Realism Overhaul

[Autochton]

Also the whole concept of kOS is more of sequential commands, while in reality most control systems are event based (like "jettison fairing one reached X altitude", "start pitch over once reached Y velocity" and so forth). While this totally could be done, the code is going to be rather large.

My brain just served me up an idea, which I sadly have nothing like the time to implement in any way. Event-driven piloting. Well, Unity runs JavaScript, does it not? JavaScript is excellent for event-based work. I use it every day at work for it. A kOS variant running JS with suitable events would be a fantastic thing:

Example of the events asmi mentioned:

Event.handle('altitude', function (event) {
  if (event.value > 110000) {
    fairing.jettison();
  }
});
Event.handle('velocity', function (event) {
  if (event.value > 150) {
    Navigation.setSteering(Navigation.surfacePrograde + vectorOneDegreeEast);
  }
}

[Starwaster]

Does not compute... How MJ can be configured to pitch the aircraft through ascent but not touch the throttle?

Maybe he's not letting it fly at all. You can switch on the navball ascent marker though. That will show you where you it thinks you need to be pointed at all stages of your ascent.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Starwaster

[Guest]

Scratch that, it seems like it does control the throttle. I just set it up so it keeps it at 100% all the time through the first two stages, and the 3rd one is not throttleable at all. Besides, I'm going to switch to kOS soon, I just need to figure out what MechJeb's uses for ascent trajectory function.

[AbeS]

KOS has trouble when in atmosphere with FAR but I think I have a nice ascent path function, will test it with your soyuz

[Guest]

Thanks. If no further problems crop up, I'll release v1.1 later today/very early tommorow. It'll include kOS in every command pod, though no ascent programs as of now nor pre-flight spoolup. v1.2 should have them, though.

[Razorcane]

This may have been brought up before, but if not, it's something that needs to be addressed, or at least needs to be explained to me. On many rocket specifications, there are different thrust values for SL and Vac. I'm not sure if there's some hidden mechanic that dynamically changes thrust like Isp, but Mechjeb's Vessel Info shows the thrust, and the thrust always remains the same. I think this is something that needs to be added. Surely it wouldn't be that hard, since there is a similar system like it already in the game.

[SFJackBauer]

Scratch that, it seems like it does control the throttle. I just set it up so it keeps it at 100% all the time through the first two stages, and the 3rd one is not throttleable at all. Besides, I'm going to switch to kOS soon, I just need to figure out what MechJeb's uses for ascent trajectory function.

Ah ok - just out of curiosity, why the switch to kOS? And perhaps most importantly, why replacing MJ with it? Is there any relation of this with the RealSolarSystem that I am not seeing?

[AbeS]

@SFJackBauer I guess the reason is you can do exactly what you want (if you know how to) with KOS, but with MJ you are limited to what it offers.

@Dragon01 I made it to orbit with a KOS script but it wasn't as optimal as I would like it to be

[NathanKell]

Razorcane, MFS in realfuel mode handles that. I even wrote a patch to MJ that sarbian included; in the stage stats window click all stats; SLT shows sea level TWR.

The "hidden mechanic" is that KSP is wrong about how Isp works: when Isp decreases (i.e. at sea level) the rocket engine doesn't suddenly become able to push more fuel through, instead the fuel flow stays constant but the thrust decreases.

[Guest]

OK, Soyuz&Progress v1.1 is out: http://www./download/cl6aqsht5u8721p/SovietPack11.zip

Changelog:

-Added Soyuz TMA and Progress M .craft files.

-Added Fregat and Progress.

-Added kOS to Soyuz (it's also included on Progress).

-Fixed Ioncross support.

-Fixed RCS placement. It's now balanced, though still unrealistic.

-Fixed all COM issues, now all COMs are inside the parts and the spacecraft's COM is in a realistic position, right over the ISM decoupler.

-Fixed strutting on the Soyuz-U.

-Tested with the latest versions of required mods.

Ah ok - just out of curiosity, why the switch to kOS? And perhaps most importantly, why replacing MJ with it? Is there any relation of this with the RealSolarSystem that I am not seeing?

Simply because it's more realistic that way. Real rockets don't have universal autopilots, but can have ascent and maneuver programs. kOS is also more flexible in general.

[asmi]

OK, Soyuz&Progress v1.1 is out:

Can you please "realisize" Mir station modules?

Oh, and if you want I can give you my life support mod. It's still an alpha, but currently we're working mostly on IVA and balance, core functionality seems to be in place.

[Guest]

I can help test this if you want, both for regular Soviet Pack and for the real-size one. I'm BobCat's tester anyway. And yeah, MIR is on my list, along with the Proton. It'll take quite a bit of work, though. Also, I still need to implement Soyuz startup and turbopumps, as well as some other features I'd like it to have. Perhaps you'll see the Proton in the next release.

[Captain_Party]

Has anyone done an interplanetary mission with the resized Kerbin? I might try one, but my launch window for Duna is 1 year away, according to KAC and MJ.

EDIT: Can I change the the atmosphere boundry in the .cfg?

