[1.2] Real Solar System v12.0 Dec 8

[NathanKell]

SpacedInvader: yup, sounds like MeshWrapper is failing for the Moon then. Since that's supposedly what RSS is doing too but it's obviously failing.

jebandhisfriends: Sounds like a bad install. Please use the Mod Bundler instead.

manuelasa1999: Install gone wrong. You have a GameData folder inside your GameData folder, and I'm guessing that other mods also had (more subtle) installation errors. Try wiping your mods and install again, one by one, *exactly* following each readme's install instructions. If that fails, try the mod bundler linked above.

[SpacedInvader]

SpacedInvader: yup, sounds like MeshWrapper is failing for the Moon then. Since that's supposedly what RSS is doing too but it's obviously failing.

This also holds true for Mars. I've not tried yet with Venus or Mercury. I have tried forcing a rebuild by changing the scale factor and by increasing the radius by 1 meter, but neither worked unfortunately. I also tried running the config with the first run of a new install just in case it could intercept the first built of the scaled space mesh, but unfortunately, this also didn't work. Since I'm guessing there won't be a fix for this right away, I'm going to let it be for now and continue working on the planets. I've almost got Venus done, but Mercury should be interesting because we only have elevation data for the Northern Hemisphere thanks to the highly elliptical orbit of the Messenger spacecraft. I'm thinking about using the surface photo as a height map and then using the actual elevation model as a guide to add or subtract elevation from the image.

EDIT: I should also add that this release I'm planning isn't going to be very polished, but I wanted to push it out anyway to give everyone who wants more interesting terrain something to explore ASAP. I have plans to go back and touch up all of the issues in the near future.

Edited April 23, 2014 by SpacedInvader

[SpacedInvader]

Ok, so I'm looking for some suggestions on how to get rid of some artifacts in the Venus maps now before they are done.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

As you can see, the way the images were generated has left curving stripes near the top and bottom in some areas. And on the colorized radar mosaic there are stripes all over the place. Now, ideally, we would be using rbray89's clouds to create a virtually solid layer masking the entire surface, so the color image wouldn't be as important, but I'm guessing there will be at least some people who are either not going to want, or are not able, to use that mod. As a result, I think I've got to try and find a way to clean up this image to an acceptable degree, but again, my photoshop skills aren't all that strong, so suggestions would be appreciated. I've also thought about the possibility of creating an orange / yellow map where the tone is directly influenced by the height map, as that would probably result in something similar to this, but without as many artificial lines. That being said, the height map still has lines which will need to be cleaned up to a degree and I'd like some suggestions there as well.

[Benoit Hage]

Hello again Nathan.

Concerning the Manuelasa1999's bug, (post 2500) I have experienced the same bug and I'm fairly sure it's from EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements 7.3 LR as I and installed and tested my mods one by one. Everything seems fine until I install it. Remove it and the situation gets back to normal.

Do you need my output_log.txt?

[pingopete]

Ok, so I'm looking for some suggestions on how to get rid of some artifacts in the Venus maps now before they are done.

http://imgur.com/a/EdzH5

As you can see, the way the images were generated has left curving stripes near the top and bottom in some areas. And on the colorized radar mosaic there are stripes all over the place. Now, ideally, we would be using rbray89's clouds to create a virtually solid layer masking the entire surface, so the color image wouldn't be as important, but I'm guessing there will be at least some people who are either not going to want, or are not able, to use that mod. As a result, I think I've got to try and find a way to clean up this image to an acceptable degree, but again, my photoshop skills aren't all that strong, so suggestions would be appreciated. I've also thought about the possibility of creating an orange / yellow map where the tone is directly influenced by the height map, as that would probably result in something similar to this, but without as many artificial lines. That being said, the height map still has lines which will need to be cleaned up to a degree and I'd like some suggestions there as well.

wow. looks amazing even as a 2d layer

[NathanKell]

Benoit: Yes, because I'm using EVE 7.3 and it's all fine.

(Given what the GameData folder looks like, I would be willing to bet it's an install error.)

SpacedInvader: that sounds reasonable for Mercury. Regarding Venus, while I see them on the color map, I'm not seeing them on the heightmap...don't doubt they're there, though. As to PS what I'd suggest normally would be clone stamp work, but you'd have to base it very closely on the heightmap...

