NASAFanboy Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 ISS is funded under its very own line item. Commercial Crew is funded under Exploration, which also includes SLS and the MPCV. ISS gets $3 billion per year by itself, from NASA alone, not including funds from other space agencies.The issue here is that you make broad generalizations that are either unsupported by data or are so vague as to be meaningless. The Science budget as a whole is the single largest part of NASA's budget, followed by Space Operations, then Exploration (which includes the SLS and CCdev.) It's hard to parse the budget to figure out NASA's priorities, but it's simply untrue that NASA's other operations are being sidelined in favor of the SLS. It's also untrue that NASA's budgets are low; they are, in fact, historically high (excepting the anomalous Apollo years.) The biggest takeaway I see in the budget is that NASA, like any conservative organization, prioritizes operations over development and planning. Hence the ISS getting a huge and increasing chunk of change every year.Yes, there is a ton of money being spent on the SLS and Orion. NASA is a big organization, though. It has quite a few irons in the fire. And thank god: how much less would we know about the solar system without all those planetary sciences robotic missions? How much less about the universe without the astrophysics telescopes? There's a certain sense in which we subvert the acquisition of actual knowledge when we focus on putting boots on alien soil.Personally, I value achievements and fast colonization first, planetary science second, and Earth science last.I don't know, it's just that I value a moonbase more than extremely detailed images of stars and nebulas along with tons of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crush Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) On the design and improvement side, I have been nothing but impressed with how good Chinese companies are willing to listen to problems and deal with them when compared to leading European manufacturers.That's because the Chinese don't care that much about trivialities like human rights of their workers. When a western customer calls a Chinese manufacturer and wants some production change, they have no scruple to wake their factory workers at 2am and have them work for 20 hours to retool the factory.Currently the Chinese government does their best to prevent worker unrest, but it is just a question of time until the Chinese workers will notice the gross differences in working conditions. Then China will face mass strikes and civil unrest. The Chinese government will likely suppress these violently like they usually do, but even that will leave a dent in their efficiency. Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, there is a massive pressure on Western companies to improve efficiency to compete with Chinese companies, which means that they also need to treat their workers worse.There are two possible outcomes. Either working conditions in the rest of the world will get worse so they can compete with China, or the working conditions in China will improve, which means the end of cheap and efficient labor. Personally I believe we will see a mix of both. Edited November 8, 2013 by Crush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASAFanboy Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 That's because the Chinese don't care that much about trivialities like human rights of their workers. When a western customer calls a Chnese manufacturer and wants some production change, they have no scruple to wake their factory workers at 2am and have them work for 20 hours to retool the factory.Currently the Chinese government does their best to prevent worker unrest, but it is just a question of time until they will notice the gross differences in working conditions and they will face mass strikes. On the other side, there is a pressure on western companies to improve efficiency to compete with Chinese companies, which means that they also need to treat their workers worse.There are two possible outcomes. Either working conditions in the rest of the world will get worse so they can compete with China, or the working conditions in China will improve, which means the end of cheap and efficient labor. Personally I believe we will see a mix of both.From what I've heard, many in the Chinese goverment are trying to get better rights for workers, but are afraid that means that the US will once again experience mass economical growth from that.Some Chinese companies are notorious for false labelling and horrible quality control. Sooner or later, the world is going to realize this, and China, while retaining its industrial strength, will face slower growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Shifty Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 From what I've heard, many in the Chinese goverment are trying to get better rights for workers, but are afraid that means that the US will once again experience mass economical growth from that.Some Chinese companies are notorious for false labelling and horrible quality control. Sooner or later, the world is going to realize this, and China, while retaining its industrial strength, will face slower growth.What is your source for these statements? I can assure you that China is not basing its economic agenda on trying to stifle the United States. I'd note also that some American companies are notorious for false labeling and horrible quality control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASAFanboy Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 What is your source for these statements? I can assure you that China is not basing its economic agenda on trying to stifle the United States. I'd note also that some American companies are notorious for false labeling and horrible quality control.I know that.But still, it's quite a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 