Science Extended - Community Science Project

[Swifty]

Hi all,

I am currently in the progress of implementing my own science plugin to extend the science system with a number of additional features. However, it is evident that others in the community are doing the same.

So I have a proposal: instead of making multiple plugins, scienceDef, models, etc. that all do roughly the same thing lets pool are resources and work together.

I intend on sharing everything I learn in the process of creating a science add-on here. And hope other would like to contribute as well. The intent is that we share what we are doing and licence are work in such a way that we can either create an add-on together or produce are own version of it.

What I have been working is: (all files will be put on Git hub or similar as soon as it works robustly)

• A science generator module that requires resource, scienceExperiments and kernels to be present and generates, experimentalData.
  
• A modified version of the official science module (ModuleScienceExperiment, via inheritance) that converts the experimentalData into a science report which are functionally the same as a stock science experiment.
  
• A ScienceDef.cfg file that has a new experiment called zerogScienceExperiment with a situation mask for low & high space only.
  
• Once I have the above working well I'm going to move onto looking at creating experiments that can be carried around on the surface use KAS.
  

I know others in the community are working related projects, such as data storage modules and other new science experiments.

Everyone willing to get involved is welcome

Here is a shot list of science related stuff you may wish to help with.

Ideas for what could be done

List of real experiments that could be added to the game.

Flavour text for said experiments.

Balancing issues or concerns.

Coding

Model creating

Help testing when the time comes

Lastly this thread is meant as a place for combining effort in the creating of science based plugins. Theres is nothing stopping you from joining and then taking whats been done modifying it to fit with your vision and then releasing it.

[BananaDealer]

Cabana Corp. R&D is currently looking into ways of expanding science options. If you're interested, you can visit the mod thread- the intended new features are on the last page.

[sharpspoonful]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_research_on_the_International_Space_Station

This list is long, and it would probably mostly depend on whether or not you want the experiments to be done in EVA or not.

[Swifty]

BananaDealer,

You were one of the people this thread was aimed at

Hey there, Ban-Anad here!

It's been a long hiatus, I know, but both my lawyers and psychiatrists (as well as my accountant) tell me it's time to come back! Don't worry, I've brought you a t-shirt from Havaii... Um... You wear XL, right?

Anyways, moving on! With the release of KSP .22 and the long-awaited career-mode, Cabana Corp. R&D has determined the situation right for explosive expansion of our current departments! Here are some of the new planned features to come:

Data Storage Drives!

Ever wish you didn't have to bring 10 Mystery Goo canisters with you on each mission, just so you can do 10 experiments in different environments and bring them back to Kerbin? Well, fret no more! Cabana Corp is currently exploring methods of storing data gathered in experiments in devices code-named "data drives", which would leave your equipment free for new experiments!

Expanded Probe Capabilities!

What are probes good for these days? I mean, why send a probe when you can send a Kerbal instead, with more scientific potential! The Misapplied Sciences Division of Cabana Corp. is currently overseeing several possible advancements in computing technology which would allow probes to complete tasks of equal or larger importance, compared to a crewed mission! This would make satellites less dependant on "external" equipment they may carry, like Goo containers and Material bays.

Expanded SCIENCE! Options!

Sure, Mystery Goo is interesting and those Material bays do give off enticing lights, but what else is there to do? Wouldn't you like to know what happens to a monkey should it be exposed to SPACE? And are Solar Rays really that bad? I mean, no one has actually seen one! Wouldn't you like to be the first?! Cabana Corp.'s various departments are all working together, devising interesting and fun ways to... er... "perform experiments" with the "assistance" of test subjects!

Tech-Three? Tech-WE!

All the current and any new parts and other features will be properly integrated into the standard tech-tree. The Occult Practices division is also looking into several possible expansions in various fields on the tree.

These features and more are to come, as and when the various departments of Cabana Corp. R&D submit their entries and ideas for the new version.

The features you have outlined above seem like really good ideas. It especially good that its a different area of the science system to what I've been working at.

