(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

[Ziv]

Yeah, I just meant that you two made some amazing Grand Tour missions so I'm sure you will not try anything cheaty. I would like to allow the B9 HX huge rockets and parts if they would be used to make something huge and complex which is at least that hard as the normal challenge. But allowing a huge rocket would mean to many beginners that "my landers are too heavy but it's not a problem because I can use huge rockets to send them out" and I want to avoid this thinking. I'm bored of the "put more rockets there"-style missions.

And I didn't say I will put your mission into the normal list... if you use some too extreme mods (like the HX parts from B9) then I would put it in the "Mixed Solution" but with some distinction text, if the mission deserves it.

[Ziv]

Hi i'd like to submit my entry:

http://youtu.be/fo5OWySdrAM

309 parts at launch, and 1055 tons.

Different pilot for each of Jool's moons, and science was collected from the Jool system only.

(At Duna I didn't do "EVA report", as it may seem! I just cancelled it ("reset experiment"))

As a bonus I landed on Duna, Ike, Mun & Minmus, and also left no space junk :]

A mod has been used for adjusting the brightness of objects(ships & planets)

Plans:

Hyper edit has been used for testing the ships.

I came up with this lander, this was my key for entering this challenge.

http://imgur.com/a/tPLkG

I was trying to make it more stable, but nothing good came out so eventually I made it 2 times bigger, and added science equipment while i'm at it.

Then tested it with a transfer drive:

http://i.imgur.com/MPLQjIU.jpg

And it worked fine.

---

Craft file is available in my repository V V V

Overfloater: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Jebediah's Level!

Nice and well planned mission with a simple and very efficient ship/lander design. Maybe lander could be smaller with wider legs for more convenient landings but I saw you are okay with the slow and steady landings (and the ASAS helps you out if needed). And nice easter egg visiting landings without any mod, it seems like you've already been there some times.

I usually don't like video submissions because they are slow but your video was dynamic, that was good! Also congratulation for the additional landings! Cool, thanks for participating!

[Ziv]

Nice lander:D

Okay, thanks everyone for your comments to my earlier plans. I'll try to make more efficient transfers but i'm not sure if i'm always willing to wait for the optimal window so i still give the main ship over 8k dv. (Do'h just noticed, should have aimed for over 9k, that would have been more epic)

This is the current state. Ready for departure. It needed 4 Launches. Has a crew container and a lab.

http://imgur.com/a/h5oqb

Doing the mission will take some time. I'll report back when it's done.

Not bad! I would advise to avoid engines which are not parallel because they waste more fuel for the same dV. Try to put them parallel.

[Himynameisjake]

And I didn't say I will put your mission into the normal list... if you use some too extreme mods (like the HX parts from B9) then I would put it in the "Mixed Solution" but with some distinction text, if the mission deserves it.

I'll be "Mixed Solutions" because I'm launching all those lab rovers separate, so my ships don't leave Kerbin together, but spaced a few hours apart each to aerobrake one at a time.

[Stratzenblitz75]

And I didn't say I will put your mission into the normal list... if you use some too extreme mods (like the HX parts from B9) then I would put it in the "Mixed Solution" but with some distinction text, if the mission deserves it.

Oh right, there's a mixed solutions category... I completely forgot about that. My bad...

Oh well, then that's where my mission is definitely going to go. I have so many mods at this point, my KSP barely resembles stock. Aggressive active texture management FTW!

[Thunderous Echo]

Is editing the craft file to exactly center a part allowed?

Also, is your definition of part clipping "Don't use the debug menu" or "Don't put things inside of other things"?

If yes and the first one, is placing a part inside of another part "legitamately" and then editing the craft file to center it allowed?

Friggin' goo containers...

Edited September 22, 2014 by Thunderous Echo

[Ziv]

Is editing the craft file to exactly center a part allowed?

Also, is your definition of part clipping "Don't use the debug menu" or "Don't put things inside of other things"?

If yes and the first one, is placing a part inside of another part "legitamately" and then editing the craft file to center it allowed?

Friggin' goo containers...

You are not allowed to hide a part of a part inside an other part (hehe). In other words, the volume of the whole ship have to be the same as the volume of the parts all together. If you show me in a private message what you mean by editing a craft file to center a part then I can decide about that. Using the debug menu is cheating so prohibited. And putting anything inside an other part is part clipping, so prohibited too.

Everybody have to suffer the same problems!

[Thunderous Echo]

Okay. So, I think I should tell you what I'm going to do.

Jebdiah's mode.

Wait! I'm not done.

plus Kerbol grand Tour.

