The Grand 0.22 Discussion Thread

[Antikris]

Just a small tip: low orbit and high orbit around a planetary body appear to be different biomes where you can do separate experiments for the full bucket of points (and of course repeat for a reducing reward). Think about this before you circularize your craft into a low orbit of a foreign body: enter SOI at a low periaps, only burn as much insertion as is needed to establish a steep elliptical orbit, then do your experiments both at low periaps and high apoaps. It helps tremendously to have a load of battery packs (or solar panels) at this point for data transfer.

Then you can continue by either circularizing a low orbit / land at low fuel cost by burning at low velocity apoaps / escape orbit for your next stop by burning economically at your high velocity periaps.

I took my lightweight unmanned probe on a tour around Mun, Minmus and then out of Kerbal SOI this way, raking in hundreds and hundreds of science points. If I hadn't collected its science already I could have started the tour with one elliptical around Kerbin as well before starting my Mun transfer burn.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Antikris

[Bishop149]

A quick question

So both the following seem to be the case:

- Transmitted data is worth a hell of a lot less than a returned data (which makes some sense up to a point)

- Repeat measurements in the same location seem to devcreas in science value every time you do them.

So if the first reading taken is a location is transmitted does this count to reduce the value of a subsequent returned reading from that location?

If so I think they've messed up because no one would ever bother doing non-return missions.

Why would you, you both get less science for them and also bugger up the value of the more complicated return mission you might do later.

[ludsoe]

A quick question

So both the following seem to be the case:

- Transmitted data is worth a hell of a lot less than a returned data (which makes some sense up to a point)

- Repeat measurements in the same location seem to devcreas in science value every time you do them.

So if the first reading taken is a location is transmitted does this count to reduce the value of a subsequent returned reading from that location?

If so I think they've messed up because no one would ever bother doing non-return missions.

Why would you, you both get less science for them and also bugger up the value of the more complicated return mission you might do later.

Id love transmitted data be full value... BUT returned results get you back twice as much science. Makes me cringe when i only get 20 science from a 200 science test.

[Arran]

R&D onto itself is for most seasoned players just easy to accomplish, still for me (with over 400+ hours logged in KSP) i noticed in Career mode with limited parts, i had to do some rethinking on the way how i builded some rockets..

Now remember this is just the first installment of Career features, throw in an Economy, Production line for parts, crew expierence etc etc, things wil even get for seasoned players in time more and more of a challenge.

KSP isnt finished yet, (by far) but we now slowly getting an idear where its heading..

[CobraA1]

but if you close it again to make it safe for reentry you reset the container...

Do keep in mind that reentry effects currently do nothing - you don't really need to close it.

This is clearly awesome IMO . Sure, it's unfinished, sure it needs tweaking, but I wanna see what happens to my goo on all of the planets in the solar system now . And I need to get soil samples of them too. Maybe I'll complete the tech tree quickly, but it still opens up a lot of possibilities to explore.

And for those who like mods - this clearly opens up to mod authors the ability to create their own tech trees. I can't wait to see how mods will use this.

[Simon Ross]

Personally I think the devs have done a pretty awesome job with this update.

Sure, we can all complain that this and that didn't get added, that the career aspect is a bit simplistic, but lets be realistic, it's a work in progress.

As a few others have already mentioned, this update also adds a LOT of possibilities for the mod community. Personally I'm more interested in seeing what some of the very talented mod creators out there come up with over the coming months.

Simon

[FunkyNige]

Another quick question - how much science can you get with spaceplanes? I can take temperature readings from various places on Kerbal (haven't researched barometer yet) but the science you get from that is really low, and to be honest it's quicker launching a rocket in an ICBM style! Before I spend precious research points on the supersonic plane parts, will I get points for taking off/landing* with a plane?

* the closest I've managed to get to landing a plane so far is to put a parachute on the cockpit and 'eject' over the airfield, all other attempts have ended in a fireball...

