Now-defunct-thread-that-should-not-appear-in-google-search.

[Soda Popinski]

It'll have to wait because I'm thoroughly enjoying my first KSP missions in months. MONTHS I TELL YE. http://i.imgur.com/OdOmIIu.jpg

Don't take us too seriously. Have fun. You deserve it.

[Cilph]

Don't take us too seriously. Have fun. You deserve it.

Guilt-tripping me are you now? Fine, I'll get some work in tonight. Don't hit me. joking

[hedzup456]

Cilph, I just had an idea. (That has probably been suggested but I cannot find it.)Assume CSAT ONE is in GKO with a connection to KSC and CSAT TWO (or above, such as CSAT THREE so on) does NOT have a connection to KSC. With "Active vessel", why not "group" all satellites with a connection to CSAT TWO *as* CSAT TWO. For example, if I have a ship in Duna orbit, with a Kerbin satellite set up to relay to "Active Vessel". The ship in Duna orbit drops of a science pod, which would NOT connect to Kerbin relay. It does, however, have a connection to the Duna mothership. If the Kerbin relay targeted the Mothership via "active vessel", and the AV grouping system was implemented, the science probe would still be connected. If you like, I'll draft up an image that'll probably explain it better.

[Cilph]

Cilph, I just had an idea. (That has probably been suggested but I cannot find it.)Assume CSAT ONE is in GKO with a connection to KSC and CSAT TWO (or above, such as CSAT THREE so on) does NOT have a connection to KSC. With "Active vessel", why not "group" all satellites with a connection to CSAT TWO *as* CSAT TWO. For example, if I have a ship in Duna orbit, with a Kerbin satellite set up to relay to "Active Vessel". The ship in Duna orbit drops of a science pod, which would NOT connect to Kerbin relay. It does, however, have a connection to the Duna mothership. If the Kerbin relay targeted the Mothership via "active vessel", and the AV grouping system was implemented, the science probe would still be connected. If you like, I'll draft up an image that'll probably explain it better.

I catch your drift. However with the cone of vision now also applying to regular targets this will be unnecessary. You'll most likely have your mothership in range so it would keep having a signal.

[hedzup456]

I catch your drift. However with the cone of vision now also applying to regular targets this will be unnecessary. You'll most likely have your mothership in range so it would keep having a signal.

Okay, neat. cheers!

[Mecripp]

I think his Group Targeting will replace and be better the then Active Vessel for most people, and soon we will forget Active Vessel and think how can we live with out Group Targeting.

[AndreyATGB]

I think his Group Targeting will replace and be better the then Active Vessel for most people, and soon we will forget Active Vessel and think how can we live with out Group Targeting.

I don't think group targeting and active vessel are related. I use active vessel so I don't have to switch all the time to the relay if I fly a single mission, so basically for anything that isn't a station or permanent lander. Group would be nice to simply have a connection to Kerbin for examples, so I can put all my long range Kerbin sats in one group and have probes target it.

Basically the way I understand it, groups act as one satellite and that's not the same as active vessel.

[Ratzap]

I have a save file with a weird RT2 problem. If I orbit the Mun once more - no connection pops up. I am well within omni range of 3 sats and have a direct dish connection with whatever I pick from about 7 sats. Doesn't matter how I set it up, one more orbit and it's no connection. Plenty of power, nothing in alt-f2. I have no idea what's going on.

In the end I stopped looking and just did a landing where I was instead just to keep going.

[Mecripp]

I don't think group targeting and active vessel are related. I use active vessel so I don't have to switch all the time to the relay if I fly a single mission, so basically for anything that isn't a station or permanent lander. Group would be nice to simply have a connection to Kerbin for examples, so I can put all my long range Kerbin sats in one group and have probes target it.

Basically the way I understand it, groups act as one satellite and that's not the same as active vessel.

But if you pick a sat with groups targeting that's connected to ksp it's the same and when you change vessel you should lose your connection, When you decouple your sat and change vessel your still good to go where active vessel your not.

[Mecripp]

I have a save file with a weird RT2 problem. If I orbit the Mun once more - no connection pops up. I am well within omni range of 3 sats and have a direct dish connection with whatever I pick from about 7 sats. Doesn't matter how I set it up, one more orbit and it's no connection. Plenty of power, nothing in alt-f2. I have no idea what's going on.

In the end I stopped looking and just did a landing where I was instead just to keep going.

Mun is to far from kerbin for omni range and any of the 7 sat's pointing at the vessel your wanting it to ? if you are using dts-m1 and target mun from kerbin and kerbin to mun and have line of sight you should have connection, pic would be nice.

[Ratzap]

Mun is to far from kerbin for omni range and any of the 7 sat's pointing at the vessel your wanting it to ? if you are using dts-m1 and target mun from kerbin and kerbin to mun and have line of sight you should have connection, pic would be nice.

