(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

[Ziv]

Jasonden and Speeding Mullet: you are the only two who have finished the Kethane Expedition so far so I would ask you for your acceptance if I change the point system for the science: it is now divided by 30 which counted for only ~220 at Jasonden from the ~1600 points. I think this should be more because making science is always a lot of work both on design and executing.

So it should be changed to divided by 20, 15 or 10 only, what do you think? Especially you need to accept it Speeding Mullet because Jasonden will have more points. Hm, you did not count any science points, by the way?

Or if anybody else have an opinion on this, let me know.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Ziv

[Rakaydos]

Well, apparently not having a ladder means I need to launch new lander, but this is how I got my lander refueled. (warning, dark images)

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[SSSPutnik]

@Ziv - Some people, like myself, have zero interest in Science and/or career mode.

For me its all about build and function. I'm lugging some science probes on the Kethane Expedition purely for points even though they won't generate science I will get points for sending science probe here or there.

My two cents.

[Speeding Mullet]

Yo Ziv - I was playing in sandbox mode so I only counted the points for actually deploying the science packages and probes.

I'm also not really fussed about being top of the leader board. I could easily have landed all 27 brave crew on each moon and left the science hub on a moon for extra points so no pressure to split the league table into career and sandbox and no opinion from me on science. I'm just satisfied I finished and really enjoyed the challenge!

[Ziv]

All right, I decided that it will stay the same: science counts reasonable points but not too much loss if somebody doesn't want to fuss with science.

[Rakaydos]

My Jool 5 Expedition craft had a staging error- an asparagus stage clipped a lift engine without damaging the fuel tanks I'm using as drop tanks. Remaining capability after damage: 102%

[Kamuchi]

Greetings!

Mod approved my mission thread, the fun of being a nub

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79780-Jool-5-challange-The-KSP-Reluctence-WIP-Build-stage

Edited May 13, 2014 by Kamuchi

[Jasonden]

Jasonden and Speeding Mullet: you are the only two who have finished the Kethane Expedition so far so I would ask you for your acceptance if I change the point system for the science: it is now divided by 30 which counted for only ~220 at Jasonden from the ~1600 points. I think this should be more because making science is always a lot of work both on design and executing.

I'm okay with any scoring changes that you might elect to employ. It's true that Kerbal number gains large numbers of points because it gets you so many per-body -- 10 overall, 10 per moon, and then a +10 bonus for Tylo=+60 points per Kerbal. I didn't get as much science as I possibly could have, so I could see the advantage to incentivizing science more.

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

Currently putting my Tylo and Vall landers into orbit for attachement to my Mothership, hoping my designs hold up! been trying to not to look too closely at other's designs to try and come up with my own individual twist, and hoping I don't miss something that I'm sure will become obvious further into the challenge (heh, hindsight is a B**ch!)

and I turn around and find the aforementioned landers nosediving into the ocean.... thanks, mechjeb...

Edit: I have started up a Mission Report Here if you want to keep up with the latest, leave room for more entries

Edited May 12, 2014 by Cmdr. Arn1e

[SSSPutnik]

Here are some more pics.

Mods used in image:

LLL

KW Rocketry

RemoteTech

Infernal Robotics

B9

I will do some higher res ones as well.

The link is to my personal Owncloud server - no client required, no popups or ads.

https://moc-per.micromine.com/owncloud/public.php?service=gallery&t=4783a8654f19277461839fd9277b1a5d

Egads! Jool insertion burn going for over 4 hours so far. (Real time). Mass is now under 1000t. Three pairs of drop tanks gone now.

Edited May 13, 2014 by SSSPutnik

[Speeding Mullet]

Here are some more pics.

Man that is a leviathan. Make sure to get some close ups of the landers and rovers next time you are out. Thanks for the feedback on the thread also!

[Kasuha]

I'm considering re-running the challenge again - this time on level 1, but landing on all moons with my spaceplane, leaving fuel reserve in orbit. The only hard nut to crack is Tylo, I recently managed to launch from it after adding a few engines but to land I'm going to need some droppable boosters or skycrane.

[shynung]

I'm planning to launch 2 main ships to the Joolian system, both having separate crew, separate landers, and will do the landings separately from their respective counterparts (each Joolian moon will be landed twice, on different locations). No significant mission overlaps, other than some rendezvous, and possibly fuel transfers and crew swaps.

Is this still acceptable under the original rules, or am I going to the freestyle category?(If I am, I don't mind.)

[Speeding Mullet]

or am I going to the freestyle category?(If I am, I don't mind.)

Everything has to go from Kerbal orbit to Jool as one big ship, so I think it's freestyle. The rules are the same for the regular and Kethane versions. If you launched as one big ship then split them down on the way then that would fit within the rules. As you say it doesn't bother you so best of luck with the mission!

[SSSPutnik]

I'm considering re-running the challenge again - this time on level 1, but landing on all moons with my spaceplane, leaving fuel reserve in orbit. The only hard nut to crack is Tylo, I recently managed to launch from it after adding a few engines but to land I'm going to need some droppable boosters or skycrane.

Vertical landing or? Sounds tricky but sure you can pull it off.

Unsure about splitting the ships along the way, I count it as one ship from Kerbin orbit to Jool SoI.

[shynung]

Everything has to go from Kerbal orbit to Jool as one big ship, so I think it's freestyle. The rules are the same for the regular and Kethane versions. If you launched as one big ship then split them down on the way then that would fit within the rules. As you say it doesn't bother you so best of luck with the mission!

Actually, the second ship is carrying a Kethane driller, which ship #1 lack. Ship #2 is more of an insurance policy than a duplicate mission. Should ship #1 ran out of fuel, the crew could just migrate to ship #2, and carry on.

