Battlestar Viper Mk II -- VTOL SSTO

[The Destroyer]

I know what I'm taking to Laythe

[Cruzan]

It depends on the job they are designed to do. Most of them the wings are actually pretty much standard sized. Not trying to hijack the thread but here are two that are VERY different but work quite well.

Those look sweet! I wouldn't have guessed they would work with FAR since I was told you had to be super aero minded when using that mod, but moar power is never a bad thing . You can get lift with even the smallest wings if you're moving fast enough! Are you able to land with air-breathing engines on Duna, or do you need help from rockets since the air is so thin? That's a planet I haven't gone to yet

thanks to your youtube video for basics of building I think its all possible (didn't know about holding shift to slowly control rotation of parts)

Got designs on paper for both a single shuttle transfer ring sitting at about 20 parts all up and a dual shuttle transfer ring sitting at around 50 parts all up, my usual launch systems with some modification should be able to get 2-3 single rings into orbit at once or 1 dual ring, just need to get back in game so I can work out if I have enough fuel for an aired planet transfer, refuel of shuttle and return to kerbin, this will allow long range shuttle trips to other planets in one hit

Woot! I'm glad the vid helped someone . Those rings sound awesome and the low part count aspect makes me even more anxious to see them!

I know what I'm taking to Laythe

Send pics when you get there. I'd be curious to see what contraptions people use to push their smaller SSTO's to other planets, such as the rings Lojik is talking about designing.

Flying SSTO's around Laythe is a blast btw, especially if you can see Jool while you're doing it!

[Hodo]

Those look sweet! I wouldn't have guessed they would work with FAR since I was told you had to be super aero minded when using that mod, but moar power is never a bad thing . You can get lift with even the smallest wings if you're moving fast enough! Are you able to land with air-breathing engines on Duna, or do you need help from rockets since the air is so thin? That's a planet I haven't gone to yet

Air breathing engines only work on Laythe and Kerbin, but you can use Kethane turbines on Duna if need be, I haven't tested them out yet so I am not sure about the viability of them.

With the VSO-3 I have 2 airbreathers for every one rocket engine. But it still has a higher than 2:1 thrust to weight ratio on Duna. Eve is the only world I don't think the VSO-3 won't work on.

But the SVO-9A only has rocket engines for its VTOL engines. On Kerbin it has a 1.01:1 thrust to weight ratio. Which is more than enough once you get to lower gravity worlds like Duna.

Almost all of my VTOL SSTOs use rockets for the VTOL engines, it gives a faster response when you need to quickly change something but the trade off is they are often heavier, and use considerably more fuel.

Most of my VTOLs in the SVO line use 10-20% of their fuel load on take off. The SVO-9A is the most efficient only using 9-10%. And with each generation they get better.

[Cruzan]

Ya I need to branch in to VTOL with rockets so I can go to air-less planets. I just hate how inefficient they are

[Hodo]

Ya I need to branch in to VTOL with rockets so I can go to air-less planets. I just hate how inefficient they are

They are that. But I have found a use for Aerospikes. They end up being my VTOL boosters and that is it. Even then they are often to heavy to be really decent, they barely manage better than a 1.16:1 thrust to weight ratio.

But the LV-T45s aren't bad, they have great thrust to weight ratio but are SO LONG, so you have to mount them a bit higher up. This has to side affects one good one bad. One it keeps the center of mass near in line with the middle of the aircraft, so no need to tweak your fuel loads to balance it out. But on the other hand, they often look quite ugly when done that way.

[Lojik]

Yer I can see them being an issue if you have a thin profile SSTO, the larger stockier profiles will probably be fine with them, do you know where the physical thrust box is on the LV-T45's? how much of the cone can be hidden before thrust is lost? or do we have to have the entire cone unrestricted.

[Hodo]

Not sure, I can do some testing to find out. But I think the whole bell of it needs to be clear. Unlike the Aerospike which can be pretty much 75% obscured and it still not affect anything around it.

[Cruzan]

But the LV-T45s aren't bad, they have great thrust to weight ratio but are SO LONG, so you have to mount them a bit higher up. This has to side affects one good one bad. One it keeps the center of mass near in line with the middle of the aircraft, so no need to tweak your fuel loads to balance it out. But on the other hand, they often look quite ugly when done that way.

