resonance bateries

[MC.STEEL]

So i was thinking the other day and came up with an idea.

Resonance is basicaly when a material oscilates and stores kinetic energy (im probably saying something wrong).

So why not make a material can store the resonance energy no matter how much you put in it.

the pros are that you could probably have a much higher energy density.

also you could charge it by shaking.

the cons however is that you would have a hard time recovering the energy.

the battery(depending on the frequency) could jiggle back and fourth,losing energy.

(again i dont realy know if the idea makes any sense at all but thats just how my brain works.)

[Nuke]

this is sorta like how a crystal resonator works. from what i know the size and shape of the crystal determines what frequency it will resonate at. to store energy as resonance you would probibly need to increase the amplitude of the resonance, which will at a point fracture the crystal. so i dont think you can store much energy in a crystal lattice. you would need a material which would resonate at higher amplitudes without fracturing. also should point out that such a battery would actually be an ac source and would need rectification to use in dc devices. i dont think it would be a very useful battery. id rather just use an ultra capacitor.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Nuke

[NGTOne]

I think what he's referring to is a larger battery, something meant to store mains power.

That being said, you'd need a crystal that wouldn't shatter, even at a high amplitude. I don't know of any material like this. Any chemists/physicists care to step into the ring?

[Nuke]

i dont think the storage capacity is sufficient for mains power so i just assumed it would be used for smaller things. crystals are mostly used as clock sources or reference frequencies. other piezoelectric devices include buzzers, inkjet nozzels, and bbq grill ignitors. for former 2 use electicity to generate motion. in the latter, motion creates a short high voltage pulse, enough to create a spark but not very much current. in other words its just a transducer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectricity

Edited October 20, 2013 by Nuke

[sikatdakota]

Maybe If The Oscillation Was High And The Frequency Was A Little Lower It Would Work, But I Am Not A Physicist So I Dont Know Exactly

[Warhorse]

I suspect that your major problem in this scheme would be finding a material that doesn't almost immediately lose all the stored energy via radiation or internal friction. A more practical solution might be to pump up a flywheel.

[Idobox]

Crystals with very high quality factor will be able to oscillate for a few thousands cycles before spending all their energy, which means a few ms.

The main problem is that vibrations propagate out of the crystal. It would be like shouting in a glass and quickly putting a cover on top, the vibrations of the medium cause the rest to vibrate, and you loose your energy very fast.

A relatively good way to store energy as vibrations is to use a large pendulum in vacuum. I don't think you can keep one running for much more than a day or two though.

[MC.STEEL]

okay what if we keep the crystal in a vacum and how would a crystal with a low resonance frequency vs a high resonance frequency

DakotaSikat thats exactly what i was thinking a oscilation and low frequency

also why are we only exploring cristal resonance,arent there more materials that could be used

[Ralathon]

okay what if we keep the crystal in a vacum and how would a crystal with a low resonance frequency vs a high resonance frequency

DakotaSikat thats exactly what i was thinking a oscilation and low frequency

also why are we only exploring cristal resonance,arent there more materials that could be used

The problem for batteries isn't energy storage, it is keeping a low entropy.

If you make a crystal or whatever oscillate that is highly ordered energy. It will tend to disperse and transform into heat due to internal and external friction. And once the energy has been turned into heat it becomes impossible to get it back in meaningful quantities.

That's why our batteries are based on either chemical processes (typical AA batteries spring to mind) or electromagnetic effects (capacitors). In those situations you can stop the increase of entropy by isolating the poles. That way they only slowly drain due to leak currents and that means they can last very long.

With the exception of some very specific scenarios where you almost immediately use the energy again, such as flywheels to brake a car and then using the stored energy to speed back up, storing kinetic energy just isn't worth it.

[Tommygun]

It's rare, but they do have Flywheel systems for home owners with solar power.

They are sealed in a vacuum and float on magnets to reduce fiction.

They use them because battery banks for a typical home run at about 15,000 dollars US and have to be replaced every 5 years or so.

They only have to store the power overnight, but are very efficient in this roll.

The US military also uses them, I suspect for their EMP resistance? They work, but are quite pricey.

[Apotheosist]

Technically heat is the oscillation or vibration of atoms/molecules. So you could store energy as heat. In fact this is actually done. For example molten salt energy storage.

[Idobox]

You would need to keep the crystal in a vacuum ,and somehow suspend it. Even magnetic suspension will transmit vibrations (the magnet will vibrate).

Crystals have extremely low losses, but still far too much to be practical for energy storage

[MC.STEEL]

que the quantum mumbo jumbo

[drakesdoom]

Technically heat is the oscillation or vibration of atoms/molecules. So you could store energy as heat. In fact this is actually done. For example molten salt energy storage.

That is not used for storage just transfer. The only two places I know of that use molten salt is thermal solar and some nuclear reactors. They only use it because it allows a much hotter core transferring heat to the salt which I believe then transfers to a water boiler to run a turbine. Since your initial temperature in the salt is higher it runs more efficiently even with a secondary transfer since all heat engines run better the steeper the thermal gradient.

[Idobox]

Meh, we store energy as heat all the time. It's just that we usually don't try to transform it into another form, so we usually call it storing heat.