(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

[Overfloater]

Alrighty then...

I have prepared a lander for Laythe:

been a while since I refrained from clipping parts and stuff xD

(It reaches orbit(twice!(!)(needs less boosters)))

---

And I came to conclude that you guys aren't joking about Tylo being (a bit) hard.

But the lander works fine if I start burning like mad at 22~25 km of altitude.

That's not the final version! This is just to have an idea for what a suitable lander is.

the science equipment will be modular, each lander will pick up the single science set for it's own mission. (except for the plane maybe)

---

I also figured out how to properly collect science points and use the lab :-I

This ship has squeezed everything out of Duna & Ike:

Duna Mission

(that was FUN...)

So I'm totally bringing one of those with me.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Overfloater

[Ziv]

Quick question to the judges: could somebody tell me if the albums I am posting are enough proof of this undertaking? This is the first time I have tried to keep a serious record of a journey, plus my first attempt to answer a challenge, and although I am 90% done and quite proud of myself (despite some "key learnings"...) I am worried that there are pix that I am missing. I find it somewhat tedious to edit these albums, and if it isn't enough I may stop pausing to take pix and just finish for my own fun... Thanks!

It looks okay so far. Just screenshot all the key moments and check all the rules, and you'll be fine. You didn't use parachutes on Laythe?

[Ziv]

Alrighty then...

I have prepared a lander for Laythe:

http://i.imgur.com/l42Dr93.jpg

been a while since I refrained from clipping parts and stuff xD

(It reaches orbit(twice!(!)(needs less boosters)))

---

And I came to conclude that you guys aren't joking about Tylo being (a bit) hard.

But the lander works fine if I start burning like mad at 22~25 km of altitude.

http://i.imgur.com/m3NLM1J.jpg

That's not the final version! This is just to have an idea for what a suitable lander is.

the science equipment will be modular, each lander will pick up the single science set for it's own mission. (except for the plane maybe)

---

I also figured out how to properly collect science points and use the lab :-I

This ship has squeezed everything out of Duna & Ike:

Duna Mission

(that was FUN...)

So I'm totally bringing one of those with me.

Looks good! Please note that from Jool orbit you will need about ~900 m/s to get to low Laythe orbit, and when came back from the surface you will need ~900 m/s again to get out of Laythe. It is also true for Tylo, it's about ~1000 m/s there, so if you launch your lander from the mothership still in Jool orbit then you will need about 1000+3200+2800+1000 = 8000 m/s deltaV for the whole trip...

[Ziv]

I finally finished my mission. Originally launched in 3 parts in 0.23, I set it up as a single launch in 0.23.5 and here are the results.

http://imgur.com/a/WGC8P

godefroi: Congratulation, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Level 1! Nice one, good work!

[godefroi]

godefroi: Congratulation, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Level 1! Nice one, good work!

Thank you! I'm already preparing my next trip out there, and this time, we're doing SCIENCE!

[James_Eh]

It looks okay so far. Just screenshot all the key moments and check all the rules, and you'll be fine. You didn't use parachutes on Laythe?

Good to hear, thanks. Naw, didn't bother with parachutes. Just extra parts I didn't need plus more testing to ensure they didn't break things when deployed. Lander was way over-powered... I find parachutes of low value assuming you have an engine and fuel along for the ride...

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

I have discovered flaws in my space coach design, and so am going to have to bring her home... I do, however, have an even better design that I came up with... will update once I have it up in LKO!

[Rakaydos]

Looking toward attempting this challange as a dry run for a "Grand Tour" that lands everywhere except Eve, Jool and Kerbol. If I can make a single stage Tylo lander, I should be able to land just about anywhere and catch up with the refueling tanker on a minimum Delta V slingshot grand tour.

So far I've got orbit, Munar flyby to minmus transfer, sit in orbit a few laps, reverse slingshot Minmus to Low Kerbin x Minmus orbit on the night side.

From there I want a duna shingshot to Dres slingshot to jool capture, but I havnt gotten that far yet.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Rakaydos

[Alchemist]

Finally edited the last moon episode... it seems to be cursed by you know who... It's not as dead as you'd like...

Let's see what's next: couple episodes of ARM (this was recorded next day after 0.23.5 release - I totally fell behind with processing the videos), then Eeloo and Dres and only then return to Kerbin...

[Himynameisjake]

If I can make a single stage Tylo lander

^lol this guy

In all seriousness, good luck, I tried for a week before giving up. But don't get lazy and use an Eve lander, it will not end well lol.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Himynameisjake

[Rakaydos]

^lol this guy

In all seriousness, good luck, I tried for a week before giving up. But don't get lazy and use an Eve lander, it will not end well lol.

