.22 playtesting being waylaid by mods?

[FEichinger]

Hello there, guys

You have had a couple of moderators posting in here already, so I'm keeping this relatively short.

Unlike that other thread, this time the thread was derailed towards this topic - remember: originally, this was just about whether or not mods undermine the developed tech tree, not at all about the properties of the tech tree - and this time it's mostly the side that disagrees with the development direction that gets out of line here. There's no need for namecalling (our usual suspect "fanboy" and some other stuff), and there's most certainly no need to drop insults left and right about fellow users and their opinions (no, they're not just because you disagree with them). So, I'm just gonna repeat what I said the last time: If you can voice these concerns in a decent, clean and concise manner that's a great resource to point people at. Telling everyone they're stupid is not the way to go.

And, I feel like I have to say this again, I certainly do agree with some of the points raised. I'm just not going to allow this tone here, simple as that. It goes without saying that this applies to both sides - There's no need to call every criticism "whining" right off the bat either.

FEichinger

[zarniw00p]

It's apparent that a lot of people are concerned about the direction development is heading (or not heading) at the moment. A lot of the points raised are valid concerns and locking threads definitely isn't the right way to deal with this issue. But I agree that discussion should take place in a respectful way.

[AlternNocturn]

It's apparent that a lot of people are concerned about the direction development is heading (or not heading) at the moment. A lot of the points raised are valid concerns and locking threads definitely isn't the right way to deal with this issue. But I agree that discussion should take place in a respectful way.

A lot of points are valid in this thread, but a few sound like pointless entitlement, as if Squad's work is "lazy" just because the game isn't hard enough. "Hey guys, I've got an idea, let's make the game as pointlessly complicated for no reason!" "but wouldn't that hurt sales?" "Who cares? We have a small percentage of a dedicated fanbase to cater to. Forget the potential millions of cash in the game and the wide educational outreach we could have! Let's add more numbers and make it impossible to play casually!!"

Let's just keep in mind that Minecraft didn't become popular because it had hyper-realistic graphics and 100% accurate real-life crafting mechanics. KSP is already hard enough as it is. I don't want to see this game suffer because a small vocal minority wanted the game to be super hard.

As for the OP, this thread is already far too derailed so I'm afraid I won't be responding to it.

The evidence suggests KSP's main audience is the hardcore player. Orbiter isn't hardcore, it's just bad.

Even if Squad wants players beyond the hardcore crowd. they should not ditch us.

They're not ditching you. This is a perception perpetuated by the very idea that the game was "hardcore to begin with". Newflash, it's not, and it never was. It has a high learning curve but there's no reason to suggest that because you don't like the way the game is evolving.

I'm just saying, you all would make absolutely terrible game designers and I'm sorry to say but I'm glad you guys don't have much input in the way the game is progressing.

EDIT: I give up! :/

Edited October 20, 2013 by AlternNocturn

[sharpspoonful]

About "this is alpha" - "whining" is based on analysis of decisions and approaches.

People don't think this is finished state but think they see direction of development and they don't like it. (I, personally, do not care)

If you see as someone begin to paint room by pink and you don't like this color - not need to wait when he finish painting -

You will try to say - "hey, what are you doing? I don't think this is good idea"

And there you with your - "stop whining, it's not finished yet"

Oh no, I agree and I hopefully did not imply that any of the aforementioned discussion was whining. Like I had said, us discussing issues with the alpha is good and all. I hope it continues and manifests in a way that is both constructive to the devs and the community as a whole. But you have to remember that this is still an ever developing game, and has yet to fully mature into something that could be sold to the unwashed masses. I don't believe the level of animosity that was being thrown about was appropriate nor adding to the discussion. But I digress, how's about we get back onto topic?

No, I don't believe that mods are undermining the Science Tree. I feel like it gives those that like modding, such as myself, an option to add the parts they like to use in game, and gives us goals they want to achieve and use towards the next goal. I look at the modding scene much like I look at the vanilla crowd, in as much as there is very little difference between the two and the ultimate goals they would like to reach in game. Simply put, different strokes for different folks. Why else would they give us the ability to add on to the existing tree?

Edited October 20, 2013 by sharpspoonful
God, I suck at proofreading!

[Captiva]

I do not feel the developers are trying to appeal to the hardcore crowd. They have left the appeal of this game broad and will probably keep it that way.

I think from what I have seen with the recent updates so far is they are working on polishing what they already have while adding very little in terms of new gameplay features or parts.

While it does seem that Squad is dragging there feet a little with what seems like long waits for new patches vs what actually comes in the patches, I do think this is largely due to what I already mentioned, they are not trying to add new stuff as much as they are trying to refine what is here.

So while I would love to see more new stuff added to give the game more depth and realism, I would not get your hopes up for anything too ground breaking to be added at this point. I would expect the next foreseeable updates to be focused on fleshing out the game and not adding in many new game changing features.

This also explains why there was nothing ground breaking introduced with .22 in terms of the tech tree and career mode and why they took so long to get it in. They wanted to get the mechanics into the game, but certainly was not concerned with making them perfect.

I would not expect huge additions though at this point to the way the tech tree and science work, probably just fine tuning. I would like to see both of these features much more in depth, but I do not think it is going to happen.

At a certain point you have to stop putting the edge pieces of the puzzle down, and start filling in the center. So hopefully they will get the time and resources to make the game most of us want, but Thankfully we have an awesome mod community to fill in the gaps for now.

Anyone who wants to play the vanilla game can do so without mods taking over tech tree. Maybe in future mod authors can make versions that do not modify tech trees only add parts into sandbox. Have a career and sandbox only version.

[Whackjob]

I do think this is largely due to what I already mentioned, they are not trying to add new stuff as much as they are trying to refine what is here.

Research isn't new? Career mode isn't new? Science lab and goo canister isn't new? Kerbonaut training facility isn't new?

#EDIT: I just want to make the point that they're not only adding a few bits here and there. They're also laying down the infrastructure they'll need for bigger stuff later on. You don't add on a hundred foot booster with nine engines on the bottom with a radial decoupler only!

Edited October 20, 2013 by Whackjob

[Valley]

Research isn't new? Career mode isn't new? Science lab and goo canister isn't new? Kerbonaut training facility isn't new?

#EDIT: I just want to make the point that they're not only adding a few bits here and there. They're also laying down the infrastructure they'll need for bigger stuff later on. You don't add on a hundred foot booster with nine engines on the bottom with a radial decoupler only!

And the Mission Control Building. What will that do? What will that DO?!?!?! Most like show us Kerbals chain smoking while working in front of work stations but still, that would be something!

[Captiva]

You clearly did not get my point... That stuff was already planned to be put in, and is only finishing what they started, I said they were probably not going to be adding anything major to the game from this point on. I did not say nothing new was going to be added.

But either way I hope they do add all the stuff everyone is hoping for, just that my opinion is we are not going to see much more then fleshing out what is already planned and implemented.

[Firenexus13]

You clearly did not get my point... That stuff was already planned to be put in, and is only finishing what they started, I said they were probably not going to be adding anything major to the game from this point on. I did not say nothing new was going to be added.

But either way I hope they do add all the stuff everyone is hoping for, just that my opinion is we are not going to see much more then fleshing out what is already planned and implemented.

Umm... Yea.... WRONG!!!

Major stuff will be added that is not planned. here is a list of non-planned non-confirmed stuff.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/36863-What-not-to-suggest

Not to mention: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Planned_features

[Captiva]

How could it already be planned if it is not planned... You know what, never mind I give up.