[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[optimusjamie]

Any tips on configuring Deadly Reentry for FAR NEAR?

Edited January 1, 2015 by optimusjamie

[Sof]

Any tips on configuring Deadly Reentry for FAR NEAR?

Second this. My reentries are not depleting the ablative shield at all on the default settings with NEAR installed.

Even stuff without ablative shields can survive.

Also, you can't use decimal points when trying to change the shockwave exponent in flight, so I'm unsure how to change them to the recommended "1.12"

[Starwaster]

Second this. My reentries are not depleting the ablative shield at all on the default settings with NEAR installed.

Even stuff without ablative shields can survive.

Also, you can't use decimal points when trying to change the shockwave exponent in flight, so I'm unsure how to change them to the recommended "1.12"

It's a quirk of the text entry system. You have to either:

have a double digit number first and then insert the decimal where you want it.

Insert the decimal in front of the first number so it becomes 0.1 then change the 0 to a 1

Also, from now on I have got to have orbital parameters (AP, PE, velocity) / which planet / stock or RSS (and specific planetary configs) when someone says that the shields 'don't deplete at all'. Because that makes it sound like the whole mod is broken or your setup is broken. (I know they DO deplete) But on stock, your reentry speeds are usually going to be very low. Low velocity = low heating.

[Sof]

It's a quirk of the text entry system. You have to either:

have a double digit number first and then insert the decimal where you want it.

Insert the decimal in front of the first number so it becomes 0.1 then change the 0 to a 1

Also, from now on I have got to have orbital parameters (AP, PE, velocity) / which planet / stock or RSS (and specific planetary configs) when someone says that the shields 'don't deplete at all'. Because that makes it sound like the whole mod is broken or your setup is broken. (I know they DO deplete) But on stock, your reentry speeds are usually going to be very low. Low velocity = low heating.

It is stock sized Kerbin with NEAR installed. Orbital velocities ~2200ms with an AP,PE about 80000m to 25000m with just a mk1 command pod and a parachute on top. Still have 250 ablative shield when I land.

Trying to change the shockwave thingy in flight meant that I accidentally changed it to 112 and everything exploded immediately.

[Starwaster]

It is stock sized Kerbin with NEAR installed. Orbital velocities ~2200ms with an AP,PE about 80000m to 25000m with just a mk1 command pod and a parachute on top. Still have 250 ablative shield when I land.

Trying to change the shockwave thingy in flight meant that I accidentally changed it to 112 and everything exploded immediately.

Do it before you hit atmo, or use the second method that I gave. (put the cursor in front of the number, then hit . and you'll get 0.1)

Edited January 1, 2015 by Starwaster

[Sof]

So I changed the shockwave exponent to 1.12 before hitting the atmosphere. An circular 70km orbit ~2200ms to reentry with a 25km Periapsis ablates 7 points off the shield.

My pod is not that heavy or that big, so I assume the shield was "designed" for much more demanding applications as a threshold, but I'm wondering if this value is typical for similar re-entries in other peoples games?

[Starwaster]

I've created a poll that I would like Deadly Reentry users to participate in:

The poll's purpose is to gather information on how many DRE users use any aerodynamics mods at all.

(finding out which one is actually secondary; the important thing is to know what percentage are using stock aero....)

(or are stock aero users kind of like the boogey man, something created to scare small children into eating their broccoli...?)

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/105733-Deadly-Reentry-Aero-mod-poll

(yes, reposting this because KSP forum wouldn't let me post a new message so soon after my last one and kept putting it at the end of the last one)

[Leszek]

So then the question becomes what should I do?

If it is FAR that is creating the issue, should I change my settings? Should I wait for another version of DRE?

[Starwaster]

So then the question becomes what should I do?

If it is FAR that is creating the issue, should I change my settings? Should I wait for another version of DRE?

Yes, change your settings. Try Hard mode. If that's not enough (and it might not be)

then

densityExponent = 0.5

Multiplier = 20 (or higher)

shockwaveExponent = 1.12

I think for the next release I'm going to increase the default settings or something. But it's a tricky thing because I recall a few months ago and people were complaining that things were too hot... so I dunno people.

[Leszek]

Perhaps a FAR/NEAR button?

I am already on hard now so I will get to those changes. Now I have done that before in an old version of DR and a config file. In this version I thought I read that the key combination (which I don't remember) was disabled but then I see someone above mentioning that they changed it in game. The front page info looks a bit out of date. What would be the best way do go about doing that? Config file? (Nevermind, found it. Derp)

(Or perhaps a difficulty slider?)

(And last edit) I think that people are going to complain about something like this because it is very much a suit to taste in an alternate environment where there isn't an objective answer on how it should be. Having said that, this is an awesome mod and I thank you for making it!

Edited January 2, 2015 by Leszek

[Starwaster]

Perhaps a FAR/NEAR button?