Come to think of it, I may be able to dock the two ships together to make one bigger ship. I'd have to design some sort of interface, but I don't think it's much of a problem.

EDIT: No, I don't think I'm going to do that. The Kethane driller is probably going to throw the center of mass of the combined ship off center, and that's going to ruin the transfer burn.

I'm probably going to run both ships as a separate mission. Ship #1 is going to be a scout of some sort, landing on all Joolian moons, then return. Ship #2 will carry Kethane drillers, repeating ship #1's mission on different landing spots, in addition to exploring Kethane deposits around Vall, Bop, and/or Pol.

Ship #2 is to be launched 1 year after ship #1 launched. By the time ship #2 arrives at the Joolian system, ship #1 has probably done most of the landing missions, and preparing for the Trans-Kerbin burn. Other than a possible formality rendezvous, contact between both ships is going to be minimized.

Edited May 13, 2014 by shynung

[Kasuha]

Vertical landing or?

Landing would probably have to be vertical, or at least with sufficient TWR to support vertical landing even with some remaining horizontal speed. Horizontal liftoff was crazy enough.

On all other moons horizontal landing/liftoff should not be major problem. Although I still need to verify it for Vall.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Kasuha

[SSSPutnik]

Neat! Nice little space plane, I saw your scenario and considering trying it after current Jool 5 mission, or if I need a break.

[Kamuchi]

From what I understand it is a single ship at launch, from there you could undock 100 smaller crafts and that would be fine.

Getting massive stuff up as a signle ship is the biggest challange without it exploding midair to failing physics

Ziv I`ve got a weird question as I`m already thinking about my second mission when this one returns.

There is a mod call "Extraplanetary Launchpads" ( http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59545-0-23-5-Extraplanetary-Launchpads-v4-1-2 )

Would launching an entire moon base operation (single ship with all the bits) classify when drilling and building the actual ship on say Minmus or build a base on one of Jool`s moons and go from there?

Haven`t tried this mod and have my doubts it works on the scale I want to build, but with Kathene and this it could add an additional challange part with abit of RP to keep the crew happy with all the extra work:

After years of training new rocket scientists, we ran out of natural resources!

The Kerbal space administration imposed a construction limit on all vehicle plans heavier then 100 tons (just throwing a figure) nd offworld building might now be a requirement to keep the crew happy!

Getting tempted to scratch my current mission and try it, if it wasn`t for the time put into it already

[Ziv]

I'm planning to launch 2 main ships to the Joolian system, both having separate crew, separate landers, and will do the landings separately from their respective counterparts (each Joolian moon will be landed twice, on different locations). No significant mission overlaps, other than some rendezvous, and possibly fuel transfers and crew swaps.

Is this still acceptable under the original rules, or am I going to the freestyle category?(If I am, I don't mind.)

Hi, yeah, as they said the main ship has to go from Kerbin to Jool as one big ship. Without this rule all the missions could be and endless one, would make it harder to compare missions and also would reduce the need for engineering and piloting excellence. This is true for the normal and the kethane version too.

But I understand that parallel missions can be fun too so feel free to do that and I'll be happy to post it in the Freestyle category!

[Ziv]

Ziv I`ve got a weird question as I`m already thinking about my second mission when this one returns.

There is a mod call "Extraplanetary Launchpads" ( http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59545-0-23-5-Extraplanetary-Launchpads-v4-1-2 )

Would launching an entire moon base operation (single ship with all the bits) classify when drilling and building the actual ship on say Minmus or build a base on one of Jool`s moons and go from there?

Haven`t tried this mod and have my doubts it works on the scale I want to build, but with Kathene and this it could add an additional challange part with abit of RP to keep the crew happy with all the extra work:

After years of training new rocket scientists, we ran out of natural resources!

The Kerbal space administration imposed a construction limit on all vehicle plans heavier then 100 tons (just throwing a figure) nd offworld building might now be a requirement to keep the crew happy!

Getting tempted to scratch my current mission and try it, if it wasn`t for the time put into it already

Hi Kamuchi, I like the idea but it makes the mission too other style than the basic Kethane Challenges and makes points/comparing too hard so it would go to the Freestyle. But that's also in the Hall of Fame and I'm sure a lot of player would be interested in that kind of mission!

[Kamuchi]

Hi Kamuchi, I like the idea but it makes the mission too other style than the basic Kethane Challenges and makes points/comparing too hard so it would go to the Freestyle. But that's also in the Hall of Fame and I'm sure a lot of player would be interested in that kind of mission!

You are right about adding another level of complexity to turn points into a headache

Looked through quite some challenges but didn`t see it used/part of, hence the idea.

[SSSPutnik]

I have started a mission log if people are interested here.

[Rakaydos]

My Jool 5 attempt failed today, shoaled on the rocks of "we didnt test the lander on laythe!"

Also been having problems getting kerbals to climb onto a ledge from a ladder.

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I probably could have brute forced the rest of it by refueling instead of landing on laythe, but when the third stack of my tanker vanished, I jjust didnt have the fuel to visit all the moons and make it back.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Rakaydos

[Kasuha]

On all other moons horizontal landing/liftoff should not be major problem. Although I still need to verify it for Vall.

Looks good, I made a test starting in Vall orbit and was able to land on Vall, Laythe, Pol, and Bop, and was almost able to get a slingshot back to Kerbin before the plane ran out of fuel.

I also tested some Tylo landing options but it did not work very well yet.

Tentative mission plan:

1/ Tylo - leave fuel in orbit, land with boosters, return to orbit, refuel, drop empty tanks on Tylo

2/ Laythe - leave fuel in orbit, land, return, refuel, drop tanks on Laythe

3/ Vall, Bop, and Pol (not necessarily in this order), and return to Kerbin on remaining fuel

Edited May 14, 2014 by Kasuha