(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

[SSSPutnik]

That ship looks amazing! I have never used the Kethane mod either. Do all of the boxy structures come from it?

The boxy structures are from the LLL mod.

That's some serious ramp there.

[cube19]

hi,

i'm newly registerd to this Forum, but i've been following this Challenge for quite some time now.

And now i have my own ship to submit.

Its a Kethane SSTO, which was quite challening to build.

About the Ship

Weight on Launchpad: 379,130 t

Engines: 5 Orbital Bertha (2.5m) (Novapunch)

8 LV-T30

The LV-T30 are turned off, if the TWR is high enough without them, to get some more dV.

dV:

Amto dV with LV-T30: 5357 m/s

Amto dV without LV-T30: 5408 m/s

Vac dV with LV-T30: 6352 m/s

Vac dV without LV-T30: 6473 m/s

Crew: Jebediah

I used aside from Kethane the following Mods:

MechJeb, Protractor and Novapunch

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Since its a Sandbox game i don't have the Surfacesamples required for the Low-Mass-Challenge,

but i meet every other condition.

Similar like the other Kethane SSTO I refueled at Minmus first.

Then I tried to get to Jool directly, but it didn't work.

So i brought the Ship back to a 140km orbit around Kerbin, before executing the Transfer for Jool.

At Jool I tried to go to Vall first but my Vessel was too short of dV.

The Solution for my dV Shortage I was a Laythe Landing, since the Atmosphere would do most work for me.

But at Laythe i had another Problem, which was almost no Kethane on land.

After Laythe my dV was so low again, that Vall or Tylo were out of the Question.

So i decided to go to Pol, which was relatively easy.

After Pol the rest was not troublesome anymore since I always had enough dV and found enough Kethane.

Edited May 6, 2014 by cube19

[SSSPutnik]

Hi Cube19. Welcome to the forums!

Interesting design for sure. Quite large, but SSTO.

You may want to add points up?

[SSSPutnik]

New update.

2 mini bases docked to Osperus III. 2nd and last heavy shuttle with rover docked.

[Speeding Mullet]

New update.

2 mini bases docked to Osperus III. 2nd and last heavy shuttle with rover docked.

SSSputnik that is one incredible looking ship, so sci fi! Are you running an ongoing mission report, and can you link me if you are please? I was trying to design something sci fi for my mission. You succeeded, I designed something that looks like a 60's caravan.

I've updated my mission report, I've got Laythe out of the way, but there's serious pant browning issues for the crew.

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

I have been hard at work during some internet down-time (damn mobile sim died on me!) and have come up with a couple of interesting designs that I think will get me there and back, with some fuel freighters developed and on standby just in case!

Testing is being carried out on the landers while fuel is being transferred to the main part of the mothership, as testing helps avoid easily made mistakes like forgetting the computational nose-cone for the laythe lander...

still, part way through the planning and testing phases (with more to happen yet!) I'm starting to see that this is definitely a challenge for semi-pro's!

[shynung]

Planning to do this challenge, but I need to ask something first.

If I were to assemble the Jool-bound main ship in LKO, as opposed to launching them in one piece, would it break the rules specified in the OP? Even if said ships were launched with empty tanks and refueled in LKO?

Also, I am not very sure whether this particular lander is able to land on Tylo and get back to orbit safely:

It has 3 stages: a descent/crasher stage, similar in concept to the Soviet LK lander, and a two-stage crossfed lander vehicle, using an LV-T45 as the main engine (hidden in the middle shroud), and aerospikes everywhere else. Also carries an SC-9001 and a Mystery Goo^TM capsule (behind the 9001). Has a couple spherical RCS tanks between the boosters, but neither RCS thrusters nor solar panels.

Mechjeb says total ÃŽâ€v capacity is over the target 6500 m/s, as shown, but I have doubt in my piloting skills; the margin is razor-thin.

Any thoughts on how to improve it? Or should I just go for it anyway?

[cube19]

@SSSputnik:

I think I its better not to add up points. (they are negative )

@shynung:

You can send as many ships to LKO as you want. The important thing is that you send them as one Vessel to Jool. Additional refuelingships are allowed.

