(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

[Kadrian]

Starting this challenge.

this probably has been answered before, but will there be penalties if you do the Jebediah challenge and have been to the moons before? Science points decrease for double takes, so a fresh careerer has the advantage there...

Kind regards

[SSSPutnik]

Its allowed but yeah probably best on a fresh save.

[loch.ness]

After weeks of building my mothership piece by piece and hours (today) trying (and failing) to dock the lower engine core to the (already) 600 part upper core I went back to the VAB and tried one recklass attempt to launch the enitre thing (well, except for the planes) in one go.

Its almost completely dry tank wise at the moment, but it made it to orbit... by some voodoo, and now is just waiting for me to transfer Merly and the planes from the higher orbit ship and then I need to work out how many launches it will take to fuel this beast.

At launch:

Sorry about the night-launch... I did not expect it to fly.

In orbit (after being re-painted through Kerbpaint.

The planes wobble like made the way they'll be docked on but I should be able to do it without needing to use KAS struts at all. I did forget fuel lines between the SM's fuel tank and engines, but thats not a big concern (yet).

I've tested the Vall, Bop, and Pol landers and they perform amazingly. The Tylo lander works well enough on kerbin tests, but its going to be something of a white knuckle ride. Currently doing crew selection.

No mystery goo on any of my landers, so no Jeb level, but I'll be selecting a crew of 10 with the intent to land 2 kerbals on every moon (Tylo is the only moon for which this is accomplished in a 2 seated lander, for the other moons two landers will be brought to explore more of their surfaces. (Challenge 2 and 3 at the same time). I may need refueling missions sent to Jool, but I really won't know until I've had an injection burn and capture.

Should be able to salvage the old mothership as a fuel depot (since I'd mostly filled it by the time I figured out how to do this.

Edited June 1, 2014 by loch.ness
clarification

[Ziv]

Hi Everybody, I was on a Holiday for 10 days and I see I have missed a lot! I'll read and check everything in the next 1-2 days, sorry for the delay!

SSSPutnik: thank you for your continuous activity here and that you replies many questions! I really appreciate it so I was thinking about giving you a "promotion" like JOOL-5 Supervisor, what do you think?

[SSSPutnik]

That's fine, I don't mind as long as you don't. Any curly questions I will bump to you.

I actually have one now. Landing Kerbals on a moon. What counts for points? Just the first landing or is each cumulative? ( Kethane variant). Refuelling etc means multiple landings. Personally I think just the first landing.

Just finished the Kethane mission finally after months.

I had a lot of issues with game and or mod bugs. (Like craft plain vanishing, though I figured a way to avoid this). (Stuff would vanish on F9 but worked out if I went to the tracking centre first, stuff would stay put).

Also some minor movement of items attached to my craft. (Most of the issues were with Infernal Robotics I think). For instance a rotary controller moved from being centered to off centre by about two cubic struts worth of space).

My points will be negative, based on the mass of the ship I sent. But it was great fun.

I have a mining base on every moon, refueled main ship a bit, returned 5 Kerbals and some Kethane to Kerbin. Sent out a bunch of probes and sats.

You can see most of pics here, but I am still editing. There are a ton of em sorry.

I count a total of 1565 points subtracting start ship mass of 1360t = 205 points.

It was a crappy landing but I was tired...

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Hope you had a good holiday.

Edited June 17, 2014 by SSSPutnik

[bobcook]

My J-5 Challenge mission has now completed operations at Tylo. One moon done, four to go. It happened, but not as expected. Read about the mission here.

[Itoum]

I would like to try this challenge

But i got some question before

1- In the kethane version it says we can use KW B9 etc

but i have some mods that are not listed like Infernal robotic, Remote tech 2, Aies, Fasa, Procedural Parts, Far, Scan Sat can i use them ??

Can i do like a mother ships that sends drones on the moons before sending a lander with Kerbals onboard ?

Can i use this Ship ?

https://imgur.com/a/MBEgC#0

[SSSPutnik]

Hello Itoum.