In principle would you be interested in working together to try and get as much science enhancements into a single add-on as possible?

[Swifty]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_research_on_the_International_Space_Station

Thanks for that I spent a long time yesterday googling for Zero-Gravity experiments, didn't think to look at ISS, doh.

Much appreciated

[sharpspoonful]

most of the links are pretty much dead, but the names are there. Plus NASA's site is rich in info. If you need a researcher to start wading through some reading let me know. I'd love to be of use.

[BananaDealer]

In principle would you be interested in working together to try and get as much science enhancements into a single add-on as possible?

Send me a message with a way to reach you for brain-storming/sharing ideas!

If you haven't already- track my latest posts if you need any more information on what I'm currently working on.

[Swifty]

Sharpspoonful that would be very helpful esp if you could put the info in this format with results for us to use:

Experiment Title = Exeriment Title (i.e. Zero-G Experiments)

Info on how you would like the experiment to function in KSP. Right click on module like stock experiments? or something different

Results - Below are just the InSpace Situation Results

default = Text that appears on completing the experiment

KerbinInSpaceLow = Text that appears on completing the experiment in space near Kerbin

KerbinInSpace = Text that appears on completing the experiment in space far away from Kerbin but in SOI

MunInSpace =

MinmusInSpace =

GillyInSpace =

MohoInSpace =

EveInSpace =

DunaInSpace =

IkeInSpace =

DresInSpace =

JoolInSpace =

LaytheInSpace =

VallInSpace =

TyloInSpace =

BopInSpace =

PolInSpace =

EelooInSpace =

I'll work up a text file or something with all the situation/biomasks there can be so you can make experiments for different situation such as on the surface.

Don't worry about the practicalities of implementing the experiments in KSP. Just put in you ideas and I'll see what I can do

[Jimbio]

Interesting thread, and i'll be following what could come out of it.

May i suggest some threads with discussions and requests that might strike your fancy?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53760-Science-is-great-but-there-s-no-need-to-return-samples!-an-essay

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53320-Repeatable-transmission-nullifies-sample-return

[BananaDealer]

I'm thinking of some sort of equipment that passively gathers environmental data and stores it on a data drive. It would require an electric charge input and would function like transmitting experiments, only instead of sending them to Kerbin for diminishing returns, it would store results (so long as from different environments) to be returned later, or transmitted in bulk at a later point...

That of course would require me setting up the data drives to start with...

[Swifty]

I think I could add abit to my generator module to take in electricity and out put science as data. Would you want it to have situation and bio dome masks?

[BananaDealer]

I think I could add abit to my generator module to take in electricity and out put science as data. Would you want it to have situation and bio dome masks?

How would you make it output science?

[Swifty]

By:

 ResearchAndDevelopment.Instance.Science = ResearchAndDevelopment.Instance.Science + YourValueHere;

[redmario14]

This sounds awesome.

[bazz]

I had some ideas i wanted to post. This is my science wish list.

A camera for EVA Kerbals and a probe version to take screenshots and be rewarded with science.

I think a radio telescope would be a cool thing to be able to drop on celestial bodies to generate science.

In the same vein as above laser reflectors like the ones left by Apollo.

Radar / Kethane scanner

Atmospheric analysers

Probe soil/rock collector and retrival

Greenhouse science generator

Soil impact tester (shoot the surface with a projectile)

ISA mapping

Scientific outposts rewarded for sustained stays but require resources.

An automated probe rover to potter about at a couple of m/s in a haphazard way and generate science until it runs out of power or drives off a cliff or rolls over.

[sharpspoonful]

Sharpspoonful that would be very helpful esp if you could put the info in this format with results for us to use:

Experiment Title = Exeriment Title (i.e. Zero-G Experiments)

Info on how you would like the experiment to function in KSP. Right click on module like stock experiments? or something different.. (more stuff)

Will do after work tonight.

[Captain Sierra]

I can model, write configs, and am slowly learning C#.

Services: OFFERED.

