C7 Flight Pack Tutorial

[White Owl]

Get C7\'s Flight Pack here: link

Hello there. C7 studios asked me if I\'d consider producing a series of tutorial videos, to teach people how to use the parts in his Flight Pack. I immediately agreed, because I\'m a big fan of his work, and because spaceplanes are the feature of KSP I\'m most excited about.

Here\'s a link to the first video in the series, building the first airplane:

Here\'s part two, flying and landing the plane:

Part three, using the mk2 fuselage:

Part four, flying the mk2 hull:

Part five, vertical takeoff and landing:

Part six, building the orbiter and mothership:

And finally, part seven, flying the orbiter and mothership:

My goal in producing these is to give some guidance to people who might be having trouble getting started with spaceplanes in this game. Maybe you\'ve built a couple planes already, but they wouldn\'t fly. Maybe you just picked up the Flight Pack and aren\'t sure quite what to do next. This series is for you. I assume the viewer has a working knowledge of building and flying rockets in KSP, but no experience with aircraft.

Questions? Problems? Comments? Leaving comments on the videos might work... but I really think asking your questions here on this thread would be better. Ask away, and I or some other more experienced virtual pilot will try to help you out. Spaceplanes are so much fun, everybody needs at least one in the hangar.

I\'ll include .craft files for the planes in the videos for reference. But I believe you\'ll learn better by putting them together yourself first.

Thank you for reading and watching.

[Melfice]

Unless I\'m doing it wrong, the .craft file won\'t download properly.

All I\'m getting is an 'index.php' file.

[Kryten]

All I\'m getting is an 'index.php' file.

That\'s a problem with the latest firefox update-it doesn\'t work properly with this forum software.

[Melfice]

That\'s a problem with the latest firefox update-it doesn\'t work properly with this forum software.

I\'ll need a shower now, but using IE managed to get me the file.

Thanks for the help.

[White Owl]

I\'ll need a shower now, but using IE managed to get me the file.

Thanks for the help.

I know exactly what you mean. Not even the IE tab for Firefox seems to work anymore.

[Ferrit]

A good and informative tutorial, enjoyable to boot!

I look forward to more. 8)

One little request, at the end of the second video you mentioned that the wings being along almost the full length of the craft keep it stable no matter the fuel load, so something about how to balance wings with payload position would be very useful(so if the craft is nose heavy due to a habitation module or something, how should the wings be \'designed\' for best results?). I hope that makes sense.

Keep up the great work

[C7Studios]

Just had a chance to watch the videos. Excellent start. I\'m looking forward to seeing the rest.

[Melfice]

I\'ll admit not having watched your tutorial series YET.

But I did download the trainer craft (as you know).

I discovered something fun. Adding an ASAS right behind the cockpit means you\'ve got auto-pilot.

It also means I might as well remove the landing gear, because the cockpit just dropped off upon the tiniest contact with the ground.

Other than that, this was one of the most stable flights I\'ve done in a while.

[White Owl]

A good and informative tutorial, enjoyable to boot!

I look forward to more. 8)

One little request, at the end of the second video you mentioned that the wings being along almost the full length of the craft keep it stable no matter the fuel load, so something about how to balance wings with payload position would be very useful(so if the craft is nose heavy due to a habitation module or something, how should the wings be \'designed\' for best results?). I hope that makes sense.

Keep up the great work

Ah, right, balancing center of lift with the center of gravity. If it\'s nose heavy, the lift is too far back or the weight is too far forward. It either needs more lift up front, or less weight up front, or more weight in back. Adding canards up front is a simple solution.

[White Owl]

I\'ll admit not having watched your tutorial series YET.

But I did download the trainer craft (as you know).

I discovered something fun. Adding an ASAS right behind the cockpit means you\'ve got auto-pilot.

It also means I might as well remove the landing gear, because the cockpit just dropped off upon the tiniest contact with the ground.

Other than that, this was one of the most stable flights I\'ve done in a while.

Ha! I bet you attached the nose wheel to the ASAS, right? If so, I made the same mistake and C7 straightened me out. Most parts outside this particular mod pack aren\'t strong enough to attach landing gear.

[Melfice]

Nope.