I am already on hard now so I will get to those changes. Now I have done that before in an old version of DR and a config file. In this version I thought I read that the key combination (which I don't remember) was disabled but then I see someone above mentioning that they changed it in game. The front page info looks a bit out of date. What would be the best way do go about doing that? Config file? (Nevermind, found it. Derp)

(Or perhaps a difficulty slider?)

(And last edit) I think that people are going to complain about something like this because it is very much a suit to taste in an alternate environment where there isn't an objective answer on how it should be. Having said that, this is an awesome mod and I thank you for making it!

Not sure what you're asking there; you mean how to do those changes? Enable the debug menu in the settings page. Not sure what I'd do with a slider, seems better to have several discrete settings groups like we have now.

I didn't make DRE; I'm just like the third or fourth person to adopt it for maintenance / development. Though I hope I've added some improvements

[Leszek]

I meant maintain it.

Yea I found the menu, I was over thinking it.

[The Yellow Dart]

...or are stock aero users kind of like the boogey man, something created to scare small children into eating their broccoli...?

Wow, I had no idea I was an endangered species! I'm like an oblivious panda sliding down a snowbank without a care in the world. I guess I'd better get busy with the procreating...

I guess I just stick to what I'm used to. I have been eying your Stock Drag Fix, it would probably be installed already if it had that nose cone drag penalty code you spoke of recently. I would also wouldn't mine FAR or NEAR, except they add a lot of complicated options and settings that I don't care to try and figure out, AND you need a separate mod to keep it from making rockets a lot easier, which has a lot of settings and options of its own. I like to keep my mods small, simple and few, Modded KSP is unstable enough for me as it is.

[Leszek]

Wow, I had no idea I was an endangered species! I'm like an oblivious panda sliding down a snowbank without a care in the world. I guess I'd better get busy with the procreating...

I guess I just stick to what I'm used to. I have been eying your Stock Drag Fix, it would probably be installed already if it had that nose cone drag penalty code you spoke of recently. I would also wouldn't mine FAR or NEAR, except they add a lot of complicated options and settings that I don't care to try and figure out, AND you need a separate mod to keep it from making rockets a lot easier, which has a lot of settings and options of its own. I like to keep my mods small, simple and few, Modded KSP is unstable enough for me as it is.

NEAR has no settings at all.

FAR you can install and ignore the settings.

It does make rockets easier in that they don't need as much DV to get to orbit, but it also makes it harder in that if you don't fly right or design right you will lose the rocket. The improvement for getting into orbit isn't that great, 3600 VS 4500 so I don't use any mods to make that any harder. Having said that, that mod (whose name escapes me ATM) has a one button preset to fix that. Finally FAR has been getting more drag up high (and therefore taking away some of the DV advantage) and that is what is causing the DRE issues we are having.

Back to topic:

Starwaster, I have tried the settings you specified and my ships are now being destroyed during ascent. My rockets start with a 1.25 TWR, so it is not like I am bombing through the atmosphere. I have been playing with the multiplier setting and changing my ascent to a slower gravity turn to try to get higher before I speed up. I think I can fix that issue on my own but I figured I would say something and let you know all the same.

[Starwaster]

For ascent I would start earlier and more gradual. And / or I might have to increase shielding on nose cone pieces. Maybe you might increase density exponent to 0.6 but that means reentry heating starts later in your descent.

As as far as the poll I'm a bit surprised there are that few stock users given the problems posted on fairings not shielding payloads. FAR / NEAR might miss payload pieces at the edge but not the center. Between that and DRE's method as fallback, payloads should be shielded.

[FlowerChild]

As as far as the poll I'm a bit surprised there are that few stock users given the problems posted on fairings not shielding payloads.

The poll results might be a bit biased though. One thing to keep in mind, is that all BTSM players are using DR with stock aero, and I suspect the more mods people use (or the more issues they are currently experiencing with their particular configuration), the more likely they are to check mod threads and see things like polls as well

So, I think what you might be getting through the poll is more "how many people with this particular configuration are actively following the thread right now?"

Edited January 2, 2015 by FlowerChild

[Starwaster]

What, so BTSM players don't follow the DRE thread?

And how sure are you that all of them play only on stock aero?

[Jacke]

What, so BTSM players don't follow the DRE thread?

And how sure are you that all of them play only on stock aero?

Well, I play only BTSM right now. And I figure only FC and few of the longer players of BTSM follow the DR thread. And I bet most BTSM players use stock aero. It's the only way to keep our BTSM experiences at least close to one another so we can make useful comparisons. Once you replace stock aero, you've almost made a bigger change than even BTSM imposes. You have to fly every flight within an atmosphere differently. And account for it in many other mods too.

As FC can attest, I really, really want a better aero in stock, along the lines of FAR, including transonic and supersonic effects. And that should integrate DR as reentry is mostly a supersonically caused phenomenon. But Squad has to give us a standard that we can agree to go with. Hopefully in the next release.