For your Lander.

Aerospikes aren't as easy to control as other engines so you might wanna add some RCS to help the reactionwheels in the Landercan.

You will also need some batteries or solarpanels in order to turn your Vessel when the engines aren't running.

The LV-T45 looks longer than your Landinglegs and you don't wanna land on it.

You should also test if your ladderdesign works since there is no jetpack on Tylo.

And if you are unsure about your dV, you could add some tanks since your TWR is high enough.

Edited May 7, 2014 by cube19

[SSSPutnik]

SSSputnik that is one incredible looking ship, so sci fi! Are you running an ongoing mission report, and can you link me if you are please? I was trying to design something sci fi for my mission. You succeeded, I designed something that looks like a 60's caravan.

I've updated my mission report, I've got Laythe out of the way, but there's serious pant browning issues for the crew.

I will start knocking up mission report. Ships mass is 1100t already... That some serious negative points Once fully fuelled I guestimate about 1500t, maybe.

On third, (and hopefully last) fuelling trip... Getting around 780t to LKO each launch. (A lot of that is unused launch tankage and booster engines).

What happened with your Laythe mission? Mission control are concerned about the cost of new suits for your crew and told them to "just air them out".

@cube19: Mines gonna be negative too, but its still a score ! I'll be starting at about -1500!

[Ziv]

I would like to submit the following Mission Log as my entry to this challenge.

I believe that this is a Level 2 submission. The mission plan was as follows:

- 6 spacers in total: Jeb, Bill, and Bob were the experienced ones, and Kenrie, Rodtop, and Lumy were the trainees

- each landing had to include at least one experienced spacer

- each landing was two Kerbals

- the trainees would be allowed to take control for landings on each of the smaller 3 moons, with a trainer along for supervision

- order of visits went Laythe, Tylo, Vall, Pol, Bop

- F9 was only permitted for incidents which completely killed the mission. Turned out that, with the exception of Tylo, only one was required, and that was during assembly.

- MJ was the only mod used. I used to have the NF Docking tool but haven't gotten it working in 23.5 yet.

- the mission had 10 comfy seats in total (6 in the lander cans, 4 in the HH can) which we felt was enough leg room

The original mission was designed in 22. I skipped right over 23 because I knew 23.5 was coming, plus I still had stuff to do in 22. However, ultimately I uploaded 23.5 at about the same time as my first attempt proved to be fatally underfuelled in 22, so I went ahead and relaunched in 23.5 The mission itself used no new 23.5 parts however.

DAISY-B was assembled in 4 pieces - the main drive went up first (this is documented). Then I sent up the twin Tylo/Laythe landers in two smaller launches to dock. Then the BVP lander was sent up with an even smaller launch.

My confession: prior to the BVP lander launch, I had to refuel the 20 nearly empty OT's. We drove to the space station (which I haven't used in a LONG time) and sucked up all fuel that we could, but still had a long way to go. Tried a couple of refuel missions with pre-23.5 designs, and they worked fine, but frankly they were pretty wimpy and would have required 40 or 50 missions to complete. So we used the new 23.5 parts and designed a whole new fuel supply ship which got >10,000 units of fuel to orbit, and completed refuelling in many fewer missions. SO, it's a 22 ship, but with help from 23.5

I wanted to avoid strapping the spacers to chairs, so every landing involved a 2-man lander can. This, plus the weight of the Tylo/Laythe landers, added a whale of a lot of oomph required for the whole mission. I started with a 10-OT design using the same landers, but realized after the Laythe landing that we were short on dV. Then I returned to the VAB and discovered that I could detach the 2x5 OT drive section, switch to 4X sym, and reattach - all fully strutted! - with a 4X5 OT drive section. Without further ado, off we went.

I did not worry about debris. I feel it can be collected and used by future generations of spacers.

I learned a lot from this challenge.