[N_Molson]

The only thing I have to reproach to this update is that it comes with a small pack of annoying bugs, but I'm certain they will be patched soon. Also it was a long time since .21, and Squad certainly had to release something, even if not perfectly polished.

Gathering Science is a fun new goal. It pushes you to move forward and set ambitious objectives.

Concerning people that say "it's too easy", here are a few points to consider :

- Try without MechJeb or other mods that basically fly for you.

- Currently you can re-enter Kerbin with Goo canisters and experiments, but one day heating management will come, and retrieving the experiments will require a powered descent. Which means a much heavier and costly launch assembly. You will have to do with communications, and those apply huge penalties to the number of Science Points you gather.

- There is no money or parts availability limit right now. I doubt you will start with enough Kerbucks to build a monster stack that can reach Duna.

- Some things that make life a bit too easy are probably going to be fixed. Like directly transmitting data from the Farside of the Mun without using relay communication satellites (how does those radio waves get through the Mun ?!).

- The unlimited supply of Kerbonauts is not going to last forever. And I guess they will have to rest between missions, which will require a team if you want to launch missions continuously. Now you can do anything with Jeb only, but even that heroic guy has the right to sleep from time to time, not even speaking of vacations. Also, here again, they are kindly working for free now (and a few snacks), but this isn't going to last...

So yeah, really, work in progress, and the fact I already like what I see now makes me very optimistic for the future.

[brdavis]

OK, first post... I've not been playing long (like, about 2 weeks) and then 0.22 comes out. So, first... Wow. I'm already using the Demo 0.21 version in teaching university-level physics. And loving it. Now if I just didn't need to sleep... can we add that to the research tree?

Three things I've noticed...

1) The new SAS does seem to have some issues, but I'm not sure if it's the SAS or the way I've been treating it previously (not enough experience). Having it auto-set the mode (so I don't have to keep tapping "F" to unlock it and change position) seems to be a problem (overshoot/undershoot).

2) The LV-909 doesn't produce power... Did I just completely miss that in my previous experience, only noticing it now when power (for transmission of data) is so critical?

3) I still have trouble with "phantom throttle" - throttle off, hit "esc" to pause, come back later, unease... and the engine throttles back to full. Hitting "X" at this point cuts the engine, after which is mysteriously just ramps right back up to 100%. Throttling down to zero will shut it off again, but "X" will not in this mode. Is this just me, or a known problem (had it on 0.21 as well). Running under OSX (with nothing else running)

A thought on the science value transmitted vs. "hard returned" (but not too hard)... yeah, it's a little odd. I *want* to radio data back, because the #1 rule is usually "let the next guy know what killed you" - the actual sample is better, but as it stands there's not a lot of reason to "back up" these things with transmission. Maybe have the transmission give you 70% (or higher... I agree things like thermometer records should be 100%), and you gain an additional 30% if (not when) you land?

Sleep is for the weak, right?

--

Brian Davis

[Scarecrow88]

I think a structured path that Career mode offers is probably of more use to someone who is new to the game, and probably presents more of a challenge to an inexperienced player. It won't take an experienced player long to tick all the boxes so, apart from a few new extra parts, and a revamped KSC, Career mode probably won't offer much extra for a seasoned player.

[Rage097]

Another quick question - how much science can you get with spaceplanes? I can take temperature readings from various places on Kerbal (haven't researched barometer yet) but the science you get from that is really low, and to be honest it's quicker launching a rocket in an ICBM style! Before I spend precious research points on the supersonic plane parts, will I get points for taking off/landing* with a plane?

* the closest I've managed to get to landing a plane so far is to put a parachute on the cockpit and 'eject' over the airfield, all other attempts have ended in a fireball...

I have fooled with this idea before. I made an ICSM (InterContinental Scientific Missile) to land in the desert west of the KSC's continent. I have yet to make it. Planes are easier to get to one place.