Hold on, hold on...

plus approximately 19 Reddit Weekly Challenges.

Tada!

(Now is when you clap)

[Overfloater]

Not at all, I just have to find half an hour free time to check your mission (and the other one too ).

Oh! hehe... sorry for jumping to conclusions like that. x-p

Overfloater: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Jebediah's Level!

Nice and well planned mission with a simple and very efficient ship/lander design. Maybe lander could be smaller with wider legs for more convenient landings but I saw you are okay with the slow and steady landings (and the ASAS helps you out if needed). And nice easter egg visiting landings without any mod, it seems like you've already been there some times.

I usually don't like video submissions because they are slow but your video was dynamic, that was good! Also congratulation for the additional landings! Cool, thanks for participating!

Thank you very much!!! :-] i'm glad you didn't think my entry wasn't a complete piece of poo =)

I should admit, that's the 1st time i visited easter eggs(as well as landing on more than 2 bodies xD). I carefully checked kerbalmaps.com to find them, just for the video. Vall's landscapes were easily recognizable, but Bop was hard. x-)

P.S.

Oh damnit WHY didn't I check for the face on Duna and some Mun easter eggs... x-D

Nice lander:D

Thanks. your project seems pretty kickass too 8]

wait... you meant the 1-nuke test lander, right? it's as awesome as landers get! lol

Edited September 23, 2014 by Overfloater

[kookoo_gr]

Hey Ziv, I have a few questions

1. What is your opinion for this mod? http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/93685-0-24-2-%28Atmospheric%29-Trajectories-v0-2-1-%282014-09-19%29

2. For my grand tour mission i plan to use 5 kerbals with the following mission profile. eg. i send a Kerbal at Moho and an unmanned vehicle to Eve. I land the Kerbal to Moho and get him back to Eve, then land on Eve/Gilly and return him to Kerbin. Is this allowed? This method will not be used for the Jool system, all Kerbals and landers will go in one ship at Jool.

3. About the part clipping, i found this neat trick at the VAB without the use of any mods/debug menu, it's stock.

i. I place four cubic struts underneath a tank with four times symmetry

ii. i turn the struts upside down using the wasd keys and i get four extra attachment points at a tank

iii. now i can attach four engines or any other equipment without the cubic struts being shown, and the engines work too without using fuel ducts

iv. For smaller tanks i can have this effect

Note that the tanks/engines/equipment at picture iv. cannot be clipped completely inside the starting tank, i can move them up/down but only at the side of the starting tank

Is this allowed for construction or do i have to stay at placement shown at picture of step i. for attaching four engines at a tank

[Ziv]

Hey Ziv, I have a few questions

1. What is your opinion for this mod? http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/93685-0-24-2-%28Atmospheric%29-Trajectories-v0-2-1-%282014-09-19%29

2. For my grand tour mission i plan to use 5 kerbals with the following mission profile. eg. i send a Kerbal at Moho and an unmanned vehicle to Eve. I land the Kerbal to Moho and get him back to Eve, then land on Eve/Gilly and return him to Kerbin. Is this allowed? This method will not be used for the Jool system, all Kerbals and landers will go in one ship at Jool.

3. About the part clipping, i found this neat trick at the VAB without the use of any mods/debug menu, it's stock.

i. I place four cubic struts underneath a tank with four times symmetry

http://i.imgur.com/eItchjd.png

ii. i turn the struts upside down using the wasd keys and i get four extra attachment points at a tank

http://i.imgur.com/44VsQUR.png

iii. now i can attach four engines or any other equipment without the cubic struts being shown, and the engines work too without using fuel ducts

http://i.imgur.com/W8uM2JQ.png

iv. For smaller tanks i can have this effect

http://i.imgur.com/X7uj4Ho.png

Note that the tanks/engines/equipment at picture iv. cannot be clipped completely inside the starting tank, i can move them up/down but only at the side of the starting tank

Is this allowed for construction or do i have to stay at placement shown at picture of step i. for attaching four engines at a tank

1. this mod is a good idea. This makes the precise atmospheric landings easier which helps only at Laythe somewhat in JOOL-5 but I like it so it is allowed.

2. there's no rule of the Grand Tour outside of JOOL SOI so yes, you can do that or anything like that. The only rule is that your JOOL-5 ship has to go from Kerbin to Jool as one ship, additional ships cannot be sent, and the Kerbals from Jool have to be able to come back to Kerbin with their (remaining) Jool-5 ship safely. But if they continue their journey to other worlds then it's a plus.