Edited November 10, 2013 by Captain_Party

[p3asant]

Has anyone done an interplanetary mission with the resized Kerbin? I might try one, but my launch window for Duna is 1 year away, according to KAC and MJ.

Interplanetary missions are quite harder.

Here's my apollo on venus fly-by (one was planned irl)

Launched atop normal saturn 5, has 6k dV left for return.

[Captain_Party]

Nice work! .Craft? :3

[asmi]

EDIT: Can I change the the atmosphere boundry in the .cfg?

I guess you can, but you shouldn't - there is a reason the mod is called Real Solar System.

[Razorcane]

Razorcane, MFS in realfuel mode handles that. I even wrote a patch to MJ that sarbian included; in the stage stats window click all stats; SLT shows sea level TWR.

The "hidden mechanic" is that KSP is wrong about how Isp works: when Isp decreases (i.e. at sea level) the rocket engine doesn't suddenly become able to push more fuel through, instead the fuel flow stays constant but the thrust decreases.

Well the thing is, a lot of the parts I use have engines and tanks attached together, so the MFS window doesn't show up. Any changes I make have to be done in config files.

I can help test this if you want, both for regular Soviet Pack and for the real-size one. I'm BobCat's tester anyway. And yeah, MIR is on my list, along with the Proton. It'll take quite a bit of work, though. Also, I still need to implement Soyuz startup and turbopumps, as well as some other features I'd like it to have. Perhaps you'll see the Proton in the next release.

I've actually already changed Mir/Proton, but I didn't want to share it because the first stage has 10,470kN of thrust, and in order to prevent the ship from falling apart, it needs dozens of high-strength struts connecting it. Quite problematic.

[Guest]

I'm working on that already. You'll soon get the Proton+Lunokhod, then MIR. BTW, does anyone know the dry mass of a Luna-17 lander? Also, I'd like to know how to split fuel between the drop tanks (used for entering Lunar orbit) and the descend stage. There isn't a lot of info available on the Lunokhod descent stage. Oh, and an efficient launch window calculator would be neat, since I'll need consistent, repeatable results for testing.

[Razorcane]

I'm working on that already. You'll soon get the Proton+Lunokhod, then MIR. BTW, does anyone know the dry mass of a Luna-17 lander? Also, I'd like to know how to split fuel between the drop tanks (used for entering Lunar orbit) and the descend stage. There isn't a lot of info available on the Lunokhod descent stage. Oh, and an efficient launch window calculator would be neat, since I'll need consistent, repeatable results for testing.

Well the mass for Luna-17 was 5,700kg. Since it doesn't need much fuel to land on the moon, the dry mass is probably between 2,000kg and 2,500kg. That's just an estimate though.

Also, I don't know the best place to put this, but I think this is as good of a place as any. Since the ISS project has been abandoned, I think someone should restart it. I have a lot of ideas to make it better, and I would love to work on it with other people. Do you want to hear my ideas?

Edited November 10, 2013 by Razorcane

[Captain_Party]

Damn asmi, these real engines are powerful! Got up to 115km on the first stage...

EDIT: Circ burn was a mere fart as the orbit was already circularised, but the periapsis was in atmo.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Captain_Party

[Captain_Party]

Found a bug... For me at least, I cant time warp in the launchpad. Physical warp, yeah, but no on rails warp...?

[asmi]

Found a bug... For me at least, I cant time warp in the launchpad. Physical warp, yeah, but no on rails warp...?

Yea I've got the same problem - catching launch windows is harder now. But I've came up with workaround - land a pod somewhere nearby (say 10 km from the KSC), switch to it and timewarp all you want. Once you reach launch window, switch back/launch a mission.

[NathanKell]

Razorcane: I fixed the can't-have-tank-and-engine-together bug a loooong time ago. You can totally have a MFT and a modular engine on the same part now. Make sure the part has both an appropriate ModuleFuelTanks and an appropriate ModuleEngineConfigs.

Regarding wobble, get KJR.

Regarding ISS, I'd either post in the ISS thread or start a new one...

Captain Party, you're welcome to open RealSolarSystem.cfg and edit the atmosphere scale heights of planets if you want to change atmosphere height. Note that that's what really controls atmo height, not the deceptively named atmosphere height, which is just for show.

Regarding warp on the launchpad: I haven't had this issue myself; but the vessel has to be totally not moving, even a bit of wobble will prevent warp. That might be what's doing it.

[Razorcane]

Razorcane: I fixed the can't-have-tank-and-engine-together bug a loooong time ago. You can totally have a MFT and a modular engine on the same part now. Make sure the part has both an appropriate ModuleFuelTanks and an appropriate ModuleEngineConfigs.

Regarding wobble, get KJR.

Regarding ISS, I'd either post in the ISS thread or start a new one...

Yea I have KJR and it made it worse for some reason. As for the ISS, I could post in the topic, but it's already dead, and I don't want to start a new one because I really don't think I can spearhead such a project.

[Guest]

ISS project isn't dead at all. Yogui is working on Cupola, Z1, Pirs and Poisk. I'm also going to contribute with config edits and BobCat will probably model some missing truss pieces and experiments. It's moving slowly, but far from dead.