[Kryssandra]

I'm loving the new update. ^.^

I know there are those who have the mad skills to max out the tech tree in three to five flights - and kudos to them - but even though I've been playing KSP from the beginning and know all the parts very well, my personal progression in .22 thus far has been very slow. This is probably due to the fact that I am taking my time and relearning the game from scratch. Playing with only Tier 0 parts really takes me back to the early alpha days, when we were trying to land on the Mun with no maneuver nodes or landing legs - just touching down on the engine cones or, a bit later, using the first winglets as landing struts. I'm really enjoying having to learn how to design simple rockets again, and how to use the parts available in unorthidox ways to achieve desired results. CM has forced me to learn to be more efficient, so I've benefited from it as well. With this as the example of where SQUAD is going with the CM, I'm really excited to see how the game continues to progress.

[Scrogdog]

Interesting comments.

I took a couple of months off because I moved and also got promoted at work.

This seems like a great time to return! Looking forward to flying .22 tonight and through the weekend! Even during Red Sox games!

[Rage097]

I've done some Goo research.

So Far...

On Kerbin:

-vibrates during ascent through the lower atmosphere.

-Gets colder in the higher atmosphere

-Forms into a sphere and becomes brittle in Low Kerbin Orbit.

-Feels 'right at home' in High Kerbin Orbit

Mun:

-Is denser in High Mun Orbit.

-Is 'right at home' in low Mun orbit.

I forget how it acts on Kerbin's surface on the launchpad.

[Lohan2008]

My hope is career mode will be broadened beyond what is offered in sandbox and (we) will have "future" technology available.

FTL/Warp Speed would be so sweet

[Rage097]

My hope is career mode will be broadened beyond what is offered in sandbox and (we) will have "future" technology available.

FTL/Warp Speed would be so sweet

Of course, FTL drives would need to require tons of power/fuel and would need to be very heavy and/or not very effienceint to balance the gameplay. Being able to slap a FTL onto a ship without cons would be incredibly OP

[Bagface145]

I really like the career update, but i would really like it if they had a whole update that is focused on career mode.

[Doc Anderson]

Love the direction of the update. I can't wait to see how it matures. And I LOVE that you have allowed the Chatterer mod in career mode. Chatterer adds a lot to the experience or playing KSP. I can understand not loading other mods in career mode as they would fundamentally alter gameplay, but can I ask you to consider including one other mod (or feature) in career mode? I would love to be able to access the Kerbal Engineer Redux (or similar) information windows. Specifically, things like delta V and TWR stats when designing ships and orbital and rendezvous info during flight.

Thanks. And thank you for all your hard work.

[KasperVld]

Doc Anderson: how mods hook into Career Mode is very much up to the mod authors.

[OneEyedShark]

I disagree with me ever posting anything in this topic, yet i have 4 post here...

Edited October 18, 2013 by OneEyedShark
First Edit: i>I Second Edit: First time: i>I Third Edit: First Edit: i>I Second Edit: First time: i>I (<Figure that out)

[KasperVld]

i disagree with me ever posting anything in this topic, yet i have 4 post here...

Other topics that discuss 0.22 are often merged into this thread, to unclutter the General Discussion forum a bit

[Shisouka]

i disagree with me ever posting anything in this topic, yet i have 4 post here...

Because this thread has been merged with the "how do YOU find the update" thread.

Ps. <3 science!

[OneEyedShark]

ok understand it a little then. why didn't you just delete it then ???

Ok ↓

Edited October 18, 2013 by OneEyedShark

[KasperVld]

ok understand it a little then. why didn't you just delete it then ???

Deleting them would also remove the content and there's no reason to do that

[EatVacuum]

Maybe because EA and Rockstar are companies worth hundreds of millions of dollars and can afford big server farms and Squad is a little indie company who can't? Boohoo, so you have wait a little longer for such a great game. Your sense of entitlement is amazing. You should be thanking Squad for doing such a great job, not griping if you can't get it in fifteen minutes or less.

Oops - this was in reply to someone whining about the first day download slowdown, but the quote went missing. Still, great job Squad. Illegitimi non carborundum!*

* Don't let the bastards grind you down!

Edited October 18, 2013 by EatVacuum