No, I have a full set of sats round the Mun (this is the realism size stuff so 3 sats at 40,000km each with omni range 50,000km). There should be at least 10,000km of slop in it with the lander also using a 50,000km omni and one 500,000km dish pointing back at one of my dish buses back at Kerbin.

[Mecripp]

No, I have a full set of sats round the Mun (this is the realism size stuff so 3 sats at 40,000km each with omni range 50,000km). There should be at least 10,000km of slop in it with the lander also using a 50,000km omni and one 500,000km dish pointing back at one of my dish buses back at Kerbin.

Did you decouple from a craft if so that's 1 of the bugs the spu doesn't turn back on look at the probe or command core you should see SPU: operational if not it's not going to connect.

Not to be rude but it doesn't matter RSS or not as long as RT2 is scaled 2

just that the range is scaled to match the rescale

EDIT If you are out of range in normal your going to be out of range in the rescale thats all.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Mecripp2

[Ratzap]

Did you decouple from a craft if so that's 1 of the bugs the spu doesn't turn back on look at the probe or command core you should see SPU: operational if not it's not going to connect.

Not to be rude but it doesn't matter RSS or not as long as RT2 is scaled 2

Nope, I have another quicksave with it in now. The routing from Kerbin via Mun coms 3 to Mun coms 1 and down to the lander simply stops at a point where 3 is out of omni range of 1 but there is still a dish link between them. I let it warp to where 3 is back in omni range for 1 and the lander gets a connection back. I think I'll move them all in another 10,000 km and add another sat just to be sure there are no holes.

I mentioned RSS so you wouldn't think 'omni doesn't go that far, what's he on about'. It's scaled, comes with the pack.

[Cilph]

So, I have an extra copy of KSP sitting in my steam inventory. Think I should do some sort of competition, or perhaps give it away based on quality contribution? Building contest?

[Mecripp]

Why Not and Cilph Please can we get Dish range to target back ?

Edited January 29, 2014 by Mecripp2

[cardajowol]

I have a problem I sent a sat to eve, made a wrong move and went back to a quick save soon as I went back all my dishes, omni antenna... magically turned them selves off and no longer targetting stuff... its getting a real pain now -.-

[match]

Did some quick math examples (which I confirmed in a sandbox):

Mission Control (75 Mm) communicating with a Communotron 16 (2,5 Mm)

Max Distance = 2,5 Mm (smallest one) + square root of (2,5 Mm * 75 Mm) = ±16 Mm. That's well past the Mün.

GX-128 (400 Gm) communicating with DTS-M1 (50 Mm)

Max Distance = 50 Mm (smallest one) + square root of (50 Mm * 400 Gm) = ± 4,5 Gm. That's over 90 times the range.

GX-128 (400 Gm) communicating with 88-88 (40 Gm)

Max Distance = 40 Gm (smallest one) + square root of (40 Gm * 400 Gm) = 166 Gm. That's over 4 times the range.

What does this mean for common combinations and distances.

Twin 88-88's could never reliably cover Kerbin - Dres (if both were directly opposite the distance > 40 Gm).

With a KR-14 in Kerbin orbit and an 88-88 on your probe you can now reach Kerbin even if the phase angle is almost 180° (naturally not exactly 180° because then Kerbol is in the way).

Previously Kerbin - Jool or Kerbin - Eeloo would require a combination of any of the GX-128 and CommTech-1.

With this option, a GX-128 in Kerbin orbit can talk to a probe carrying a 88-88 even if it's orbiting Eeloo while Eeloo is at it's apoapsis.

Suggested settings halve the range to keep the original design distances intact (more or less):

RangeMultiplier = 0.5

Best description I can muster is that instead of using the lesser of the two ranges to determine if the two dishes can talk, picture a string extending from each dish, the length being the range of the dish. If the two strings can touch, the dishes can connect. For two similar dishes, there is no difference from standard settings (if you halve the range multiplier). For dissimilar dishes, the distance is somewhere between the two.

Edit: My example is not correct... that would better describe the omni's behavior... the dishes skew the distance in relation to the magnitude of difference between the dishes.

Edited January 30, 2014 by match

[BjornKerbannigan]

Omni's can't even talk to Kerbin with Comm16's. Not at geostationary. With 3 satellites set equal distance they can't even cover each other. Those omni's aren't doing much. There's gaping holes in coverage.

Rule 1: Handshakes. Everyone that needs to shake hands needs to have a hand to shake with. If you need to shakes hands with 5 people at the same time, you'd better have 5 hands and your arms can't be shorter than anyone else.

Rule 2: There is no rule 2. You're doing it all wrong if you're still here looking for rule 2.

Added rule 2 as my Sig!