[The Yellow Dart]

What, so BTSM players don't follow the DRE thread?

And how sure are you that all of them play only on stock aero?

I'd say flower child is mostly right about BTSM. When I was playing only BTSM, it was the only mod thread I really followed because BTSM isn't compatible with other mods. I would glance at interesting new ones but I wasn't going to install anything so why follow it? And if I had an issue with DRE, I would ask FC first since it uses his configs. And stock aero is a requirement for the balance to work, most players know that and the vast majority comply. Every now and then somebody asks about a mod, usually FAR, in the BTSM thread and it is instantly clear they didn't read a word of the OP.

[Starwaster]

I'd say flower child is mostly right about BTSM. When I was playing only BTSM, it was the only mod thread I really followed because BTSM isn't compatible with other mods. I would glance at interesting new ones but I wasn't going to install anything so why follow it? And if I had an issue with DRE, I would ask FC first since it uses his configs. And stock aero is a requirement for the balance to work, most players know that and the vast majority comply. Every now and then somebody asks about a mod, usually FAR, in the BTSM thread and it is instantly clear they didn't read a word of the OP.

Well if that's truly the case then it doesn't matter if the poll is biased or not. If I take the last few posts at face value then BTSM players essentially exist in their own world and no changes I make to the configs will affect them since FlowerChild is overriding them with his own to fit the BTSM world. In fact I suppose it's better if they don't respond to the poll since I'm only looking to see what kind of impact any config changes I make will have players.

[Benf207]

Does anyone know why the inflatable heat shield is inflated on the launch pad? I can't seem to get it to stay in its fairing.

[Jacke]

Does anyone know why the inflatable heat shield is inflated on the launch pad? I can't seem to get it to stay in its fairing.

There's an issue with its animation that makes it weird; it also can't be resolved by what files the current maintainers of the mod have access to.

When you use it, you just install the part and leave it alone. Only inflate it in flight when you need it. Edit the spacecraft and get rid of the part, then select a new one and mount it and don't touch it until flight use.

[Starwaster]

Also, see the first post for some heat shield pack links. The ADEPT is a deployable high drag shield like the inflatable. Only it looks nicer and doesn't have animation issues that confuse the animation module.

No really, it looks really nice.

[FlowerChild]

Well if that's truly the case then it doesn't matter if the poll is biased or not. If I take the last few posts at face value then BTSM players essentially exist in their own world and no changes I make to the configs will affect them since FlowerChild is overriding them with his own to fit the BTSM world. In fact I suppose it's better if they don't respond to the poll since I'm only looking to see what kind of impact any config changes I make will have players.

Yup, that's of course true. However, what I was trying to point out is that polls of this kind are not so much asking "how many players use this particular configuration?" as much as "how many people actively following the thread are using this configuration?" and that can vary rather wildly based on who follows the thread and when.

For example, if people are having problems using DR in combination with FAR, I think it reasonable to expect that you'd have a higher number of FAR users actively following the thread at that particular time, as they'd be looking for potential solutions. Same if that were the case with stock aero, or if for example there was an incompatibility between DR and RemoteTech or something, you'd expect a higher number of RemoteTech users to be active here.

Maybe I'm just pointing out the obvious that all stats are affected by the context in which they are collected, with the potential of invalidating the results.

And how sure are you that all of them play only on stock aero?

Can't be entirely certain there of course, but I'd say it's probably true for 90%+ of them. FAR/NEAR really does not go well with BTSM as the progression is essentially broken with it installed, including having to take rather extraordinary measures just to stop all your rockets burning up on ascent in the first couple of tech levels due to the thinner atmosphere (and beyond that point much of the challenge of progressing in the mod is nullified by the lower deltaV requirements).

Edited January 4, 2015 by FlowerChild

[Hetsin]

Second this. My reentries are not depleting the ablative shield at all on the default settings with NEAR installed.

Even stuff without ablative shields can survive.

I'm having a similar issue with NEAR, except that during lower reentry (~20km to 30km) -for some reason- the Mk I Pod intregal shield, the DRE 1.25 m shield and the 1.25 m conical Oblivion shield stop using ablative shielding for a few seconds (~3 to 5) before resuming to use it. That repeats 3 or 4 times per reentry. Higher up (~30km to 35km) the ablative shield will rapidly switch between not being used and having minor usage (~0.03/sec). This is on the Normal DRE setting. Overall, from a 85x30 reentry I'm using ~60 to 80 ablative shield units. Incidentally, a Mk1-2 pod with the included 1000 unit heat shield nearly burned up from a 120x30 decent with ~0.7T extra. In short, DRE is behaving oddly with NEAR since the update to .90.

The only things I think it could be is that DRE is 'cooling' the shield as is ablates or NEAR has messed with something that DRE assumed to be true. As far as I know, both DRE and NEAR are updated on my system. I'll probably switch back to FAR if it isn't having this issue. If more info is needed, I can provide it.