Can you guys show off your early career vehicles?

[RocketPilot573]

I've finally gotten my low tech Mun rocket working!

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[iDan122]

First Mun lander(3rd launch)

First station(8th launch)

[Rune]

There, I think I can show one of the earliest tech tree SSTO's. I got the plane parts, and I waited a bit for luxuries like wheels and electrical system, but it's all the same tier:

It handles great too! Though it makes orbit with just a wisp of fuel, it flies really, really good while in atmo. Perfectly stable and all that, and it only uses 1/3rd the aviation fuel to make orbit, so you have amazing crossrange when reentering. Full science compliment, too, or at least what I have unlocked. I need smaller fuel tanks. ^^'

As to the promised low-tech rockets, this is what I did my very first Mun trip in:

But it was kind of scary, without struts or an electrical system. This was much more elegant and efficient (probably interplanetary range), and I love the 1.5+.5 staging (no fuel lines!):

Rune. I'm a bit weirded out by the greyed out techs in my tree. Do you guys know what that's all about?

Edited October 20, 2013 by Rune

[Halsfury]

Vostok 1 with tier 3 parts only, As the game progressed I found that the first stage could lift science probes to the Mun an Minmus, I still haven't unlocked the Mainsail engine because I've reached a point where science is getting hard to get.

So far I've landed a probe on Eve and Duna, and a few manned sample returns and probe landings on the Mun and minmus.

I did a Dres flyby for science points but found that I didn't have Dv for landing, so I passed it by at a perigee of 33km

I don't have Nuclear engines yet so I am being kept in the inner system right now.

[dpraptor]

Rune. I'm a bit weirded out by the greyed out techs in my tree. Do you guys know what that's all about?

Nice ships! My ships seem to be a bit heavy and rather large, I am trying to get a smaller lighter one to use. I am going to post them later.

The grey techs are ones that require 2 prerequisites, one of which has not yet been researched. Once you research it, the grey-out one will be available.

Edited October 20, 2013 by dpraptor

[dpraptor]

** Note ** - I think this belongs in general discussion, can someone move it there??

I have to say that these designs are really great!! I started this thread because I have a lot of problems building smaller, more efficient vessels. I began with a few smaller vehicles which did their job well, but when it came to Mun, I found myself making these giant monstrosities just to get a landing and return.

Here is a brief history of my ship development. I am hoping to see a lot of ships that I can try and experiment with to see how to maximize my efficiency with minimal design. I have been playing this since around April 2013, and built hundreds of crafts, but always keep moving to larger sizes, while I see others getting there with much smaller craft. I still have not yet been past Mimus, and was hoping to see how you all do it without gigantic craft.

As you will see in the last pics, my attempts to get a lander on mun and back went to extreme sizes!! My 1st attempt with a smaller craft led to the lander not having enough fuel to return, so it is now stranded on Mun.

Here is the 1st two crafts, which did all the Kerbin biomes.

My Mun Orbiter did well, but I am sure I still made too large a craft:

This is the Mun lander that got stuck there, I am sure that I could have done this so much better and made an easy return, but earlier and smaller ship attempts I did only got into Mun orbit with not enough fuel to land. So poor Jeremiah is going to be there for a while!! Hope he brought some playing cards!!

This is the ship (Discovery!) that managed to land on Mun and return. I wanted a lot of science equipment, and I wanted to return them to Kerbal rather than transmit the data to get the full science. I did a lot of tests and had to keep making it larger as i saw that I needed more and more fuel with each test. This craft finally did the job, but used an enormous amount of fuel: The 3rd stage alone had 853 Tons and 76,080 fuel!! (Please don't laugh too hard!!!) I had 5 science units and 6 goo canisters.

It was fun to build and fly, but I want to see how minimal I can be with this!!

Here it is getting into orbit and landing on Mun, which went well, though it was tricky to rotate until I ditched the 3rd stage. But it flew into orbit quite well.

Here is the Mun lander, 9 rockets! 5 of them had the Science pods. The only thing I did wrong was not attach parachutes to the ones I jettisoned!! One of them survived the fall so I did recover it, but I will add parachutes so i can drop them close to the surface and recover all of them. I think with further planets I will use the transmit.

So I will look at all the other ships here and experiment a bit to see how you get to other planets/moons with smaller ships. Thank you all for posting, I hope to learn a lot about better efficiency. Can you post some pics of ships going to further planets? If I made a ship this big just to get to Mun, I can't begin to imagine what I will build to get to Jool!! (Double Face Palm!)

And Rune, thanks for the link to your craft files, I really appreciate that, as I will test your vehicles and see what I have been doing so wrong!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited October 20, 2013 by dpraptor

[Rune]

** Note ** - I think this belongs in general discussion, can someone move it there??

I have to say that these designs are really great!! I started this thread because I have a lot of problems building smaller, more efficient vessels. I began with a few smaller vehicles which did their job well, but when it came to Mun, I found myself making these giant monstrosities just to get a landing and return.