I usually clip my engines through the fuel tanks vertically, as the tank walls don't restrict thrust for some reason. It's a neat way to tuck them in without sticking out like an eye sore

Also, the Viper made the front page of the KSP subreddit today Not a bad day imo.

Old pic, I'm #2 now

Edited October 25, 2013 by Cruzan

[Cruzan]

Working on a Mk VII. It's definitely a lot tougher than the Mk II trying to get a more "aerodynamic feel."

Here's what I'm designing towards:

I'll keep you posted

[Lojik]

Good luck

[soulreaver1981]

how do you get the big youtube link????

[Cruzan]

@Lojik Thanks!

@ soulreaver Are you asking about the embedded video? I can give you the message board code that I used for it:

Insert video URL here[/video

An example of the one I used in the OP:

[/video

You can see how the end of the video URL is also what is used in the first set of brackets.

Fill in the appropriate areas and add a ] bracket to the end of the code and you'll be set!

Edited November 5, 2013 by Cruzan

[panzer1b]

nice job

its got alot of errors when it comes to actually being a replica, but since its stock parts that can be understood (for a stock craft its amazing looks wise, you just need to do something about the guns which are sortof its issue, real vipers had missiles under the ship, only the autocannons were near wings, so if its somehow possible move missiles to underbelly, and make wing guns just look like a gun as the stock game lacks any autocannons)

one more question, how on earth do i get this into space?

without using mods or cheats? cause ive built plenty of sstos, and while many failed, this one i just cant seem to get into orbit at all as is, i tried the shallow approach at high speed on pure jets, and ive also tried more rocket like trajectories, i can at best get it on a suborbital trajetory

i made a similar craft to this before i found this one, which flew and still flies great with enough spare fuel to get into orbit, deorbit, and a bit for maneuvering. it has 3 engines though (stacked in a similar way to this, but i used the smaller rocket engines the ones with 30kn thrust), only recently did i make it a bit better by adding a vtol jet in a similar fashion to your viper, so now it lost a bit of fuel to get the extra weight in orbit, but it can land reliably now and not have to rely on some crazy landing patterns as the craft like this isnt designed with anywhere near enough lift to land traditionally.

anyways, i know its likely me, but nomatter what i do (tried different ways to manage air intakes, different trajectories, different combinations of engines), i just cant get this thing into a stable orbit and deorbit....

could someone tell me what the optimal way to orbit this thing without a resource regenerator is?

also, what mod do you use for the targeting crosshair? i could really use something like that when im minigun straffing things or generic shooting

Edited December 10, 2013 by panzer1b

[Cruzan]

Thanks! Ya I would like to get it to match up more with the actual looks, but since it came out looking pretty cool anyways I figured it was alright

I really wish there was a stock autocannon for KSP, but I doubt we'll ever get actual weapons added to the stock parts list haha. I originally just had a mini i-beam with a RTG on the end for lookalike cannons that actually looks pretty good. I opted for missiles though just so I could blow stuff up!

Adding missiles to the underbelly would be doable, but might not look so great. I can mess it with after Finals week.

As for the ascent profile. Did you watch the second video in the first post of the thread? It's a little long, but I take the civilian version of the Viper, the Kittyhawk, on two round trips to orbit without refueling. I give some basic guidelines in the video as well which might help you out.

If you're still struggling getting to orbit let me know and I'll see if I can give you more specifics of how to get it to orbit reliably!

And the crosshairs were just added in via video editing. I'm not sure fi there are crosshair mods that behave the same way, but I wouldn't doubt it.

[panzer1b]

Thanks! Ya I would like to get it to match up more with the actual looks, but since it came out looking pretty cool anyways I figured it was alright

I really wish there was a stock autocannon for KSP, but I doubt we'll ever get actual weapons added to the stock parts list haha. I originally just had a mini i-beam with a RTG on the end for lookalike cannons that actually looks pretty good. I opted for missiles though just so I could blow stuff up!

Adding missiles to the underbelly would be doable, but might not look so great. I can mess it with after Finals week.

