of the gear to make the hydraulics look as if they could physically push the gear into it's position. I cannot lift it any more if I want to stay true to that blueprint.

- The hydraulics right now are not long enough, when retracted, and barely short enough when deployed. This is the problem.

- The gear is based heavily on Concorde, because it's the closest thing I could find to the "official" 3D models on RELs website.

Long story shot, I need help making the gear mechanically plausible without departing too much from that blueprint.

[ZodiusInfuser]

@ZodiusInfuser...http://i.imgur.com/d1QkkVM.png

I see the dilema you PM'ed me about. I'll have a look at it during my lunch break later (edit: done, see below)

First thoughts are:

- Angle the rear piston outwards more, such that it gets longer (don't know if this would reduce or increase the problem though).

- Reduce the angle the gear rotates by. Currently it moves over 90 degrees to match the reference material, but that could be causing more problems than it solves.

- Flip the whole assembly 180 degrees, such that when folded the piston is towards the top side of the bay (again not sure if this would reduce or increase the problem. Would make a bit more sense to me though).

- Make it a nested piston:

Edit: The first suggestion would work well, and wouldn't need that much of a shift from where it is currently

Edited August 8, 2014 by ZodiusInfuser

[OrbitusII]

I like the new extended suspension, it definitely looks better. A tad long compared to the Concorde's proportions but I don't mind, makes it look a bit more Kerbal.

[CaptainKipard]

I tried options 1 and 3 in a bunch of configurations and none of the work well. Option 2 is not an option unfortunately.

I think my only way out at this point is a telescopic piston. If I can rig and animate it in Blender then that should solve my problem.

I think I can do it with two location contraints, taking 50% influence from the cylinder and end piston.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Cpt. Kipard

[lo-fi]

The fix is easy, you just have to make the cylinder and rod a tiny bit longer:

Seems visually better than some of the other options. Do you want the updated file? It'll come back in 3ds, fbx or dae etc. - I'm afraid Blender gives me a migraine every time I open it

Edit: Stunning work, btw. Not usually my kind of thing, but I'm looking forward to this. Realised I hadn't chimed in before

Edit2: One final thought: The mechanism at the top of the the leg looks suspiciously like it's designed to spread out left and right, essentially shortening the leg as it goes into the bay. Is this actually what's going on? If you like, I'll pop up to Duxford and chat one of the stuff into letting me into the gear bay to take some photographs. Any excuse to get up to Duxford.

Edited August 9, 2014 by lo-fi