- I could have put HH cans onto each lander instead of the 2-man lander cans for the same weight and landed 4 Kerbals at each moon, but it seemed cheaty to me to not include an obvious "command spot"

- I got far far better at efficient maneuvers as the mission progressed

- MJ can not drive 20 OT ships, no matter how well balanced you think they are

- MJ can not land my BVP lander on small moons - I watched in fascination as it spun around and around the lander's center of mass about 4 KM above Pol until I grabbed control

- the strange glitch whereby a Kerbal disappears from the main view happened a number of times - could always be fixed by exiting and coming back

- really, REALLY make sure the fuel lines run in the right direction on your Tylo land/ascent vehicle

Thanks for the inspiration!

James_Eh: congratulation, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Level 2! Maybe your Laythe/Tylo landers were the most massive ones I've ever seen for this challenge. Special solution with the landing gears too. And I loved the funny comments for the photos!

Nice job, congratulations!!!

[Ziv]

hi,

i'm newly registerd to this Forum, but i've been following this Challenge for quite some time now.

And now i have my own ship to submit.

Its a Kethane SSTO, which was quite challening to build.

About the Ship

Weight on Launchpad: 379,130 t

Engines: 5 Orbital Bertha (2.5m) (Novapunch)

8 LV-T30

The LV-T30 are turned off, if the TWR is high enough without them, to get some more dV.

dV:

Amto dV with LV-T30: 5357 m/s

Amto dV without LV-T30: 5408 m/s

Vac dV with LV-T30: 6352 m/s

Vac dV without LV-T30: 6473 m/s

Crew: Jebediah

I used aside from Kethane the following Mods:

MechJeb, Protractor and Novapunch

http://imgur.com/a/BaPnt

Since its a Sandbox game i don't have the Surfacesamples required for the Low-Mass-Challenge,

but i meet every other condition.

Similar like the other Kethane SSTO I refueled at Minmus first.

Then I tried to get to Jool directly, but it didn't work.

So i brought the Ship back to a 140km orbit around Kerbin, before executing the Transfer for Jool.

At Jool I tried to go to Vall first but my Vessel was too short of dV.

The Solution for my dV Shortage I was a Laythe Landing, since the Atmosphere would do most work for me.

But at Laythe i had another Problem, which was almost no Kethane on land.

After Laythe my dV was so low again, that Vall or Tylo were out of the Question.

So i decided to go to Pol, which was relatively easy.

After Pol the rest was not troublesome anymore since I always had enough dV and found enough Kethane.

cube19: Congratulation, you finished the JOOL-5 Challenge with a Kethane SSTO! Your ship is very massive with a lot of fuel! Maybe you could use Nukes instead of LV-T30 for more dV? And yeah, legs are always crucials for these huge ships! Maybe you should use some big leg from other mods?

Nice job anyway!

[Ziv]

PS - I'm taking a break from serious playing and am trying to figure out how to get a wheeled vehicle onto this:

http://i.imgur.com/ybTvoeA.jpg

Hahh, that looks fun!!! Did you managed to put a wheeled vehicle on the top? you could do that with a stage separator on the back of the rover, maybe.

[Ziv]

A few pics of my Kethane version coming together.

Fuel launch.

https://moc-per.micromine.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=f348e9a6101bf6d43157d65748c9e7a4&download

Fuel arriving. (Giant 3.75m tank in centre)

https://moc-per.micromine.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=0f5a252716375bd21a834aae3a8953a7&download

Lander with rover/base heading for the Osperus III. (I used small boosters for an extra kick).

https://moc-per.micromine.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=5cd5d7e87e9d11cd3bc52b3a344e51dc&download

One lander attached. Balancing might be tricky, I think I have CoM OK.

https://moc-per.micromine.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=d98a3b61a883c9d6a6d3655eea99cd95&download

Still requires other rover/base and a variety of small base landers.

We have two Jool penetrators and 4 satellites loaded as well. (Hoping to set up a Remote Tech wireless link back to Kerbin and covering Jool system).

I'm using Infernal Robotics a bit. Spotlight on rover can be tilted and panned. The 'radiation' shields on the main ship can be angled depending on what the ship is doing. (They can be angled more when the solar panels are retracted).

The main antenna can be retracted into the antenna bay, it can also be extended on a boom and angled to point in the desired direction.