Here is a brief history of my ship development. I am hoping to see a lot of ships that I can try and experiment with to see how to maximize my efficiency with minimal design. I have been playing this since around April 2013, and built hundreds of crafts, but always keep moving to larger sizes, while I see others getting there with much smaller craft. I still have not yet been past Mimus, and was hoping to see how you all do it without gigantic craft.

As you will see in the last pics, my attempts to get a lander on mun and back went to extreme sizes!! My 1st attempt with a smaller craft led to the lander not having enough fuel to return, so it is now stranded on Mun.

[...]

So I will look at all the other ships here and experiment a bit to see how you get to other planets/moons with smaller ships. Thank you all for posting, I hope to learn a lot about better efficiency. Can you post some pics of ships going to further planets? If I made a ship this big just to get to Mun, I can't begin to imagine what I will build to get to Jool!! (Double Face Palm!)

And Rune, thanks for the link to your craft files, I really appreciate that, as I will test your vehicles and see what I have been doing so wrong!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually I didn't put the files up, if you want I could upload the SSTO, but the other rockets are simple enough to recreate from pictures (and not that polished, really, they just did their job collecting early science). Now that I'm starting to bombard the Mun with lots of missions I've come up with more efficient approaches. But I can comment a bit on your problems, and tell you how I go about them with the practical example of a Mun mission. Here goes:

First, those are humongous landers. And the weight of the last stage is the main factor in how big the final rocket is, I tell you (and math does so, too!). A good method for keeping weight under control is to build your ship in the reverse order of your mission. First, how much delta-v does the last stage need? Well, for Mun and Minmus, landing, taking off and coming back to kerbin is about 1.5km/s, easy to do in one stage with ample margins at a mass ratio lower than 3...

Wait, you know what mass ratio is, right? Just in case, a quick definition. Mass ratio is total mass divided by dry mass, and a crucial component of the rocket equation. Which, because of science and stuff, gives the most efficient results at mass ratio "e" (2.7something).

If you increase you mass ratio much above 3, you will still gain some performance, but your are walking into the land of diminishing returns and the rest of your rocket will skyrocket in size, so better to stage the trip. As I said, 1.5km/s is dirt simple (for easy mental reference mass ratio 2.7 gives deltaV=isp*10m/s, and that in ksp is about 3-4km/s), so the last stage can use a single T-400 fuel tank and get a lot of science to the Mun surface and back. Getting to Mun itself is about another km/s, one a half with orbital insertion and some maneuvers and inefficiencies. So call that another stage that could perhaps circularize too on kerbin insertion (and keep space clean). And the rest is the 4 and something km/s to get to kerbin orbit, a job that two stages at roughly mass ratio 3 can do without problems (at this point I usually just count tanks and ignore payload and engine weight, so considerably lower than 3 actually but it's dirt simple to calculate: each stage twice the tanks it has on top of it)....

Total number of stages to Mun, four, just like in your crafts minus the SRB's. But each gives the same amount of delta-v, and each is close-ish to the theoretical ideal of "e", so they are the most efficient way to go about it. And with the margins I took at each stage, particularly the last ones, I have plenty of room to screw up or do additional objectives.

Interplanetary is pretty much the same, only the budget for the transit stage is sometimes just a bit higher (Duna, Eve, Jool) and sometimes so much more it can mean a whole other stage (Moho), and the lander requirements vary wildly. Return is also much more difficult. But you could rack up some serious science with a 2-4km/s departure stage with a decent lander going for the easy places where you can aerobrake. 4 will actually give you return options from a lot of places if you know how to aerobrake efficiently and park in high eccentricity orbits, and that is very doable on chemical engines (with 909's and poodles, mass ratio 3).

Rune. Said the guy with the least interplanetary experience in the bunch ^^'

Edited October 20, 2013 by Rune

[dpraptor]

I usually just count tanks and ignore payload and engine weight, so considerably lower than 3 actually but it's dirt simple to calculate: each stage twice the tanks it has on top of it).... Rune. Said the guy with the least interplanetary experience in the bunch ^^'

Hmm... I was going to like a dozen separate quotes with comments and additional questions...... hahah - Naaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!

I have an elementary understanding about mass ratio and delta V - not enough to fully comprehend everything you said. And I imagine I have a lot of reading to do to fully catch up on this. But i can understand about the doubling of tanks per stage!!!

For now I will look at the images people left here and reproduce them and see how they fly. If you have any good ships that can make to further planets and back, I would like to see them, and play around with the design.

But thank you for your help in trying to get me to understand how it works!!

I will keep trying to learn from what i see, and later get a better understanding of the physics. (been a while since college!)

[dpraptor]

a mass ratio lower than 3...

Wait, you know what mass ratio is, right? Just in case, a quick definition. Mass ratio is total mass divided by dry mass, and a crucial component of the rocket equation. Which, because of science and stuff, gives the most efficient results at mass ratio "e" (2.7something).

If you increase you mass ratio much above 3, you will still gain some performance, but your are walking into the land of diminishing returns and the rest of your rocket will skyrocket in size, so better to stage the trip. As I said, 1.5km/s is dirt simple (for easy mental reference mass ratio 2.7 gives deltaV=isp*10m/s, and that in ksp is about 3-4km/s), so the last stage can use a single T-400 fuel tank and get a lot of science to the Mun surface and back.