Removed the rest of the ship INTACT from the cockpit, added an ASAS under the cockpit, re-added the rest of the ship and took it out for a spin.

Tiniest nudge, and the cockpit came rolling off.

[White Owl]

I had one plane that broke apart on landing for no readily apparent reason. Drove me crazy for a while. Then I accidentally fixed it by slightly adjusting the distance between the landing gear. I figure KSP\'s physics engine was modelling some kind of resonance effect, and moving the landing gear a little bit de-tuned the vehicle. Give that a shot, maybe.

[cardgame]

How slow do you need to be going to land something like this? [The ship in tut]

I followed the same basic pattern but made a few changes (one tailfin for more stability, actually - less jerking and losing control) and no canards.

EDIT: Found my answer. Anything under 40 m/s seems to work with about 80% chance of success. Under 30 m/s it\'s pretty much guaranteed.

[rebelcommando1807]

Say, random question..

Think that you could do, say, example videos? Where people send in their aircraft and you say what\'s good, what\'s bad, etc?

Just an idea, as I\'m sure most people have a question or three about their designs.

[White Owl]

Personally, I like trying to get it below 30 m/s for landing. The slower, the better. The plane will set down okay at higher speeds, but the faster you go the higher the chance of something breaking.

Yeah, how much tailfin you want is kind of a personal taste deal. I hate seeing the tail slip and skid around whenever I start a turn, and since flying with the keyboard instead of my usual joystick and rudder pedals means fine rudder control isn\'t possible, I added more vertical stabilizer until the tail naturally follows the nose without any rudder input at all.

Edit: ah, rebelcommando posted while I was typing.

I\'m really hoping some other airplane guys around here will chime in with advice about people\'s various designs. I\'m far from the most experienced and/or knowledgeable spaceplane designer in these parts. I\'m just the guy who knows how to make videos and ain\'t microphone shy!

Yeah, I like the idea of featuring other people\'s planes... BUT I already have four unfinished video series in progress. It would be a mistake to add a fifth. At least until some of the others reach natural conclusions.

[rebelcommando1807]

Well, actually, I have a couple of designs.. One of which I came up with after watching your video.

It\'s a bit of a bigger craft, using RCS to help landings, though it\'s not needed.. I don\'t think. >.>;

Uses a pod from the NovaPunch pack, and the 2-in-1 MK2 engine mount from the Tiberion\'s pack ( http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=4435.0 ), otherwise it\'s just normal C7 stuff.

(T-65X)

Yes, it uses ASAS.. Partially because I can\'t hold attitude worth anything. Also have one of the smallest aircraft I have ever made, uses the skids and pontoons from the HSTW Landing Beacons & Amphibious Gear ( http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=4873.0 ), as well as the Aerospike engine from CaptianSlug\'s assorted parts ( http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=2251.0 ).

(SkyRunner)

Generally found that having the light slope, then the rectangle, then some tanks and another engine works quite well, and offers a bit more space for part attachment like, say, diagonal stabilizers. Or wheels. I tend to put a SAS module on the end, then the little nosecone thing to make it look kinda like an intake. Just a normal SAS, no fancy ASAS. I don\'t put those things anywhere with symmetry.

[Tim_Barrett]

Feel free to observe perfect vehicles with downloads!

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=5127.0

[White Owl]

Just a note that the tutorial video series is now completed, and the first post updated with links to the videos, and .craft files of the planes used. This was a very fun project!

8)

[Dr_Pockets]

Could you put up the Trainer 2 with the Vertical Takeoff RCS stuff? It looks really cool but I am bad at making things neatly.

EDIT: I sort of realized how to do it with the translate buttons. But instead of the plane, could someone just tell me how to actually hover with text?

2nd Edit:Is it a different plane that is used to hover than the Trainer 2? If so, could someone put up the modified Trainer 2?

[White Owl]

I recall the craft file I uploaded differs slightly from the video, in that I placed the RCS tanks in the back instead of the front. It should still be able to hover, though.

Sometimes the planes kind of stick to the ground, even though they have more than enough thrust to hover. In that case, usually adding just enough throttle to get moving will unstick them.

[Velociraptor121]

I watch your Youtube channel. You are awesome at the game, even if your landing on the moon failed.