[manuelasa1999]

SpacedInvader: yup, sounds like MeshWrapper is failing for the Moon then. Since that's supposedly what RSS is doing too but it's obviously failing.

jebandhisfriends: Sounds like a bad install. Please use the Mod Bundler instead.

manuelasa1999: Install gone wrong. You have a GameData folder inside your GameData folder, and I'm guessing that other mods also had (more subtle) installation errors. Try wiping your mods and install again, one by one, *exactly* following each readme's install instructions. If that fails, try the mod bundler linked above.

Thank you a lot!!!! I will try if this works, again thank you for the answer

[NathanKell]

Sure!

SpacedInvader: Wrapping problem confirmed. Now I'm getting null meshes for planets when I try to change them. I'll mess around some...

Also, after much pestering I'm adding a donation button to the OP. Please don't anyone feel pressured, though.

[SpacedInvader]

wow. looks amazing even as a 2d layer

Don't get too exited just yet. As can been seen in corrected images of the Venusian surface, the ground is actually black volcanic rock, only being made yellow by the atmospheric effects. As a result, I doubt I'm going to portray Venus as the bright, almost neon orange that you see in many of the NASA false color images, but rather a much more dull, murky yellow to simulate a dull surface being seen through an atmosphere heavy in sulfur dioxide. Don't forget, if you install rbray's clouds enhancement, we're going to be modding the clouds to be so thick that you won't see the surface from orbit at all.

Sure!

SpacedInvader: Wrapping problem confirmed. Now I'm getting null meshes for planets when I try to change them. I'll mess around some...

Also, after much pestering I'm adding a donation button to the OP. Please don't anyone feel pressured, though.

Ok, sounds good. I've started trying to touch up the height map for Venus, so we'll see just how well my limited photoshop skills are going to do at this job.

[NathanKell]

Confirmed the issue, and fixed it. However, it added a good 5-10 minutes to load time, so I'll clearly need to cache the meshes. Dang.

[SpacedInvader]

Confirmed the issue, and fixed it. However, it added a good 5-10 minutes to load time, so I'll clearly need to cache the meshes. Dang.

5-10 min on first load or on every load?

[NathanKell]

Every load, until I implement caching. First thereafter. I timed it; 9.5 minutes on the black screen that says loading (right before main menu).

[SpacedInvader]

Every load, until I implement caching. First thereafter. I timed it; 9.5 minutes on the black screen that says loading (right before main menu).

Ouch.. Though I guess it makes sense. When using the updater built into the in-game planet editor it takes 20-40 seconds for a single planet to reload, so expanding that out to all of the celestial bodies in the game would take quite some time.

[SpacedInvader]

Thinking about doing this for the color / normal maps for Venus for at least the short term.

The reality is that you'd never actually see the surface of the planet from orbit, and that color image is really just colorized radar rather than anything real that can be seen on the surface. With some tweaking, we can get the cloud surface to "evaporate" a reasonable distance above the ground to make landing possible, but not so high as to make it easy. I'm guessing we can also set rbray's clouds to cover the image for people who want to use them and have them work in a similar fashion. What are your thoughts?

The one problem I see with this is that there isn't really a high resolution image of the clouds of Venus. This is the 1440x720 image that was created by NASA by cloning the same image around the globe. There is also a slightly higher resolution image on this site, but the text is Chinese and I can neither read Chinese, nor get google translate to work on the page to find if there is any license information available.

[The-Bean]

The one problem I see with this is that there isn't really a high resolution image of the clouds of Venus. This is the 1440x720 image that was created by NASA by cloning the same image around the globe. There is also a slightly higher resolution image on this site, but the text is Chinese and I can neither read Chinese, nor get google translate to work on the page to find if there is any license information available.

Does there need to be a higher resolution image? Venus from space has been described as a giant pearl and very hard to distinguish difference between clouds without increasing the color / contrast. Not the best image, but I believe Venus would look more like this to the naked eye (this image is from Mariner 10):

IMO you should use the one you have now but make the darker clouds much closer color to the light ones. Unless you're wanting to have the exaggerated clouds for something more interesting to look at, which is understandable.