No it's not. Stifling the united states economy stifles their own economy-they have to emport that stuff to somewhere, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASAFanboy Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 No it's not. Stifling the united states economy stifles their own economy-they have to emport that stuff to somewhere, you know.No, not in terms of that.They don't want to add minimum wage as to keep up industrial growth by US companies. I can't blame them either. Just think.US worker costs 34k per year.Chinese Worker costs 3K per year. Of course they're going to go with China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdatspace Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 More powerful than the Saturn V? I am skeptical about this. Sounds like propaganda.But if it is real, this is something to take very seriously. But nationalism aside, go China! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crush Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 But if it is real, this is something to take very seriously.What's to take serious about it? It's a pointless prestige object. It's only purpose is to pretend superiority through waste of resources. Like all manned space exploration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASAFanboy Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 What's to take serious about it? It's a pointless prestige object. It's only purpose is to pretend superiority through waste of resources. Like all manned space exploration.In all actuality, manned exploration is the only way for NASA to make a lasting legacy.Have you seen schools named Curiosity? Viking 1? Sojurner?No.But there are schools named John Glenn, Armstrong, Lovell, .etc.etc. Manned space exploration is the only way NASA can imprint upon society it's lasting legacy. Noone but the space fans remember Viking landers. Noone remembers Ranger, or Surveyor, or even LRO, but everyone remembers the Apollo moon landings.NASA needs to prioritize manned exploration if we ever wish to get anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crush Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) In all actuality, manned exploration is the only way for NASA to make a lasting legacy.Have you seen schools named Curiosity? Viking 1? Sojurner?No.But there are schools named John Glenn, Armstrong, Lovell, .etc.etc. Manned space exploration is the only way NASA can imprint upon society it's lasting legacy. Noone but the space fans remember Viking landers. Noone remembers Ranger, or Surveyor, or even LRO, but everyone remembers the Apollo moon landings.NASA needs to prioritize manned exploration if we ever wish to get anywhere.Yes! People to name things after! That's what our society wants. That's what out society NEEDS! All problems we have would vanish when we just have more people to name things after. After all, how could scientific progress ever be possible when we would run out of people to provide names for scientific discoveries?Where would we end up when the engineers would finally get the respect they deserve? Edited November 9, 2013 by Crush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASAFanboy Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Yes! People to name things after! That's what our society wants. That's what out society NEEDS! All problems we have would vanish when we just have more people to name things after. After all, how could scientific progress ever be possible when we would run out of people to provide names for scientific discoveries?Where would we end up when the engineers would finally get the respect they deserve?No, my point is, society needs heros of the space agencies. Manned spaceflight is the PR, of NASA. When people ask, "What does NASA do for me?", the first thing that comes to mind is spinoff's off the ISS and Space Shuttle technology. Not stuff like "Awesome Pictures of Galaxies", or "Mars rovers". Without manned spaceflight, I assure you, the popularity of the space agencies wil plummet.Besides, screw science. Are we here to reach for the stars, or to learn every bit of insignificant data about them while staying on this godforsaken mudball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotius Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 No, my point is, society needs heros of the space agencies. Manned spaceflight is the PR, of NASA. When people ask, "What does NASA do for me?", the first thing that comes to mind is spinoff's off the ISS and Space Shuttle technology. Not stuff like "Awesome Pictures of Galaxies", or "Mars rovers". Without manned spaceflight, I assure you, the popularity of the space agencies wil plummet.Besides, screw science. Are we here to reach for the stars, or to learn every bit of insignificant data about them while staying on this godforsaken mudball?Hey! No insulting Mother Earth here, please. It might be a mudball - but it is OUR mudball, it's our home and it's very best piece of property we know of. So show some respect for our homeworld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuttle Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Russian space program is corrupted, american space program is overloaded with greedy politicians, european space program is underfunded. Go China, I hope they will broadcast their manned moon landing on youtube! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Augustus_ Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Russian space program is corrupted, american space program is overloaded with greedy politicians, european space program is underfunded. Go China, I hope they will broadcast their manned moon landing on youtube! Nah, they'll broadcast it on Weibo xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuoDex Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Thread locked - please avoid necros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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