As for the ascent profile. Did you watch the second video in the first post of the thread? It's a little long, but I take the civilian version of the Viper, the Kittyhawk, on two round trips to orbit without refueling. I give some basic guidelines in the video as well which might help you out.

If you're still struggling getting to orbit let me know and I'll see if I can give you more specifics of how to get it to orbit reliably!

And the crosshairs were just added in via video editing. I'm not sure fi there are crosshair mods that behave the same way, but I wouldn't doubt it.

ok well thx, i did get it into orbit once doing what you did, but it does take a lot of time and very precise trajectory/throttle control, and im still trying to get it into orbit twice, maybee im just not that used to SSTOs yet as i tended to do more rockets/giant warships ect before.

Still i did make a few successful SSTOs, best one byfar is my Tri-Fighter II, basically similar basic design to a viper, with 3 engines, and being well way shorter and much lighter weight. Now i just cant get my blasted HK-R design to work, guess something based on a heavy raider just doesnt fly without cylon engine tech.....

i actually went and made my own viper design (or should i say modified my preexisting Tri-Fighter II), flies much better in my opinion, and all 3 engines opernate all the time, or at least can operate, but its a bit too heavy currently and the vtol doesnt like me. It also doesnt rely on as many intales as yours has, has about 15 intakes total and i somehow got it in orbit twice, still had almost enough fuel for a 3rd time...... maybee if i actually flew it well i could squeeze a bit more out of it, or if i spammed even more intakes

also, i think it may be a bit heavy, but try out DYJ's minigun mod for now, it fires red tracers which is a added bonus to fit the actual viper (though 2 of em would weight 2 tons, may be a bit much for a already burdened design)

also, your center of gravity is way to low in my opinion as you cannot utilize all engines (forced to use just 2 which does sortof limit its acceleration and climb preformance). I solved this issue in my viper design by massively increasing fuel capacity on the top engine. I sortof stacked fuel tanks up top, only way to get CG high enough to allow the use of 3 engines at full power without requiring reaction wheel spamming to counter the torque. Though not sure how the real BSG viper flew, unless it has some extremely heavy stuff in the top engine pod, there is no way that thing would be capable of flying straight without some insane amount of reaction wheels. Its CG is way to low based on where the body mass appears to be, and they appeared to have all engines at the same thrust in the series, so guess they had some unfathomable tech such as anti gravity correction.

Ill prolly upload my Viper II version sometime once i fix its lack of weapons issue, its influenced by your design a bit here and there, but it flies faster, has much improved operating range, and in my opinion is much easier to get into orbit without requiring very precise intake/engine control (and it doesnt require so many intakes, even if its more efficient to have em anyways). Has 550 oxidizer and enough jet fuel to circle kerbin a few times. Now i just need a working carrier for these, my original failed hard, not a fan of designs that cant lift off the ground at all without anti-gravity mods, or console cheats.

[Cruzan]

I'm interested in seeing what your designs look like! I've been fiddling with making a Mk VII and failing at trying to make anything remotely cylon related.

I agree though about the engines. I think most spacecraft from TV or movies would have a hard time flying without some "magic" tech being involved. From what I could see from a few pics (prob just fan art though) was that the top engine is actually slightly smaller than the two side engines. That's why I went with the Basic Jet up top because it looks smaller, even though this actually works against me as it has more thrust in low atmo, making matters worse haha xD. As it stands, I only use it for gaining altitude in a hurry, and any flying done even remotely horizontal means it needs to be turned off.

If you ever get around to posting your Viper or HK-R let me know, I'd love to see em!

[panzer1b]

I'm interested in seeing what your designs look like! I've been fiddling with making a Mk VII and failing at trying to make anything remotely cylon related.

I agree though about the engines. I think most spacecraft from TV or movies would have a hard time flying without some "magic" tech being involved. From what I could see from a few pics (prob just fan art though) was that the top engine is actually slightly smaller than the two side engines. That's why I went with the Basic Jet up top because it looks smaller, even though this actually works against me as it has more thrust in low atmo, making matters worse haha xD. As it stands, I only use it for gaining altitude in a hurry, and any flying done even remotely horizontal means it needs to be turned off.

