[1.4.3]ALCOR,"Advanced Landing Capsule for Orbital Rendezvous" by ASET (08/02/2017)

[smart013]

Hands down the most beautiful iva ingame at this time. Exceptional good job!

(As a matter of fact at one time i forgot the mission i was doing while playing at all these gizmos)

[Doc Anderson]

SQUAD should be ashamed of their own IVA models

My gut reaction was much the same. But then it occurred to me that SQUAD is doing exactly what they should be doing. They are creating an absolutely astounding infrastructure upon which work like this can be done. That things like the ALCOR capsule are possible is a testament to their excellent work. Also, SQUAD made the decision to open this game up to the community for just this reason. It is a decision that has made their work more complicated, but gives them access to some amazing innovation. Remember, this is still an ALPHA release. And as "finished" as the game feels, it is easy for me to forget that myself.

In the grand scheme of things, I would MUCH rather have SQUAD complete the infrastructure and mechanics and then put a better polish on the individual parts.

But, I do agree, Alexustas' work has raised the bar on what is possible with IVA so high, it is impossible not to notice the difference. He deserves recognition for that and I'm sure SQUAD would be the first to say so themselves.

[Mihara]

My gut reaction was much the same. But then it occurred to me that SQUAD is doing exactly what they should be doing. They are creating an absolutely astounding infrastructure upon which work like this can be done.

Please look at the comments in RPM source code before making statements about "astounding infrastructure". See also my lectures in my thread about the Module-That-Must-Not-Be-Named. I would also much rather have Squad complete the infrastructure, or at least, well, make it consistent, but in many cases, it's actually too late to do so because too much infrastructure has been piled up on top.

In general, Squad deserves considerably less patting on the back than it gets.

[leops1984]

Third party mod support:

Active Texture Management (thanks Green Skull), Connected Living Spaces (thanks Sumghai) and Timmers’ KeepFit are now natively supported.

Okay, I feel like an idiot, but: are these parts of the downloads in the first post? I cannot find the configuration files for these in the files I downloaded. I downloaded:

- ASET_Props_1.0.1.zip

- ALCOR_IVA_Patch_0.9.zip

- ALCOR_Capsule_0.9.zip

Edited July 5, 2014 by leops1984

[BudgetHedgehog]

Okay, I feel like an idiot, but: are these parts of the downloads in the first post? I cannot find the configuration files for these in the files I downloaded. I downloaded:

- ASET_Props_1.0.1.zip

- ALCOR_IVA_Patch_0.9.zip

- ALCOR_Capsule_0.9.zip

They're contained the ALCOR Capsule cfg itself, not as a standalone cfg. If you have ALCOR_Capsule_0.9.zip, you have that third party mod support, don't worry

[alexustas]

Okay, I feel like an idiot, but: are these parts of the downloads in the first post? I cannot find the configuration files for these in the files I downloaded.

You can find it in the config file of ALCOR_LanderCapsule (...\Gamedata\ASET\ALCOR_LanderCapsule\Part\ALCOR.cfg)

[leops1984]

Thanks for the quick replies - I see the bits in the config file now. Am I supposed to see an ASET folder in the texture cache, or it's by design that there's none? I deleted the original texture cache so it would be rebuilt, but there's still no ASET folder in the cache.

[jrandom]

Thanks for the quick replies - I see the bits in the config file now. Am I supposed to see an ASET folder in the texture cache, or it's by design that there's none? I deleted the original texture cache so it would be rebuilt, but there's still no ASET folder in the cache.

You have to have a .cfg that specifies the folder and that it's active. I started with the GreenSkull configs and then made my own for each folder not covered by GS.

[BudgetHedgehog]

So I got reminded today about something I keep meaning to ask: is there a point to the staging icon? There's nothing on the capsule (or in its cfg) that can be staged, it's just.. there. If there is indeed no point to it, I'm going to go ahead an comment out that line in the cfg. The staging list in stock needs a total rework anyway, no sense in cluttering it up.

[Doc Anderson]

In general, Squad deserves considerably less patting on the back than it gets.

Mihara, congratulations, you have an opinion.

My opinion is that KSP is one of the best games I have EVER bought.

WHY do I say this, you ask?

That is a FANTASTIC question. Thank you for asking.

I think it is one of the best games I have EVER bought because I have nearly 200 games in my Steam library and I have more time logged in KSP than the next 20 games COMBINED. Now THAT (for me) is value for dollar.

Yup! $22 bucks happily and well spent. No buyer's remorse. Lots of great game play. I think I can unreservedly use words like "great" and "astounding" at that point.

The great thing about opinions is they are not facts. You can have a diametrically opposed opinion and it doesn't make mine wrong. Everybody wins.

FYI: You are not going change my mind about using words like astounding.