3. putting something on with a "hided strut" is allowed as long as that something on the strut is not clipping. So i-ii-iii is allowed but please try to avoid iv. If you lower your struts at iv until the xenon tanks doesn't clip then it's okay.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Ziv

[Hattivat]

Since I was setting up a fresh install of KSP anyway, I decided to try playing with stock scale, parts and physics again (I'm normally a hardcore realism RSS player), and finally prepare a submission for this venerable challenge. I've gotta say coming back to stock "aerodynamics" and cold reentry after many months of realism was more fun than I expected, being able to appreciate exactly how impossible the things you do are adds a lot of comedy value to the whole thing, I can see why some real-life engineers would play this game stock to wind down after work.

My spacecraft turned out to be grossly overengineered, so I could've probably done a great tour if I wanted to, but it would've been too monotonous so I decided to call it a day after visiting Eeloo. I've used a ton of visual-enhancement and utility mods, but no part-adding or physics-changing (I mean, like FAR or DRE) mods, and no Mechjeb, so I guess this is for all intents and purposes a fully-stock submission. Without further ado, here it is:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

edit:

- Which game versions did you use?

0.24.2

- What mods did you use, if any?

truly relevant: none;

not really relevant: KER, KAC, Transfer Window Planner, Enhanced Navball, Raster Prop Monitor, Chatterer, EVE, Texture Replacer, Docking Alignment Indicator

- How many launches was needed to start your mission from Kerbal?

Two. Could have been one if I tried, but didn't see the point.

- How many refueling did you do during the mission, how much and where?

None whatsoever.

- Did you bring a Living Quarter (Hitch-hiker's Storage) for the guys during the long journey?

Nope, but I did bring a superfluous lab to serve as a habitat.

- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc?

Nope.

- Share the delta-V informations too, if you tracked it!

Didn't really track, but a back-of-an-envelope estimate is 25 000 m/s total (including landings and docking, not including the Eeloo trip)

Edited September 23, 2014 by Hattivat
forgot to take the survey

[Ziv]

Since I was setting up a fresh install of KSP anyway, I decided to try playing with stock scale, parts and physics again (I'm normally a hardcore realism RSS player), and finally prepare a submission for this venerable challenge. I've gotta say coming back to stock "aerodynamics" and cold reentry after many months of realism was more fun than I expected, being able to appreciate exactly how impossible the things you do are adds a lot of comedy value to the whole thing, I can see why some real-life engineers would play this game stock to wind down after work.

My spacecraft turned out to be grossly overengineered, so I could've probably done a great tour if I wanted to, but it would've been too monotonous so I decided to call it a day after visiting Eeloo. I've used a ton of visual-enhancement and utility mods, but no part-adding or physics-changing (I mean, like FAR or DRE) mods, and no Mechjeb, so I guess this is for all intents and purposes a fully-stock submission. Without further ado, here it is:

http://imgur.com/a/JhKCR

edit:

- Which game versions did you use?

0.24.2

- What mods did you use, if any?

truly relevant: none;

not really relevant: KER, KAC, Transfer Window Planner, Enhanced Navball, Raster Prop Monitor, Chatterer, EVE, Texture Replacer, Docking Alignment Indicator

- How many launches was needed to start your mission from Kerbal?

Two. Could have been one if I tried, but didn't see the point.

- How many refueling did you do during the mission, how much and where?

None whatsoever.

- Did you bring a Living Quarter (Hitch-hiker's Storage) for the guys during the long journey?

Nope, but I did bring a superfluous lab to serve as a habitat.

- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc?

Nope.

- Share the delta-V informations too, if you tracked it!

Didn't really track, but a back-of-an-envelope estimate is 25 000 m/s total (including landings and docking, not including the Eeloo trip)

Hattivat: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Level 3!

Nice one, I guess it was fun after the RSS. I see you didn't bring science instruments but a Space Lab, that's interesting, why?

Otherwise nice and effective design. And this picture is funny.

Good job with the Eeloo landing too. Thank you for participating!

[Thunderous Echo]

Ha! If I'm successful, I just blew the Level 1 Sub-Challenge out of the water.

What? Oh. It's lowest mass on launchpad.

Hm... Well, I don't see myself winning that one with my 10295.93 tons of sheer power.

I tend to overbuild things, as you may have guessed. Not taking any chances.

I actually had to send up my equipment in two trips because my computer couldn't handle 1102 parts at once.

In fact, I specifically made sure that there orbits were more than 2.5 km apart.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Thunderous Echo

[Ziv]

OMG. Show us pictures!