[Guest]

Thinking about doing this for the color / normal maps for Venus for at least the short term.

http://i.imgur.com/2WkVfeW.png

The reality is that you'd never actually see the surface of the planet from orbit, and that color image is really just colorized radar rather than anything real that can be seen on the surface. With some tweaking, we can get the cloud surface to "evaporate" a reasonable distance above the ground to make landing possible, but not so high as to make it easy. I'm guessing we can also set rbray's clouds to cover the image for people who want to use them and have them work in a similar fashion. What are your thoughts?

The one problem I see with this is that there isn't really a high resolution image of the clouds of Venus. This is the 1440x720 image that was created by NASA by cloning the same image around the globe. There is also a slightly higher resolution image on this site, but the text is Chinese and I can neither read Chinese, nor get google translate to work on the page to find if there is any license information available.

That sir is one wonderful looking Venus, wonderful clouds! Very close to IRL but the clouds are very nice to look at in the "in-game" environment!

question... what height do you plan on using for "cloud evaporation" so allow surface landings with out too much trouble? I am unsure what the highest point on Venus is myself but the wiki says:

"Located on Ishtar Terra, the more northern of the planet's two major highlands, Maxwell Montes is 11 kilometres (6.8 mi) high. It rises about 6.4 kilometres (4 mi) above and to the east of Lakshmi Planum, and is about 853 kilometres (530 mi) long by 700 kilometres (435 mi) wide. The western slopes are very steep, whereas the eastern slopes descend gradually into Fortuna Tessera. Due to its elevation it is the coolest (about 380 °C or 716 °F) and least pressurised (about 45 bar or 44 atm) location on the surface of Venus"

[NathanKell]

I think it's probably safe enough to just require EVE as a dependency, and use that for clouds; besides, rbray is currently implementing volume fog, too, so gas giants (and Venus) can have thick-as-soup atmosphere all the way down.

[Benoit Hage]

Hello Nathan.

Forget what I said about EVE 7.3 LR, I managed to have that bug without it, so what I stated about it was wrong.

The only problem I encounter with EVE 7.3 LR is at a far view distance from earth, the coulds texture start flickering. A bit like a lost signal on TV's. Yet, at a closer range, the texture are fine. When I play stock KSP, that mod is working perfectly, so I am a bit confused as to what can cause this. Anyway, it's probably not the proper thread to post in.

About the Manuelasa1999's bug (post 2500) I just can't manage to avoid it. Here are some screenshot about it. (1) (2) And here is my output_log.txt file. If it can help you help me...

Well it seems the height of KSC has been altered. From what I see, I'm in Florida, so coordonates are ok, but not at the good altitude. Do you think it's the stock altitude that causes this? (75 If i'm correct)

Anyway, can you tell me where I can find the file that configurates this? So, at the same time, I can place my KSC in Kourou. (If anyone has already done that, can you give me the proper height? I reckon the coords for the French Launchpad, for the ESA's first rocket Vega is 5.236N and 52.775W)

Many thanks in advance!

Cheers,

Ben.

[regex]

It occured to me that a GUI to change the location of KSC on the fly might be really cool, especially to support a more role-playing oriented save. I am going to take a stab at this tonight, do you see any potential pitfalls in this plan, NathanKell?

[NathanKell]

I see no pitfalls with other people doing things for RSS

(I had planned such a thing, but then HoneyFox fixed Kerbtown and I figured it wasn't so necessary anymore.)

Make sure it's, say, only accessible from VAB or SPH? (Not a view where there actually is an active PQS--don't know what would happen if rebuilding a PQS while visible) and that you call mod.OnSetup after changing the mods and then RebuildSphere.

[regex]

(I had planned such a thing, but then HoneyFox fixed Kerbtown and I figured it wasn't so necessary anymore.)

KerbTown already does this? Hrm...

Make sure it's, say, only accessible from VAB or SPH? (Not a view where there actually is an active PQS--don't know what would happen if rebuilding a PQS while visible) and that you call mod.OnSetup after changing the mods and then RebuildSphere.

I think I'll do it from the ?recruitment? screen, or maybe the Tracking Station? Yeah, that's something to keep in mind. Thanks.