My current plan is to carry a ring of dump tanks that I ONLY use for Tylo ascent- though this makes Tylo an early landing priority, and complicates my early Mun tanker flyby/lander landing+re-intercept (might move that one to the journy home, or when heading to eve after Jool, Dres and Duna.

Still need to get the current design to Jool (they're in a Minmus-LKO transfer orbit waiting for the sun to be in the right place, though the orbit will be clear for plenty of time)

[James_Eh]

I spent time (a lot of time) on the way to and from work thinking about a single stage Tylo lander and decided that I had better ways to use my thinking time.

I wonder, with 23.5, whether if you used one of those hyper-efficient monsters it could become possible? I haven't tried yet. My Jool-5 design is still based on 22.0 specs. (And darn near finished!)

BTW thanks a lot Jake - here I am completing the Jool-5 challenge and you come through with an entire Grand Tour mission. I grudgingly admit - wow!

[SSSPutnik]

A single stage Tylo lander can be done with stock parts. Made a few.

[ChaserGrey]

Grr. I had my Kethane expedition all planned out, then my save got corrupted. Taking with it my nearly full tech tree and a ship on the way to Duna for the first time. Me? Bitter? Nah.

Currently weighing re-climbing the tech tree vs. just doing this in Sandbox. The latter is faster but science is really a lot of the fun here...

[Rakaydos]

My last lander design has the theoretical delta V for a single stage tylo landing and launch, but by the time it burns off orbital velocity, it's got a TWR of at least 3, and I start pogoing around trying to kill the last of my horizontal velocity. Jeb is sitting there with a functional lander with two material sciences, with only 600 delta V remaining.

[Speeding Mullet]

Just checking in, I had two weeks out of the game as I was visiting my family back in the UK. The brave crew needed the two weeks out however, just to think of a solution to the seriously bad situation they had got themselves into following a facepalm of gas giant proportions.

They think a solution has been reached now and are busy (hopefully) rectifying the issue, and flying very much by the seat of their (now brown) pants. Mission report update will be huge, and then I'm on the home stretch to finishing the Kethane mission (expedition style).

Check in again soon good to see others making progress!

[SSSPutnik]

Reduce throttle or use smooth throttle function in MJ if you use that to avoid pogoing.

[James_Eh]

A single stage Tylo lander can be done with stock parts. Made a few.

Hmmm. I was wondering what my next challenge would be. With command pod, or just seats?

Edited May 3, 2014 by James_Eh

[Himynameisjake]

BTW thanks a lot Jake - here I am completing the Jool-5 challenge and you come through with an entire Grand Tour mission. I grudgingly admit - wow!

The Jool 5 is a great achievement in and of itself. Don't let what others do cheapen your accomplishments! That being said, thanks!

[James_Eh]

I would like to submit the following Mission Log as my entry to this challenge.

I believe that this is a Level 2 submission. The mission plan was as follows:

- 6 spacers in total: Jeb, Bill, and Bob were the experienced ones, and Kenrie, Rodtop, and Lumy were the trainees

- each landing had to include at least one experienced spacer

- each landing was two Kerbals

- the trainees would be allowed to take control for landings on each of the smaller 3 moons, with a trainer along for supervision

- order of visits went Laythe, Tylo, Vall, Pol, Bop

- F9 was only permitted for incidents which completely killed the mission. Turned out that, with the exception of Tylo, only one was required, and that was during assembly.

- MJ was the only mod used. I used to have the NF Docking tool but haven't gotten it working in 23.5 yet.

- the mission had 10 comfy seats in total (6 in the lander cans, 4 in the HH can) which we felt was enough leg room

The original mission was designed in 22. I skipped right over 23 because I knew 23.5 was coming, plus I still had stuff to do in 22. However, ultimately I uploaded 23.5 at about the same time as my first attempt proved to be fatally underfuelled in 22, so I went ahead and relaunched in 23.5 The mission itself used no new 23.5 parts however.

DAISY-B was assembled in 4 pieces - the main drive went up first (this is documented). Then I sent up the twin Tylo/Laythe landers in two smaller launches to dock. Then the BVP lander was sent up with an even smaller launch.

My confession: prior to the BVP lander launch, I had to refuel the 20 nearly empty OT's. We drove to the space station (which I haven't used in a LONG time) and sucked up all fuel that we could, but still had a long way to go. Tried a couple of refuel missions with pre-23.5 designs, and they worked fine, but frankly they were pretty wimpy and would have required 40 or 50 missions to complete. So we used the new 23.5 parts and designed a whole new fuel supply ship which got >10,000 units of fuel to orbit, and completed refuelling in many fewer missions. SO, it's a 22 ship, but with help from 23.5

I wanted to avoid strapping the spacers to chairs, so every landing involved a 2-man lander can. This, plus the weight of the Tylo/Laythe landers, added a whale of a lot of oomph required for the whole mission. I started with a 10-OT design using the same landers, but realized after the Laythe landing that we were short on dV. Then I returned to the VAB and discovered that I could detach the 2x5 OT drive section, switch to 4X sym, and reattach - all fully strutted! - with a 4X5 OT drive section. Without further ado, off we went.