[sumghai]

I have to admit, you guys have piqued my interest, especially the ability to store multiple sets of data regardless of origin/nature in a "disk drive".

I'm tempted to also suggest that the experiments themselves be made as small payload modules, of which several can be loaded / exchanged on a common holder - perhaps even standardize the form factor to something like KASPAR or equivalent?

[BananaDealer]

I have to admit, you guys have piqued my interest, especially the ability to store multiple sets of data regardless of origin/nature in a "disk drive".

I'm tempted to also suggest that the experiments themselves be made as small payload modules, of which several can be loaded / exchanged on a common holder - perhaps even standardize the form factor to something like KASPAR or equivalent?

The nature and origin will matter. The way I intend it, data stored on drives will be handled similarly to EVA reports, where only one EVA report per environment/biome can "exist" on the drive at any one time. You can indeed have multiple results from the same experiment, but only if they are under different circumstances- for instance one Goo result from Mun's Highlands alongside another Goo result from its' Midlands.

@Captain Sierra,

Message me if you wish to be part of Cabana Corp.'s community-driven Science Expansion Project.

[Swifty]

I had some ideas i wanted to post.... (Snip)

Thanks bazz for the ideas. I like your thinking.

Im going to work on in the following order

- Scientific outposts rewarded for sustained stays but require resources. (Space only module and ground only module)

- Greenhouse science generator ( Didn't think of this but it makes perfect sense, I like your thinking)

- Data storage module ( if BannaDealer hasn't been able to get it to work by the time i get to this)

- Probe soil/rock collector and retrival ( I want to set up the code so you can only take 1 sample from each lat, long coordinate )

I can model, write configs, and am slowly learning C#.

Services: OFFERED.

Thank you Captain. Your help will be greatly appreciated. You can either

-model something sciencey that you'd like in the game and I'll try and sort out the code to get it to work.

- or model a ground based science lab. Was thinking it could be modelled in such a manner that it wouldn't look out of place as either the core for a rover or a static base module.

I have to admit, you guys have piqued my interest, especially the ability to store multiple sets of data regardless of origin/nature in a "disk drive".

I'm tempted to also suggest that the experiments themselves be made as small payload modules, of which several can be loaded / exchanged on a common holder - perhaps even standardize the form factor to something like KASPAR or equivalent?

I'm glad there's something that interests you here. (Love you Fustek Expansion modules btw!). I like that idea of having experiments as modules integrated with KASPAR and/or KAS. I'll have a think about how I can set you a science lab that works in different ways depending on what Module is attached next to it.

Now head down coding time for and hour or two

[BananaDealer]

I'm tempted to also suggest that the experiments themselves be made as small payload modules, of which several can be loaded / exchanged on a common holder - perhaps even standardize the form factor to something like KASPAR or equivalent?

That's actually part of the reason why I want to create data storage drives.

And again, would you have anything against maybe making a couple of models for the Cabana Corp. R&D Facility?

@Swifty,

I was having the same idea about my aforementioned R&D Facility.

It would function similarly to the Japanese Scientific Module on the ISS (Kibo), where available experiments can be exchanged for different results.

You are also welcome to try and code a module for the Data Drives, I'm very bad at coding, so yeah...

As long as you have it working the way I intend it (I've specified on several places), I'll be happy...

Edited October 22, 2013 by BananaDealer

[nothke]

Hi guys, I'll have to say that many things you propose will be included in KASPAR, I have most of the things modeled by now, and I was waiting for 0.22 to see what the system will EXACTLY look like, but also I am slowed down by Kerbin City on which I am currently working and will publish build 2 in a few days.

When I saw 0.22 I have to say I am disappointed cause it's basically a resource gathering system.. especially with absence of experiments that depend on time. It practically makes no sense to make space stations now, as you don't need to "keep" anything in space, all you need is just go from A to B and right click and "gather", a one time event. This doesn't really make sense cause most of the experiments happening in real life are actually long duration experiments (!!!), like material exposure, crystal or plant growth.. Therefore, I am was thinking of inviting someone who knows how to write plugins to help me.