Remember that your ship cannot be wider than the launch pad! (just kidding, hehe)

[Thunderous Echo]

Okay, this is one of the two ships, the Giza:

(Outdated, newest version is slightly different)

Edited September 27, 2014 by Thunderous Echo

[Thunderous Echo]

Clocks in at 5297.35 tons and 833 parts on launchpad

[Thunderous Echo]

In more recent news, Jebediah Kerman has placed Silver in Poor Planning and Gold in Face Tabogganing at the Moho Kerlympic Games.

[Gravaar]

Clocks in at 5297.35 tons and 833 parts on launchpad

*GRIN*

Javascript is disabled. View full album

25000 tons on Launchpad

11 kerbals

ALMOST an SSTO might tweak it further before doing a full mission

Edited September 27, 2014 by Gravaar

[Overfloater]

Hello!

I've been tempted by looking at all your big(and little) fancy grand tours, to actually attempt my own.

In case I do decide to go for the "Jeb" difficulty level again, the "Jool-5" part of the mission will be exactly the same as my previous. Continuing to all other bodies from there.

So I have a question for Ziv, concerning clipped parts.

I'd like you to inspect this Eve lander.

The probe core may look as it's clipped, but it's in fact a fuel tank "radially" attached to the bottom of the probe.

Here's my main concern, the decoupler from which the ascent vehicle is suspended:

Decoupler is attached to the probe. On the probe there's a chair,

...which comfortably sits(unmanned, of course!) inside the hollow decouplers :]

Also this design uses inverted cubic struts for its engines, but I seen already that you accept that so long as the engines are not clipped into the tank or any funny stuff like that.

This is the best solution I could come up with so far, other variations would look unbelievably ugly :-p

Like in all my previous KSP missions, NO cheat-codes are involved in designing crafts/playing!

And now I just need to know if you will accept this design.

===============

Okay, this is one of the two ships, the Giza:

(Outdated, newest version is slightly different)

http://i.imgur.com/WBFDcBR.png

Nice, looking forward to see the mission ;]

...

Remember that your ship cannot be wider than the launch pad! ...

I beg to differ:

Not mine!!! it's part of Maccollo's manned Venus mission in RSS.

Edit: oh yeah, and the person above. O_O

Edited September 27, 2014 by Overfloater

[Hattivat]

Thank you for your praise and for maintaining this great challenge

I see you didn't bring science instruments but a Space Lab, that's interesting, why?

No particular reason, I simply wanted something to visually serve as the "living quarters", and I liked the way the Space Lab looked with the rest of the ship more than what hitchhiker looked like.

[Ziv]

Overfloater: fuel tanks, engines and pods cannot clip each other, that's the most important thing. So if you have a small fuel tank under the probe core (on which sits the chair) then it's not okay, otherwise the chair hiding inside the decoupler is all right.

Hattivat: I see. Yes, the Lab looks better for a living quarter than a Hitch-hiker Storage!

[sdj64]

What's your stance on SXT and Tantares?

I'm going to start a multi-mission journey with these and some other mods that are already on the OK list, and Jool-5 will be a part. I don't mind if you don't let them be used, and my ship has more clipping than you would like so it will probably go in mixed solutions if I do post it here anyway. Specifically, some parts that are of note: 2 large atomic engines in SXT: one has mass 9, ISP 640, thrust 480, other has mass 9, ISP 840, thrust 180. Tantares crew pod: 2 crew, mass 0.94. LK landing engine in Tantares: mass 0.35, ISP 400, thrust 65.

[Lack]

What's your stance on SXT and Tantares?

I'm going to start a multi-mission journey with these and some other mods that are already on the OK list, and Jool-5 will be a part. I don't mind if you don't let them be used, and my ship has more clipping than you would like so it will probably go in mixed solutions if I do post it here anyway. Specifically, some parts that are of note: 2 large atomic engines in SXT: one has mass 9, ISP 640, thrust 480, other has mass 9, ISP 840, thrust 180. Tantares crew pod: 2 crew, mass 0.94. LK landing engine in Tantares: mass 0.35, ISP 400, thrust 65.

I've got some graphs somewhere that should help, by and large I use the spreadsheets stupid_Chris drew up for balancing my engines.

Tantares's LK lander has a twr of ~19, so you can read that's position of the graph. It's on the upper end, but not so very far from the rest considering the NASAmission parts.

Here they are:

The 840isp nuke could be dropped to 800isp to bring it to the same position as the LV-N, I just wanted to give a bonus for the fact that it's really, really big and unwieldy.

[Ziv]

Hey, I'll check these mods soon!