Welcome and thanks for entering.

Regarding your questions.

Mods for the Kethane edition challenge are generally allowed. RT, IR, ScanSat, Aies and FASA should all be fine. FAR is OK, makes aerobraking trickier.

Procedural parts should be OK as long as the mass scales with the part. Does it do engines? If so that's probably not OK.

Your ship looks OK, what are the parts on the gold coloured tank? (Can't make them out due to res). Looks great.

[Itoum]

Thx for answering

Procedural Parts does not include engine only fuel tank wings and fairings

As for the gold tank here u are

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64796-Copernicus-MTV-components

[Patupi]

Since you've been away Ziv I thought I'd re-iterate my completion summary. Pics are a page or two back, and my thread on this is here

For the Jebediah level:

10189 science.

So, mods used:Alarm clock, MechJeb, Ship Manifest, Action Group Manager, TAC Fuel Balancer, and Editor Extensions.

Sending four Kerbals to each moon, including Tylo. Full science from the surface (except crew report. No capsule!), though missing some from orbit (I was lazy), and not doing much in Jool orbit at all.

Mothership:

At launch=1062tons, 402parts

In orbit=203tons, 288parts

Univeral Lander:

At launch=1062tons(?!? the same? Wierd!), 169parts

In orbit=233tons, 108parts

Interplanetary Booster:

At launch=2016tons, 128parts

In orbit=624, 56parts

Interplanetary Refueler:

At launch=2552tons, 263parts

In orbit=534tons, 54parts

Six crew on the mission in total, four landed on each moon.

Went to all Moons, did science on all of them (ALL OF THEM!) and managed to get home. Did need a ship to get the crew and the science back from Kerbin orbit. If needed I can dump the actual science probes back to the surface too, just didn't want to go through that six times for every landing!

Total time for the mission: 12 years 221 days! Yikes! Long trip

Edited June 6, 2014 by Patupi

[Oafman]

I'm thinking of trying to land 2 kerbals on each moon simultaneously. Well, I mean having 2 guys standing on each moon at the same time. So taking at least 10 kerbonauts, and 5 landers, all in one ship.

Has this been done? Can it be done? Can it be done by a relative novice, fudging their way through the mission? Will my CPU explode when it sees the size of the mothership?

On the last point, can I use a welding mod to get my part count down? Because if not, there's no way I can attempt this.

On a general note, what a great challenge, which seems to have brought out the best from the community, in terms of imagination and creativity.

[Himynameisjake]

I'm thinking of trying to land 2 kerbals on each moon simultaneously. Well, I mean having 2 guys standing on each moon at the same time. So taking at least 10 kerbonauts, and 5 landers, all in one ship.

Has this been done? Can it be done? Can it be done by a relative novice, fudging their way through the mission? Will my CPU explode when it sees the size of the mothership?

On the last point, can I use a welding mod to get my part count down? Because if not, there's no way I can attempt this.

On a general note, what a great challenge, which seems to have brought out the best from the community, in terms of imagination and creativity.

It can be done, and your PC can handle the load. Check out my v0.23 GT (in my signature). That was without ARM parts and subatantially lacking experience. Though I might recommend a universal lander for the smaller moons. Taylor is terrible, but you can do it. Jake has faith

[Oafman]

Your grand tour is hugely impressive, and gives me encouragement.

I've thought a little about how best to do this. My first idea was to undock all 5 landers on initial approach to Jool, so they can perform separate maneuvers for each moon and don't give up valuable dv areobraking, but I ended up deciding that would be close to unmanageable.

So I figured the better option would be to aerobrake the mothership just enough for a capture, then undock each lander when its moon is in the correct position, and head there under its own steam. Maybe each one will have a cradle for inter-moon travel, which it leaves in orbit while it lands, then RVs for the journey back to the mothership.

Does this sound like nonsense?