I did not worry about debris. I feel it can be collected and used by future generations of spacers.

I learned a lot from this challenge.

- I could have put HH cans onto each lander instead of the 2-man lander cans for the same weight and landed 4 Kerbals at each moon, but it seemed cheaty to me to not include an obvious "command spot"

- I got far far better at efficient maneuvers as the mission progressed

- MJ can not drive 20 OT ships, no matter how well balanced you think they are

- MJ can not land my BVP lander on small moons - I watched in fascination as it spun around and around the lander's center of mass about 4 KM above Pol until I grabbed control

- the strange glitch whereby a Kerbal disappears from the main view happened a number of times - could always be fixed by exiting and coming back

- really, REALLY make sure the fuel lines run in the right direction on your Tylo land/ascent vehicle

Thanks for the inspiration!

Edited May 4, 2014 by James_Eh

[Ziv]

Grr. I had my Kethane expedition all planned out, then my save got corrupted. Taking with it my nearly full tech tree and a ship on the way to Duna for the first time. Me? Bitter? Nah.

Currently weighing re-climbing the tech tree vs. just doing this in Sandbox. The latter is faster but science is really a lot of the fun here...

I suggest you to edit the science points in your save file. It's the "sci = 1234" part. Collecting the science points for the parts outside of Jool is not part of the JOOL-5 Challenge so I don't care how you collected them before.

[SSSPutnik]

A few pics of my Kethane version coming together.

Fuel launch.

Fuel arriving. (Giant 3.75m tank in centre)

Lander with rover/base heading for the Osperus III. (I used small boosters for an extra kick).

One lander attached. Balancing might be tricky, I think I have CoM OK.

Still requires other rover/base and a variety of small base landers.

We have two Jool penetrators and 4 satellites loaded as well. (Hoping to set up a Remote Tech wireless link back to Kerbin and covering Jool system).

I'm using Infernal Robotics a bit. Spotlight on rover can be tilted and panned. The 'radiation' shields on the main ship can be angled depending on what the ship is doing. (They can be angled more when the solar panels are retracted).

The main antenna can be retracted into the antenna bay, it can also be extended on a boom and angled to point in the desired direction.

I'm going to lose a LOT of points on start mass, but I don't mind.

Edited May 4, 2014 by SSSPutnik

[SSSPutnik]

Hmmm. I was wondering what my next challenge would be. With command pod, or just seats?

I've only ever done it with a one man command pod. All others were staged.

I don't believe in command seats except for rovers. (Who would risk landing in one!?)

[James_Eh]

I've only ever done it with a one man command pod. All others were staged.

I don't believe in command seats except for rovers. (Who would risk landing in one!?)

Agreed. Except I usually put the seats on to the rovers in an incorrect orientation and the Kerbals have to ride around on the rover staring straight up at the sky. I will have to sit down to make a single-stage Tylo land/ascent vehicle. Although I have had it with the Jool system for a while, maybe I will finally upload HypedEdit to be able to do testing.

That ship looks amazing! I have never used the Kethane mod either. Do all of the boxy structures come from it?

PS - I'm taking a break from serious playing and am trying to figure out how to get a wheeled vehicle onto this:

[ChaserGrey]

I suggest you to edit the science points in your save file. It's the "sci = 1234" part. Collecting the science points for the parts outside of Jool is not part of the JOOL-5 Challenge so I don't care how you collected them before.

I'll have to remember that. As it happens, I found a not-too-far out of date save and was able to begin construction.

Just a quick snap before I have to go to work:

This is the Stork, just launched to Kerbin orbit. She's a universal single-stage lander with a nuclear main and four aerospikes for extra thrust at Tylo and Laythe. About 3900 m/s delta-v, plus a drilling apparatus and refinery so she can refuel on the surface. All up mass is about 89 tons.

The plan is for the entire ship to have enough fuel to get to Jool, aerobrake, and maneuver to Pol. Lander deploys and mines kethane to refuel the main ship, then off we go into the wonderful Jool system. I'm planning a dry run, as it were, at Minmus once the whole ship's assembled.

Next step is the Cruise Module, with lots of extra tankage, a lab, and living quarters for the crew. (Yes, I am going to Kerbal Hell for my all-up mass)

Edited May 4, 2014 by ChaserGrey
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