If you ever get around to posting your Viper or HK-R let me know, I'd love to see em!

i will get it up on spaceport as soon as i can fix its instability at high speeds issue (its almost impossible to fly without asas on atm), just doesnt want to fly perfectly straight, if i cant get it fixed, ill give u a private link and maybee you can fix its issues regarding the stability

also as for the later viper model VII, no clue how thats doable in KSP, its just that there are many parts of it that are more or less impossible to do with stock parts (namely we dont have a thin enough nose, the engines in KSP are too big for it, ect. Maybee a purely aspheitic model can be done, but to actually make it fly isnt gonna be easy at all. And yeah, cylon tech is impossible until the game makes wings reversible and not glitch physics if backwards ect. heavy raider may be doable, as my HK-R is at least semi flyable in its current state (even if its stability is very bad, and it doesnt have all features done like the hex gun mount and the oddly placed engine pods), but the regular raider cant be made without some wings that would function backwards or sideways

how do i upload pictures of my stuff here anyways? no option but from URL, and my images are on computer?

here is a link to my upload: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/tri-fighter-iii-d-bsg-viper-mk-ii-stock-8/

Edited December 13, 2013 by panzer1b

[SoldierBoy027]

Wow! BSG is one of my favorite series, great job they look amazing!!!

[Cruzan]

i will get it up on spaceport as soon as i can fix its instability at high speeds issue (its almost impossible to fly without asas on atm), just doesnt want to fly perfectly straight, if i cant get it fixed, ill give u a private link and maybee you can fix its issues regarding the stability

also as for the later viper model VII, no clue how thats doable in KSP, its just that there are many parts of it that are more or less impossible to do with stock parts (namely we dont have a thin enough nose, the engines in KSP are too big for it, ect. Maybee a purely aspheitic model can be done, but to actually make it fly isnt gonna be easy at all. And yeah, cylon tech is impossible until the game makes wings reversible and not glitch physics if backwards ect. heavy raider may be doable, as my HK-R is at least semi flyable in its current state (even if its stability is very bad, and it doesnt have all features done like the hex gun mount and the oddly placed engine pods), but the regular raider cant be made without some wings that would function backwards or sideways

how do i upload pictures of my stuff here anyways? no option but from URL, and my images are on computer?

here is a link to my upload: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/tri-fighter-iii-d-bsg-viper-mk-ii-stock-8/

Ya it's tough to get the nose right for sure. I've got something that looks remotely aerodynamic for a nose, just needs some more tweaking.

Maybe the new addition of tweakable control surfaces in .23 will help with cylon raider design problems? We can only hope

The best way to upload pics is to upload them to imgur. Here is a link to a post that explains everything you need to know! http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/36010-Introducing-the-Ability-to-Embed-Imgur-Albums!

Wow! BSG is one of my favorite series, great job they look amazing!!!

Same here! Thanks a lot

[panzer1b]

here are a few pics of my Tri-Fighter G (its a F but with weapons, G is basically weaponized F model) armed with 30mm gunpods from a mod thats close to release

hopefully this shows the craft somewhat well, cockpit is still not done (i replaced it with just 2 pylons for looks and a rcs tank instead of windows

the F model is really as simple as i can get a semi viper II look alike to get. I sortof put preformace and part count as priorities here, lost a bit of looks, but those epic gunpods totally fit ALOT better then DYJ's minigun i used to use before i managed to get a mk108 gunpod model i made way back for another game but never used for anything to import to KSP.

Edited December 19, 2013 by panzer1b

[Cruzan]

Wow that's awesome! I like the way you did the wings better than the way I did. Very nice

It'd be cool to see it from more angles when you finish up the cockpit. I agree though, those gunpods look gooood

[Darndello]

(had to do that sorry)

How on Kerbin did you do something that good? You are !

The only thing I see missing from that is the numbers on the side! Much love.

[Cruzan]

Mother of God....That pic was huge

Thanks a lot! Ya I'm sure if I used the Kerb paint mod I could get it to look more realistic, but I wanted to keep it stock

[StainX]

Wow, that is one hell of awesome looking viper!

[Cruzan]

Thanks! I tested it recently and it still works as of v.23 so feel free to take it for a spin