[Himynameisjake]

I regretted separating my crafts for the Jool aerobraking, it became quite a hassle. I auto saved at the wrong time, and it almost cost me the mission, so I would caution you to approach the idea of a split craft with care. Also, remember that if you have your mothership running wild through the Joolian system, you are constantly at risk for orbital approaches and undesired gravity assists. That's why I parked at Laythe, though you could also send yourself to a stable orbit elsewhere. Creating a tug for your lander isn't hard and doesn't cost a lot of fuel, and just embrace that Tylo is going to suck.

[SSSPutnik]

Aerobraking multiple craft at Jool to get moon intercepts would be awesome but very challenging to get right.

Most players keep one unit during aero brake, get in orbit around a moon, (Laythe ideal) then split up after that, or continue with mother ship.

Nuclear tugs are a good option although Kethane mining can negate the need.

@Oafman - I currently have at least 5 on every moon, I took two landers. In hindsight one lander is better but I needed to balance the mass. I had 4 mini bases the landers could drop and two base/rovers. Lost one base to the Kraken.

Edited June 4, 2014 by SSSPutnik

[SSSPutnik]

@Ziv and all - I will be on holidays next week, so expect fewer posts. Cheers!

[Mesklin]

My first idea was to undock all 5 landers on initial approach to Jool

Another one problem with simultaneous crafts aerobrake: only one active craft can feel atmosphere in one time (and cratfs in 2.5 km range), you can simply lost all your crafts except active

[Oafman]

Thank you all for the advice. I'm going to play it safe and try to put the whole thing in Laythe orbit, then spread out from there. This will also mean I don't have to take a tug for my Laythe plane, reducing mass and parts.

One more question: with jets being less effective on Laythe, I assume I'll also need a bigger liquid fuel engine on the plane than I would to ascend from Kerbin. How big is the difference? I gather there is also a hybrid engine, which I have yet to unlock - maybe that would be enough on its own?

Edit: On reflection, and based on how clueless I am with planes, maybe a lander with chutes and jets is a better option. But I guess my question still applies - do I also need a fairly big liquid engine on it?

Edited June 5, 2014 by Oafman

[Himynameisjake]

Thank you all for the advice. I'm going to play it safe and try to put the whole thing in Laythe orbit, then spread out from there. This will also mean I don't have to take a tug for my Laythe plane, reducing mass and parts.

One more question: with jets being less effective on Laythe, I assume I'll also need a bigger liquid fuel engine on the plane than I would to ascend from Kerbin. How big is the difference? I gather there is also a hybrid engine, which I have yet to unlock - maybe that would be enough on its own?

Edit: On reflection, and based on how clueless I am with planes, maybe a lander with chutes and jets is a better option. But I guess my question still applies - do I also need a fairly big liquid engine on it?

Nope, one jet fuel tank is more than enough, again, check my gt lol

Edited June 6, 2014 by Himynameisjake

[OgreMagi]

I have decided to take up the challenge but I am only in the building stages, spending a HUGE amount of time on a space plane but I haven't played around with them much.

My plan is to use the mothership concept, but all parts will/should be able to land on Val. 2 Tylo capable landers, one will be destined to land on Laythe as a base, one as a miner/refuel on Val, 2 ssto capable space planes one ferry people up from laythe one will return for research, and a mini lander for exploration emergency return to Kerbin ect ect. all will have the capability to mine/process kethane

wish me luck.

[SSSPutnik]

Luck wished and welcome to the challenge.

Where's that Ziv fellow?

[McFarnsworth]

Well, let's see if I can get this thing into orbit in a single launch.

Haven't tested anything yet, but should be fine, right?

[Himynameisjake]

Luck wished and welcome to the challenge.

Where's that Ziv fellow?

If you find him let me know, been hung up on a design because I'm not sure if clipping for aesthetics dq's me lol

[SSSPutnik]

I know he doesn't like clipping.

[SSSPutnik]

@McFarnsworth, that's a nice looking ship. Does it have dV for Tylo?