[Wyrmshadow]

This may have already been discovered... but I just tried to use Thunder Aerospace Part Lister.. and it negated all the functionality of this mod.

[Shania_L]

Hi, I am in equal parts loving and cussing this mod for making me work hard to do things !!

I am at the moment looking to break out into interplanetry space having spent so much time doing Mun/Minmus missions so I need to start putting up some long range dishes, what do people suggest/use for themselves to support probe based exploration of Duna/Eve?

This is my current network, It is all built of omni (2.5 and a few 5Mm in the later satelites) with the folding 50Mm dishes doing the majority of the distance work.

I have a lower ring of 4 probes around Kerbin at 500km each with a 2.5Mm and twin 50Mm dishes. Then I have a pair of geo-stationary probes one slightly ahead and one behind the KSC so they can peek around opposite sides of the planet, they carry the 5Mm, twin 50Mm and one of them has my only long range dish a 60Gm I think it is reflectron? the big white fixed dish.

Then I have a ring of 3 sats each around Mun and Minmus with 5Mm omni and 90Mm dishes.

The only long range dish I posess at this time, sat in Geo-orbit.

I am interested in how people control landings at distant planets when you do not have a comn-net setup yet, do you have to send a relay as well as the lander in the same mission?

As for at the Kerbin end, where is it best to place my recieving nodes to ensure minimal loss of signal, and the ability to reach distant planets.

I am playing career mode, so I do not have full access to all the highest tech yet, but I think Duna/Eve should be within my grasp.

[RoboRay]

I am interested in how people control landings at distant planets when you do not have a comn-net setup yet, do you have to send a relay as well as the lander in the same mission?

I try to send an orbiter probe first and keep it in-place as a relay. If there is no suitable orbiting relay, or if I want a second relay for better coverage, the lander will include an orbiter to leave up.

As for at the Kerbin end, where is it best to place my recieving nodes to ensure minimal loss of signal, and the ability to reach distant planets.

My two deep-space links at Kerbin are in highly-elliptical polar orbits, with apoapsis either over the North Pole or over the South Pole. Ap is just inside Kerbin's SOI, further out than Minmus (if Minmus was in a polar orbit, anyway), and Pe is about 200km so I don't have these things screaming through my populated equatorial belt in LKO. They spend most of their time hovering high up over the poles for weeks, then drop down and zip over the opposite pole before flinging themselves back out and away from the planet.

This ensures that they pretty much always have sunlight to power their systems and that their line of sight to other planets doesn't get blocked by Kerbin or the Mun. There are brief outages as they make their flybys of Kerbin, but the Zenith and Nadir Relays have their orbits synchronized so that one of them is always at Ap while one of them is at Pe. Due to their low velocities near Ap, they are both usually far, far away from Kerbin.

I chose this configuration over a wide, circular polar orbit because that would still leave the relays in shadow or blocked by Kerbin for significant periods of time. The high eccentricity results in more outages, but they are much shorter. And the other relay is generally always available if one of them is blocked. The polar orbit is important because it gets the satellites away from Kerbin's orbital plane and minimizes obstructions.

Edited January 30, 2014 by RoboRay

[AndreyATGB]

Nice setup idea, I use 5 GEO sats that are all connecting to a rather big relay in a polar orbit at 25Mm (about half way between Mun and Minmus). The station handles most connections, with the only other option being to use my very recent low-Kerbol relays. The station pretty much never loses connection because of Kerbin blocking it, it hasn't happened yet in the 3 years it's been there. I plan on putting up some sats at Eeloo's orbit so I should get a connection in most of the system on either side of the planets which should help with orbital insertions with probes.

[Shania_L]

Hmm, the eccentric orbits sounds like an interesting concept, should be a fairly simple system to setup too I will probably be able to use my current Geo-sat design as well. With the low Pe de-commissioning at end of life will be pretty easy too, as I currently do not have a dish with more than 60Gm range I will have to replace them sooner rather than later anyway.

A Kerbol relay is another attractive concept, a simple 3-way relay in low orbit should give permanent contact to any planet. It is a much harder system to deploy and with the range limitations of my current tech level it is beyond my abilities, but it is certainly attractive for a late-game system quite elegent especially if combined with a KSPI antimatter collection array,... mmm the mind spins and ideas form waaay beyond my abilities atm

[whokickmydog]

Is there a way to get the flight camera to target planets outside kerbin's SOI? I have the hull camera mod that adds a space telescope able to see planets from inside kerbin's SOI but if I target them and then tell the flight camera to point at the target, it points prograde, not that the target. Is this a bug or is it not able to point at targets not in the SOI, or not at planets at all? Because it cant even point at the mun if targeted.

[Agathorn]

Hi Cilph,

Is there an API that would allow another mod to query RT2 to determine if a valid control connection exists?