One sample per crew in capsules

[boolybooly]

I would like to suggest that where a single capsule can transport one sample a triple capsule should transport (at least) three samples otherwise you are at a disadvantage using the three kerbal capsule and no advantage. ie the three Kerbal capsule is pointless. Might as well use three single capsules, its lighter, stores more science and produces the same torque.

[Person012345]

Because before career mode the 3 man capsule was also pointless amirite?

I think this would be a terrible idea as a general rule frankly.

[DannySwish]

The single capsule can definitely hold more than one sample. I don't know how many, but you can store at least two different surface samples. Duplicates are deleted. Same goes for EVA reports.

[Crush]

Counter-Proposal:

Add a sample-capacity to each command pod which is independent of the number of crew. Less for plane cockpits, some for capsule-pods and lots for lander-cans (the interior model even has a box for surface samples).

Currently the 3-kerbal capsule hasn't much use because there is hardly a mission which can't be done by a single kerbal (and maybe a bunch of probe cores). But it might get more interesting when astronaut training gets more complex. Some missions might require lots of different skills, but you won't find a single kerbal who has every skill, so you need an especially trained pilot, a geologist, a driver, a mechanic...

Edited October 18, 2013 by Crush

[Vosper]

People are now looking at the game from a different perspective. In a Career mode there should be incentives to build things. Ie. In "career" mode the parts need to progress that path.

At the moment 3 man vs 1 man pods, in career mode no point.

It was used in Sandbox so why should it change is not a valid argument

[Person012345]

People are now looking at the game from a different perspective. In a Career mode there should be incentives to build things. Ie. In "career" mode the parts need to progress that path.

At the moment 3 man vs 1 man pods, in career mode no point.

It was used in Sandbox so why should it change is not a valid argument

Uh, no. If career were complete you -might- have a point. It's not. The tech tree and science isn't supposed to be an incentive to do X Y and Z. It's a limitation. Incentives for things other than science will come later.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Person012345

[lazarus1024]

Actually there is an incentive in career mode still. If you are "reckless" with your kerbals you have backups so your mission isn't kaput if you dust one of them.

I've had this happen, especially on rover missions in .21 where I managed to tip/flip a rover down a crater wall or something and lose the kerbal. A 2 man lander can meant that the whole mission wasn't lost.

[Crush]

The tech tree and science isn't supposed to be an incentive to do X Y and Z. It's a limitation. Incentives for things other than science will come later.

But it is an incentive to do things. Science and the tech tree are a reward-based game mechanic. When the player is successful at difficult tasks, they are rewarded with new parts to play with. Bringing a heavy 3-kerbal capsule somewhere is a harder task than doing the same with a lighter 1-kerbal capsule, so there should be a reward for doing so.

[Person012345]

But it is an incentive to do things. Science and the tech tree are a reward-based game mechanic. When the player is successful at difficult tasks, they are rewarded with new parts to play with. Bringing a heavy 3-kerbal capsule somewhere is a harder task than doing the same with a lighter 1-kerbal capsule, so there should be a reward for doing so.

As I said, this should be a different mechanic like money or something.When missions come no doubt they will need you to do 3 man things for more money. There is no real reason to limit science by capsule unless you think that kerbals carve their science onto stone tablets or something. This is not the mechanic you are looking for.

Just my opinion of course that incentivising larger capsules is not suited to the science mechanic.

[boolybooly]

Exactly Crush.

Your argument doesnt make sense to me Person012345, it appears to be self defeating.

The 3 Kerbal Capsule needs sorting out to make the tech tree play better, why wouldn't you want the larger more advanced and heavier capsule to carry more science back to Kerbin? In fact I will go further than that, because it is heavier than 3 Mk1 capsules, it should carry more samples, at least 6 samples, including repeat samples from one location as these still add science even if diminished with each repeat.

I am assuming that samples will get more science from being physically carried back. Would be nice if you could submit a sample to the materials bay for advanced analysis and send the analysis back to Kerbin.

[Person012345]

Exactly Crush.

Your argument doesnt make sense to me Person012345, it appears to be self defeating.

Do explain. Career mode is not done yet and there will be actual incentives to use 3 man parts beyond what incentives there already are (the same as have existed in every version to date) in the future - science should not be that incentive. What about that is contradictory.

Science should not be the main motivation in career mode, it should be something you do alongside the main motivation (missions and presumably money) in order to advance. We're at a stage where science is the only motivation in career mode because it's not finished and I think people are being too hasty by saying we need it to incentivise 3 man pods and so on. It doesn't.

[Awaras]

Exactly Crush.

Your argument doesnt make sense to me Person012345, it appears to be self defeating.

The 3 Kerbal Capsule needs sorting out to make the tech tree play better, why wouldn't you want the larger more advanced and heavier capsule to carry more science back to Kerbin? In fact I will go further than that, because it is heavier than 3 Mk1 capsules, it should carry more samples, at least 6 samples, including repeat samples from one location as these still add science even if diminished with each repeat.

I am assuming that samples will get more science from being physically carried back. Would be nice if you could submit a sample to the materials bay for advanced analysis and send the analysis back to Kerbin.

Also, we really need a way to transfer samples and science data between capsules. As it stands now, Apollo-style missions are impossible to do because you need to haul the lander capsule back to kerbin to get the most out of samples...

[Stargate525]

I don't know about the 3-man, but when I transmit crew reports from the 2-man lander can, the % shows as 200%. Incentive for reports, at least.

[toric5]

i think the solution would be to make a kind of resource out of samples, with two separate values. the volume/mass (would determine how much a container could carry, and their worth, (may need 2 values for science worth and monetary worth, once it gets added.)

[boolybooly]

Do explain. Career mode is not done yet and there will be actual incentives to use 3 man parts beyond what incentives there already are (the same as have existed in every version to date) in the future - science should not be that incentive. What about that is contradictory.

Science should not be the main motivation in career mode, it should be something you do alongside the main motivation (missions and presumably money) in order to advance. We're at a stage where science is the only motivation in career mode because it's not finished and I think people are being too hasty by saying we need it to incentivise 3 man pods and so on. It doesn't.

That does not mean science should not be an incentive, it just means that there will be other incentives as well. False premise.

Edited October 18, 2013 by boolybooly

[Person012345]

That does not mean science should not be an incentive, it just means that there will be other incentives as well. False premise.

Wat.

Did you not understand my post?