I'd like to understand this: total mass divided by dry mass, but what is dry mass? Total mass must be the total weight? By adding everything up? Dry mass is after the fuel burns?

I think might give me some understanding if I understand that, if it is explainable in terms I can get.

Thanks for any help you can give!!

[Rune]

I'd like to understand this: total mass divided by dry mass, but what is dry mass? Total mass must be the total weight? By adding everything up? Dry mass is after the fuel burns?

I think might give me some understanding if I understand that, if it is explainable in terms I can get.

Thanks for any help you can give!!

Ok, that's simple. Dry mass is what you get when you run the tanks dry. In other words, weight of the vehicle minus fuel (but only the fuel that stage uses, of course). And total mass is the mass that stage has, including payload and upper stages, when you first light it. So in simple terms, a mas ratio of 3 means that of every 3 tons your spacecraft has when you light a stage, 2 of those are fuel for that stage.

And if you want to go really, really pro about it, the correct formula for deltaV is as follows: DeltaV=9.81*Isp*Ln(Mass ratio). But it turns out Ln(MR) (natural logarithm of the mass ratio) equals 1 when MR=2.7something="e", and that's easy to work in your head. How I use it when I want a quick answer: put it into the windows calculator, hit the ln button. Then multiply by the isp of your engine, and then by 9.81 (g), and the result is the exact delta-v of that stage. It takes like 5 seconds, the difficult part is figuring out your weight, and there, you no longer need kerbal engineer to do it for you (which is, admittedly, even faster).

Rune. See? It's so simple you are going to learn without trying. Good for you!

[FlandersNed]

This ship here got me to Minmus and back!

Javascript is disabled. View full album

It was pretty close, though.

[Takelmeifter]

That was my take on radial decouplers without actually having them, it worked quite well. the trussing held up and I've had a 0 kerbal fatality rate from those flights. I've got decouplers now though which is sad as I kinda like this way

[Nephf]

Scott Manley:

[laggerd]

my minmus mun flyby'er

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edited October 22, 2013 by laggerd

[Arbitre]

Unfortunately, this thing has not even gotten to LKO due to some weird control problem (as you can probably tell from the picture). It's as if the 24 trust vectoring engines are not responding to my (and the SAS's) commands...

You might try toggling off all but the center rocket gimble in your stage action group to help with the control problem, RocketPilot573. Sometimes less is more.

[Brofessional]

Gets at least a Mun flyby and return with tier 0 parts, could probably do Minmus too, but I haven't tried it.

[128MB]

Gets at least a Mun flyby and return with tier 0 parts, could probably do Minmus too, but I haven't tried it.

I tried a rocket like that, it got me on minmus and back once i had legs on it also landed on the mun with only 2 types of engines and about 5 command pods for power xD

But i forgot to take pics now im kinda on ideas to get science, i don not have any experience getting to other planets.

[antbin]

Here's my latest craft, this time Tier 0 (since that's what the cool kids are doing):

Javascript is disabled. View full album

>> .craft file <<

[Abexuro]

I didn't have wheels yet, but I wanted to make a plane... What's the logical next step? Why off course a VTOL!

Taking off goes reasonably well, a fast straight up launch is safest, though slow hover is possible too.

Transition to flying is good.

Landing... needs some getting used to, really dependent on the pilot whether you crash or land.

[Heliopause]

Made this on my first day of sciencing:

I've landed it on Mün and Minmus and flied it to low Sun orbit successfully. On the Mün and Minmus landings it also had enough fuel to return to Kerbin. Next stop is going to be Eve or Duna, though I think it won't be able to make it back to Kerbin from either one.

[AmpsterMan]

I haven't even made it past tier 3 yet. :cries:

[Rune]

I didn't have wheels yet, but I wanted to make a plane... What's the logical next step? Why off course a VTOL!

Dammit, why didn't I thought of that? It was logical! VTOLSSTO! I could have had an airbreathing SSTO even sooner...

I haven't even made it past tier 3 yet. :cries:

Exploit those kerbin biomes! With a simple two-stage suborbital craft you can visit ice, mountains, grasslands, shores, desert and highlands to get 6 different sciency places, run all experiments three times recovering the craft (that is, put three copies of each on the craft to do it in one go), and six flights later, you will have a boopload of science, enough to get to tier 4-5. Low and high orbits and upper atmosphere make another three biomes without getting into lunar flights, and they score even more science individually. Then there's the Mun, where each biome is a lot of science points, and you have all the big craters to visit (they got names! ...sort of). Remember to recover the crafts to maximize the scientific return! And that 3 times the same experiment maxes out the return.

Rune. Because VTOL SSTO would have been easy to pull off without turbojets and ram intakes. Sure. I'm nothing if not optimistic ^^'

Edited October 24, 2013 by Rune

[Starwhip]

This is my first Mun lander in Career Mode. At least I think it was. I'm pretty sure, there were a lot of failed attempts, you see..