On the other hand, instead of "unlocking parts" in a tech tree, I imagined my system to be a "discount" system but which actually makes sense. For example if you expose an orange - bare metal material in the furnace (material combustion) rack and then maybe in the external material exposure rack, due to the research you perform on it, the (dry) weight of orange tanks would be reduced by 30% (for example). Some other things would improve isp of the engines, or some impact resistance of various parts..

But all this I have to focus on after I publish the next build of the Kerbin City

Edited October 22, 2013 by nothke

[BananaDealer]

Hi guys, I'll have to say that many things you propose will be included in KASPAR, I have most of the things modeled by now, and I was waiting for 0.22 to see what the system will EXACTLY look like, but also I am slowed down by Kerbin City on which I am currently working and will publish build 2 in a few days.

When I saw 0.22 I have to say I am disappointed cause it's basically a resource gathering system.. especially with absence of experiments that depend on time. It practically makes no sense to make space stations now, as you don't need to "keep" anything in space, all you need is just go from A to B and right click and "gather", a one time event. This doesn't really make sense cause most of the experiments happening in real life are actually long duration experiments (!!!), like material exposure, crystal or plant growth.. Therefore, I am was thinking of inviting someone who knows how to write plugins to help me.

On the other hand, instead of "unlocking parts" in a tech tree, I imagined my system to be a "discount" system but which actually makes sense. For example if you expose an orange - bare metal material in the furnace (material combustion) rack and then maybe in the external material exposure rack, due to the research you perform on it, the (dry) weight of orange tanks would be reduced by 30% (for example). Some other things would improve isp of the engines, or some impact resistance of various parts..

But all this I have to focus on after I publish the next build of the Kerbin City

Nobody said we shouldn't work together...

In any case, I have most of the "Expanded Probe Capabilities" done.

I'll be adding some more rover-related experiments to the probes (not counting the Stayputnik) in awhile...

I'll look into using Module Manager to add the config lines, instead of having separate parts later on...

[sumghai]

That's actually part of the reason why I want to create data storage drives.

And again, would you have anything against maybe making a couple of models for the Cabana Corp. R&D Facility?

I'm somewhat interested in helping out, but I'm up to my neck with migrating my add-on authoring workflow from PartTools 0.18 to 0.20, which due to some sloppy organization on my part in the past, is taking much longer than expected. I also have my hands full working on a major update to my FusTek parts, consolidating models and introducing IVAs.

Hi guys, I'll have to say that many things you propose will be included in KASPAR, I have most of the things modeled by now, and I was waiting for 0.22 to see what the system will EXACTLY look like, but also I am slowed down by Kerbin City on which I am currently working and will publish build 2 in a few days.

When I saw 0.22 I have to say I am disappointed cause it's basically a resource gathering system.. especially with absence of experiments that depend on time. It practically makes no sense to make space stations now, as you don't need to "keep" anything in space, all you need is just go from A to B and right click and "gather", a one time event. This doesn't really make sense cause most of the experiments happening in real life are actually long duration experiments (!!!), like material exposure, crystal or plant growth.. Therefore, I am was thinking of inviting someone who knows how to write plugins to help me.

I've probably mentioned this already in the KASPAR thread, but what you could do is (once you have time away from Kerbin City) release a basic WIP/dev version of KASPAR with some sample boilerplate racks and bays, so that the rest of us who wish to adopt your system in the future can design their add-ons accordingly.

A fully comprehensive and realistic science system based on KASPAR would be ideal in the long run, but as you have stated, would definitely require a plugin, and so may be best relegated to another community project at a later date.

[BananaDealer]

I'm somewhat interested in helping out, but I'm up to my neck with migrating my add-on authoring workflow from PartTools 0.18 to 0.20, which due to some sloppy organization on my part in the past, is taking much longer than expected. I also have my hands full working on a major update to my FusTek parts, consolidating models and introducing IVAs.

Hey, I totally understand if you don't have time. Do your own thing, the Cabana Corp. will be fine.