As for whether SQUAD deserves all those opinions ... er ... pats on the back, consider they are the ones getting them not me or you. I, for one, am happy to let them enjoy them.

[sharpspoonful]

Mihara, congratulations, you have an opinion.

My opinion is that KSP is one of the best games I have EVER bought.

WHY do I say this, you ask?

That is a FANTASTIC question. Thank you for asking.

I think it is one of the best games I have EVER bought because I have nearly 200 games in my Steam library and I have more time logged in KSP than the next 20 games COMBINED. Now THAT (for me) is value for dollar.

Yup! $22 bucks happily and well spent. No buyer's remorse. Lots of great game play. I think I can unreservedly use words like "great" and "astounding" at that point.

The great thing about opinions is they are not facts. You can have a diametrically opposed opinion and it doesn't make mine wrong. Everybody wins.

FYI: You are not going change my mind about using words like astounding.

As for whether SQUAD deserves all those opinions ... er ... pats on the back, consider they are the ones getting them not me or you. I, for one, am happy to let them enjoy them.

It is a fantastic game, you are correct. But a lot of mod developers, coders, and modelers are confused and frustrated with the sloppiness of the coding in some places, of overly-large or otherwise poor stock textures

and models, and some of the mod users (like myself) rely on the modding community to fully enjoy the game.

It's not to say that SQUAD is in anyway shape or form as bad as EA, or something like that, its just that a lot of people would rather that SQUAD clean up its own mistakes and messes instead of compounding on them.

TL;DR

It's not that SQUAD is terrible, but putting them that high atop a pedestal this early in development is not something a lot of us are willing to do.

[sumghai]

There's no need to be that apprehensive, Doc Anderson.

Mihara speaks from actual, plugin authoring experience when he states valid facts about the less-than-optimal way SQUAD is handling the IVA feature (specifically, the bizarre coordinate system / transforms required to pair a part exterior up with its corresponding IVA and orient it properly). He's not necessarily bashing SQUAD overall, just criticizing a facet of their current code.

If you are interested, I can point you to the sections of code where Mihara had to compensate for SQUAD's nonsensical IVA code, as well as my comments and observations when I helped test his plugin.

[Doc Anderson]

I'm sure you could point me to a lot of code thingies that would be really impressive if I understood them.

Here is what I do understand:

The game is not done yet. It is still an unfinished alpha and yet it is FAR more fun than SO much of what is sold as finished. That's pretty cool!

Plus, SQUAD is doing a truly remarkable thing. They're defining a genre. That's impressive.

And they've opened it up to us in the community to tinker with knowing full well that other people (in many cases with as much or greater skill than themselves) would take it places they never dreamed (I mean, Holy Cow! Look at ALCOR. It's mind blowing!). But, the fact that SQUAD has done this is both generous and commendable.

And, if that is not enough, they've created something that has captured people's imagination about space exploration. This is wonderful!

Not to mention KSP is inspiring kids to go into science. This is genuinely important. ... And I heard somewhere (can't confirm) that SQUAD is working on a version of KSP specifically for classrooms that will allow teachers to create shared content for students to work with. This is WAY cool and goes far beyond "just a game."

Yes, I realize the game is not perfect. And the code absolutely could be better. I'm not disagreeing with that. My point is simply that, despite its shortcomings, I think (that is to say, me, myself ... not anyone else) ... I think that KSP is a fantastic accomplishment. Warts and all.

So, no, I don't care about "less-than-optimal code" in a game that isn't done yet. That's not my job. I will leave that to people with different skill sets than me. I just see a lot to celebrate in the bigger picture.

And remember, this whole conversation started with choosing to look at a shared frustration in a positive way.

[Mihara]

....Oh. Gweh... You disappoint me, Mr. Anderson. Might I remind you, that if I didn't like the game, I probably wouldn't be making mods for it and clocking thousands of hours playing it, so you probably, probably don't need to convince me of it's coolness?

But no, it's not about "less-than-optimal code". It's about genius-level things like procedural quad surface that generates planetary surfaces getting mixed with outright insanity like the load-all-assets-into-memory-and-keep-them-there, which gets players craving for a 64 bit version that simply shouldn't be needed. Before 0.23, it would be a problem easy to fix. Do not load textures up until they are actually required by parts that are present in the scene. Unload them if they aren't. Unity does this natively to assets packaged in asset files, without even asking anyone. KSP maintains it's own assets for parts and does no such thing. It also has to keep all textures in memory and load them all at, once so that every part can be shown in the editor. Ok, that can be optimized later, right? Render the part into an icon cache of some kind, load it only once the player actually puts it onto the ship, easy. But in 0.23, they just had to introduce the cool spinning model into the tooltip, and now it just can't be done quite so easily, a change that could be dealt with in a day will now chew up weeks of someone's time.