[NathanKell]

Recruitment is just a GUI overlay, IIRC. Tracking station is actually another screen. (You can tell because the clickbug goes away when you enter and leave tracking on first load to spacecenter, but it persists when you go into and out of recruitment or R&D).

Benoit: saw post, will respond.

[regex]

Recruitment is just a GUI overlay, IIRC. Tracking station is actually another screen. (You can tell because the clickbug goes away when you enter and leave tracking on first load to spacecenter, but it persists when you go into and out of recruitment or R&D).

Tracking station, then, thanks. I'll let the thread know if I can get it working tonight.

[Benoit Hage]

Benoit: saw post, will respond.

Cool! No rush are needed though.

During this time i'm trying to figure out the proper location of a possible Kourou space center, as the coords mentionned on wikipedia put me in the sea... few kilometers north

I found the cfg in the RSS folder! He who searches, will find! Sort of... I haven't found a way to set the height of the KSC in that cfg yet. The moveksc mod doesnt work on my game.

Quick question, the current location of the KSC is loaded during the game loading or during the save loading?

[SpacedInvader]

Does there need to be a higher resolution image? Venus from space has been described as a giant pearl and very hard to distinguish difference between clouds without increasing the color / contrast. Not the best image, but I believe Venus would look more like this to the naked eye (this image is from Mariner 10):

https://planetariumweb.madison.k12.wi.us/files/planetarium/Venus.jpg

IMO you should use the one you have now but make the darker clouds much closer color to the light ones. Unless you're wanting to have the exaggerated clouds for something more interesting to look at, which is understandable.

That does make some sense, I'll start working on flattening out the image and blurring it some. The idea here is to have a good enough looking placeholder image that we don't need to try and use that false color radar image to depict a surface that we should not be able to see anyway...

EDIT: I just spent a few mins with photoshop and produced this:

That sir is one wonderful looking Venus, wonderful clouds! Very close to IRL but the clouds are very nice to look at in the "in-game" environment!

question... what height do you plan on using for "cloud evaporation" so allow surface landings with out too much trouble? I am unsure what the highest point on Venus is myself but the wiki says:

"Located on Ishtar Terra, the more northern of the planet's two major highlands, Maxwell Montes is 11 kilometres (6.8 mi) high. It rises about 6.4 kilometres (4 mi) above and to the east of Lakshmi Planum, and is about 853 kilometres (530 mi) long by 700 kilometres (435 mi) wide. The western slopes are very steep, whereas the eastern slopes descend gradually into Fortuna Tessera. Due to its elevation it is the coolest (about 380 °C or 716 °F) and least pressurised (about 45 bar or 44 atm) location on the surface of Venus"

Right now I'm thinking somewhere in the 50km range. I know this is quite high, but going much lower leads to bad pixelation in the surface of the planet before the switch to PQS generated terrain, and even at that altitude, you can clearly see the pixels. Once we get EVE configured, I'm thinking we should allow for a breakout around 10km mostly because vertical visibility is almost always better than horizontal visibility through clouds / fog, and if you look at the Venera surface images, it looks like you might be able to get about 1-2 km visibility. I would also mention that by the time you get to 50km, you're pretty much committed to a landing region, with only the ability to fine tune the exact location unless you have oodles of delta-v to waste on climbing back out through the atmosphere to reattempt a landing zone.

I think it's probably safe enough to just require EVE as a dependency, and use that for clouds; besides, rbray is currently implementing volume fog, too, so gas giants (and Venus) can have thick-as-soup atmosphere all the way down.

I'm looking forward to that, though I still think it prudent to include a placeholder image of the cloud surface for those who for one reason or another won't be using EVE. That said, the clouds should happily cover the image when being used and if configured correctly, the image would never be seen by someone using EVE.

EDIT: @Nathan: Is there a way to get rid of the ridiculously high level of reflectivity? Right now I can't tell if its because of the oceans of Eve (though time warp doesn't get rid of it, so unless Venus is tidally locked, eventually the oceans should move on) or if its because of the normal map I used, which is all black then generated into the normal, but the clouds should definitely not look like a glass surface.

Edited April 24, 2014 by SpacedInvader