[Goddess Bhavani]

ASAS is not only useful as an attitude hold autopilot, it also allows you to:

1. act as a \'fly by wire\' to control otherwise unstable fighter-like ships, especially those modelled after real aircraft.

2. control your aircraft at high alpha (high angles of attack) without risk of spinning out, stalling, etc. Especially great to setup a gliding attitude before the runway, engage ASAS and it glides in like flying an ILS approach

With regards to centre of gravity (CG) and centre of lift (CL) discussions, my findings are more or less identical to the earlier-stated.

My only advise is try and design something with a proven-in-reality airfoil profile so troubleshooting is logical and surgical. You could very well jump right to creating a monster spaceplane in the form of a tandem multiplane with 8 Ekranoplan style engines in the nose but... without a reference point for performance and flight characteristics, troubleshooting for a C7 beginner is almost impossible.

I\'d rather gain some experience designing something small and functional first, then evolve said design into more advanced and capable variants, such as how the successful F-16 spurred an interesting and radical F-16XL delta wing prototype for longer range and higher payload capacity.

My first \'sharable\' C7 release is an example of an ASAS-reliant ship with a based-on-reality planform, which is tricky to fly manually without a joystick, especially where missiles are carried. Consider it a Kerbalese rendition of the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter:

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=6097.0

It does have a tricky flight profile and requires 10 to 30 degree AoA to maintain level flight until enough fuel/ordnance is expended, but in terms of it being a point defence interceptor or light attack craft it\'s more or less true to life with the real F-104... which for a time did suffer a high accident rate as well. Not easy to fly.

However, ASAS has its limitations

1. It uses \'full opposite lock\' for attitude correction. This is fine for a small, 1 to 3 engine aircraft. For a very long spaceplane with multiple stages, you will face problems with the hamfisted ASAS flight corrections shaking the ship to pieces. The solution here is to either review the thrust/mass/CoG balance of the vehicle and make it more stable, or reduce the number of flight control surfaces.

This is where you use the SAS module instead, which acts more like a \'fly by wire\' system and keeps the craft flying straight. Although it does not actively intervene with flight controls, it does act like an \'inertial damper\' to reduce or eliminate local vibrations or oscillations in flight.

During flight on an unstable vehicle like the below (see video link) 'X3' early low altitude Mach 1 sprint attempt, note that I use the ASAS only during Stage 1 of the flight, to stabilise the unstable and non-rigid solid rocket boosters positioned way out in the back with their own flight controls.

During Stages 2 and 2.5 I use the cockpit-mounted SAS to assist with keeping a stable flight control, with manual stick input to control the direction of the craft (proper fly by wire workability!)

To unload the wings for the final nosedive to break the sound barrier, I simply release the stick and the deliberately unstable airframe does the job diving down in a terminal dive.

Lastly, this ship is so unstable that to deploy the recovery parachute in the correct attitude, just do a Pugachev\'s Cobra or Herbst maneuver with a short burst of your final 1% of rocket fuel

To demonstrate deliberate instability, and use of ASAS for temporary stage stabilisation, and SAS for 'relaxed stability control', perhaps this video would be useful:

I didn\'t break the \'land speed record\' in the contest, it being won by unrealistic designs with much greater thrust to mass ratio, but I had fun planning out the design of the 3 stage sprinter and designing a customised flight profile with certain procedures to make use of the design\'s flaw - namely, the seemingly random pitch changes, and the unconventional airfoil profile.

[Astronollogistic]

Hello. I want open Trainer 03 Mothership.craft but it wont open and there show witch program i open and winRAR dont work. Please help.

[Katalliaan]

Hello. I want open Trainer 03 Mothership.craft but it wont open and there show witch program i open and winRAR dont work. Please help.

How are you trying to open it? The proper way to use a .craft is by dropping it in your /Ships directory in your KSP folder, and open it by loading it in-game (either in the VAB or by clicking the launch pad while in the Space Center view).

[Melfice]

Fair chance you\'re using Firefox?

Use Internet Explorer to download the file, and then plonk it down in the proper folder.

There\'s some sort of incompatibility between the forums and Firefox that causes all downloads to end up being 'index.php'.