There is such a thing as starting to optimize too late, there is such a thing as not paying attention to where you're coding to. There are other examples, but this one is glaring, easy to see the effects of, and easy to explain. I have seen companies fall to hubris before, only to end up in obscurity, and I do not want to see another one do so -- and in my observations, it starts happening when they make something genuinely cool, and then believe they got it good enough, when fans, who got rabid and uncritical for some reason, start trampling down people who find actual, real flaws in it. Because coolness is somehow an excuse not to clean up your messes.

Well, coolness wears off with years as other people imitate it, messes are objectively there.

Which is why I maintain that Squad deserves considerably less patting on the back than it gets. And in particular it does not deserve patting on the back for "astounding infrastructure", because it's not that astounding, not well documented, is completely insane in places, and as time goes by, the costs of getting it all fixed rise, while the income from sales will eventually plateau.

"considerably less" is very far from not deserving at all, mind you. But I don't just have an opinion.

I have an educated opinion.

Now, shall we stop derailing the thread, or do you have anything to say that hasn't actually been said over in General Discussion a thousand times? Because I heard all of those things, and said them myself on occasion, so this is hardly necessary.

[alexustas]

I have tested ALCOR with RPM 0.18 and MJ 2.3.0. Seems like all working ok.

Many thanks to Mihara for fast work!

[Boamere]

I'll do some testing!

[LMA]

Thanks for this great mod

Can you use drop box it's faster and no spam ads.

[Pretender6]

Yes. The idea is still quite raw and needs to be discussed and finalization.

In fact, I'm just waiting when I accumulate enough statistics about ALáOR's new internals , for understanding in which direction I must moving on. I have stopped work for a while, and began to experiment with my other projects :

- Modular Crew and Cargo Transportation System (MCCTS)

- Components for bases construction (big module you have already saw)

- Lander 2.5m ( like ALáOR , but much bigger )

- Interplanetary command module

- rover's cabin

Currently i am planning to reuse the ALCOR into other vehicle mode, by using docking ports onto other vehicles, if 0 g then just using RCS or else KAS or something else

Is there a way to incorporate into a option in your future plans, or am i talking crazy ;-)

[alexustas]

Currently i am planning to reuse the ALCOR into other vehicle mode, by using docking ports onto other vehicles, if 0 g then just using RCS or else KAS or something else

Is there a way to incorporate into a option in your future plans, or am i talking crazy ;-)

I'm not sure if you're talking crazy, but I'm pretty sure you're talking incomprehensible. I don't understand what exactly do you want, and what, exactly, do you wish that I would do to help you.

Please try saying that differently, English is not my native language as everyone probably knows.

[sp1989]

I'm not sure if you're talking crazy, but I'm pretty sure you're talking incomprehensible. I don't understand what exactly do you want, and what, exactly, do you wish that I would do to help you.

Please try saying that differently, English is not my native language as everyone probably knows.

English is my native language and I dont understand at all what he wants.

[Voculus]

Edit: False alarm. Uninstalled, and reinstalled, and everything works great.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Voculus

[Helix935]

I'm not sure if you're talking crazy, but I'm pretty sure you're talking incomprehensible. I don't understand what exactly do you want, and what, exactly, do you wish that I would do to help you.

Please try saying that differently, English is not my native language as everyone probably knows.

english is also my first (and currently only) language but i am usuallly good at understanding gibberish so i will just take stab at trying to make sense of that....

hmm i think he is saying that he plans on using docking ports on the ALCOR to allow for new types of vehicles that he can interchange out in the field using rcs or kas, and i htink he is wondering if the ALCOR will one day have its own rcs ports or a docking port for that purpose.....

then again i could be completely wrong so yeah...

[Astate210]

This is my very first post on this forum and it's for you Alexustas...

After one year of playing KSP and looking on the forum for mods, I skip ALCOR saying "Meh, just a rather part mod with fancy graphics that's all..."

Then, the 0.24 came out... and ALCOR was updated very fast so I ws like : "Why not looking at it ?"

And HOLY CR*P ! It's just perfect ! everything is perfect ! Everything is here, you can do everything necessary IVA and even more !

Just to say thank you !

PS: The "turn seat" button just kill me xD

[OrbitalSolutionsLtd]

I think it's time to make the same thing with a command module now.

[PringleMan]

This is my very first post on this forum and it's for you Alexustas...

After one year of playing KSP and looking on the forum for mods, I skip ALCOR saying "Meh, just a rather part mod with fancy graphics that's all..."

Then, the 0.24 came out... and ALCOR was updated very fast so I ws like : "Why not looking at it ?"

And HOLY CR*P ! It's just perfect ! everything is perfect ! Everything is here, you can do everything necessary IVA and even more !

Just to say thank you !

PS: The "turn seat" button just kill me xD

You should also take a look at the Taurus HCV. It is also a stock-alike that is really well built and fills the need for a high-capacity capsule without having to use hitchiker pods.