I'm going to lose a LOT of points on start mass, but I don't mind.

Wow, those ships looks really good!

[shynung]

Aerospikes aren't as easy to control as other engines so you might wanna add some RCS to help the reactionwheels in the Landercan.

You will also need some batteries or solarpanels in order to turn your Vessel when the engines aren't running.

The LV-T45 looks longer than your Landinglegs and you don't wanna land on it.

You should also test if your ladderdesign works since there is no jetpack on Tylo.

And if you are unsure about your dV, you could add some tanks since your TWR is high enough.

Thanks for the tip.

By the way, here is the revised lander:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[James_Eh]

Hahh, that looks fun!!! Did you managed to put a wheeled vehicle on the top? you could do that with a stage separator on the back of the rover, maybe.

Yes, a motorcycle which was propelled forwards with a stage separator. It was very hard to keep it on the ramp on the way down. I posted this somewhere else also, but below is an example of the usual result.

PS - So proud! My first post with the "Accomplished" ribbon!!! Can I be very nitpicky and ask that you include "no refueling" for me on the leaderboard? (edit - Oh rats! Where is my ribbon???)

[James_Eh]

Aha - I didn't do it right. Here we go!

[James_Eh]

Thanks for the tip.

By the way, here is the revised lander:

On Tylo the lander legs might not compress quite as far as on Kerbin. Would the ladder still be in reach if it was a little bit higher?

[Jasonden]

Here's an expedition-style entry:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Used an additional stage to get to the now-standard Minmus refueling, but then kept the same ship the rest of the way. Single rover with hopping capabilities that holds 4 Kerbals -- and I drove this a long way. Nearly 100km on Laythe, for instance (!).

Here's my calculation of the score breakdown (subject to Ziv's recalculation of course).

General:

+45 for 9 Kerbals

+10 for mobile lab

+40 Kethane back to Kerbin

+45 9 Kerbals all returned safely

+222.6 6678.1 science /30

-117 t in orbit

Laythe:

+10 Kethane Mining

+90 9 Kerbals on the ground

+20 rover

+50 Mobile Lab

+60 Experimental packages

+50 surface+water samples

Pol:

+10 Kethane Mining

+90 9 Kerbals on the ground

+20 rover

+30 Hopper (same as rover)

+50 Mobile Lab

+30 Experimental Packages

Tylo:

+20 Kethane Mining

+180 9 Kerbals landed

+40 rover

+100 Mobile Lab

+120 Experimental Packages

Bop:

+10 Kethane Mining

+90 9 Kerbals on the ground

+20 rover

+30 Hopper (same as rover)

+50 Mobile Lab

+30 Experimental Packages

Vall:

+10 Kethane Mining

+90 9 Kerbals on the ground

+20 rover

+50 Mobile Lab

+60 Experimental packages

Total: 1675 points

Edited May 9, 2014 by Jasonden

[betta21]

I see. I will do an experiment mission to Mun/Minmus to see if different samples can be stored in the same pod. I play in Career mode now and I'm curious how much science points can I collect with a huge mission like this...

But this Challenge is pretty hard even with only one Kerbal landing and returning from all the moons... so everybody is a winner who can achieve that!

Edited May 13, 2014 by sal_vager

[SSSPutnik]

Nice one. I think you are first for proper counting of score for this mission?

Just running mine through paces at the moment before departure. I think I have around 10,000dV!

Maximum acceleration with all full tanks - about 35cm/s

Mass firming at about 1350t

[Speeding Mullet]

SSSputnik - Airing out the suits lmao, that's pretty much exactly what mission control said!

Ziv Ziv Ziv. Your challenge swallowed up most of the last 3 months of my life, and I am extremely grateful for once again giving me purpose in KSP. I have completed and submit my complete mission report for your perusal and hopefully acceptance of a space suit well ruined. I've also copied the points below for your tracking purposes.

Mods:

Mechjeb

LLL (Dead weight only)

Mission Structure:

First Launch: Heat shield and all the fiddly bits

Second Launch: Living decks

Third Launch: POWER!

Total Ship Mass on Departure: 284 T

Total Part Count on Departure: 894 - bad times

Crew Manifest:

Erdrin, Maldan, Bilbin, Elrie, Seancas, Lulas, Joelin, Neilsy, Wehrger, Kiremy, Danfred, Kermal, Tomrick, Donzor, Neldon, Milton, Bartmund, Billy-Bobster, Chadfen, Dillling, Jebediah, Neilvis, Bob, Hanlorf, Derzer, Bobney, Kenmore, Wehrbal.

POINT LOGGING:

General:

28 Kerbals on mission: 140 points

Jool Impactor Probe: 20 points

Jool orbiting satellite: 20 points - Fail - ran out of power and fell into Jool

Main ship remains in orbit around Jool: 20 points

Mobile lab: 10 points

Nukes used: - 100 points

Kerbal Death: 0 points

Main ship is refuelled from a Kethane source: 50 points

Kethane sample bought back: 40 points

Kerbal return to Kerbin: 25 points

Initial full ship modifier: - 284 points

Points per moon:

Mining Kethane: 40 points

Mapping / communication satellite: 40 points

Kerbal Landed: 280 points

Surface Jumper: 120 points Fail - Laythe Jumper did not have enough power

Land a mobile lab: 150 points Win - landed on Pol, Bop, and Vall

Experimental package deployed: 120 points

Points for remaining base:

Remaining mining station: 40 points

Remaining jumper: 80 points

Remaining rover: 40 points

Living space: 80 points

Remaining Kerbal: 160 points

Mobile lab remains on surface: 20 points

Remaining mapping / communication satellite: 20 points

Laythe specials:

Surface plane: 90 points

TOTAL STARTING POINTAGE: 1121

POINTS LOST DURING MISSION: 50

POINTS GAINED DURING MISSION: 150

TOTAL POINTAGE: 1221

ADVICE NOT HEEDED

- don't try to maximise the points because you will end up with a huge lagging ship. Always check part counts!

- try and at least look at the delta V requirements for the system you are visiting.

[Kasuha]

I have completed and submit my complete mission report for your perusal and hopefully acceptance of a space suit well ruined.

Congratulations! Wow, that was one epic mission!

[8MMW]

I have finally completed my JOOL-5 mission. The challenge motivated me to push my Kerbals forward to where they have never been before - these were my first landings on Jool's moons (except Laythe).

Some info:

- 3rd level - 5 Kerbals, one for each moon

- 0.23.5 - I probably couldn't make it if weren't for the huge NASA parts and accompanying monstrous engines

- no refueling, no significant mods (only informative: KER, Enhanced Navball, Docking Alignment & Camera)

- 1.75 approaches:

-- 1/4 to realise the ship lacks a docking port and can't leave an empty tank when needed

-- 1/2 to find out that the lander doesn't have enough dV to reach Laythe orbit

-- final approach for the mission was a success from the beginning to the end. Lets assume the previous failures were just simulated on KSC computers

Javascript is disabled. View full album

_______________

I was playing around with the idea of a "ribbon style" challenge badge. I have created these:

(normal size) (small size)

They're not as good as the official challenge badge, but are definitely more compact. Feel free to use them if you like or let me know if you have some ideas of making them better

Edited May 10, 2014 by 8MMW

[James_Eh]

"Bill took a little detour" :

Why are those the funniest pix ever? I had Jeb do the same thing.

(edit: Then I looked at your team photo back on Kerbin and have started to wonder why Laythe's oceans are opaque. Investigation required!)

Edited May 10, 2014 by James_Eh

[Ziv]

Wow, I see there are some new awesome missions to check in-depth and add to the Hall of Fame! (if accepted - just to hold the tension until that! )

That's a shame that I don't have time to do that now (and even the weekend will be busy) but I'll try to do it soon!

Speeding Mullet: yeah, running this Challenge beside playing KSP swallowed my last months too!

But I always enjoy when I see some new brilliant design or solution! I also have tons of pictures about my playing (managed to lift a downed Asteroid to the top of the KSC, wandered around Urania with Kethane, designed an orbit-capable ion glider, etc) but when I want to upload them I've always got scared of the amount of work it needs...