[CLOSED] Kerbin and Beyond: a Maturing Space Program

[Northstar1989]

My position for returning to Kerbin (from the north pole of Minmus) was sub-optimal compared to an equatorial launch site, but I didn't realize just HOW sub-optimal until it actually came time to return home...

First of all, I set off just pointing straight at Kerbin (specifically, my Mountaintop Launchpad near the KSC, because there's no way to target Kerbin directly), and burning. From the poles, that's actually a pretty time and fuel-optimal trajectory, as Kerbin will always be near the horizon, and you basically just establish an orbit pointing in the correct direction for a transfer burn...

Of course, I didn't just burn for a little while to establish an apoapsis, and then circularize. I saw no point in doing that.

The most fuel-optimal transfers actually leave from a sub-orbital trajectory, as you can be moving faster just after liftoff than at an orbital periapsis.- taking maximum advantage of the Oberth effect.. (specifically, all your energy is still kinetic- very little has been turned into gravitational kinetic energy yet)

Of course, this did require a second adjustment burn to cancel the component of my velocity moving in-line with Minmus orbit of Kerbin (the liftoff burn gave me escape velocity in an inward radial direction, but I still needed to cancel most of Minmus 274 m/s orbital velocity at that position in its orbit...)

And I was left with only 14 m/s fuel to spare afterwards (I did the burn manually, with help from MechJeb's ASAS- so steering losses were a bit higher than trusting it to the autopilot)

Combining a sub-optimal launch site (at the poles, you have very little of the rotational velocity you do from an equatorial launch site) with a fast but fuel-inefficient return plan (the most fuel-efficient plan would have involved burning a tiny bit towards Kerbin just to get my ship off the ground, then immediately turning and burning against Minmus orbital velocity, such as to have close to 0 m/s relative to Kerbin upon exiting Minmus' SOI) I ended up *just barely* making it back...

But, thanks to the radial inward component of my burn, the entire return should only take around 21 hours, guesstimating at what point my "orbit" (which has a periapsis *INSIDE* the planet Kerbin) actually enters Kerbin's atmosphere...

I used that last 14 m/s Delta-V to set my periapsis a tiny bit further from Kerbin's core (giving me a shallower re-entry angle) once I exit Minmus SOI (overshooting due to SOI-transition inaccuracies, and setting the periapsis outside the atmosphere would be fatal for my Kerbals from a roleplaying perspective- if I miss the aerocapture, I'll go shooting out into a solar orbit- and they would eventually run out of oxygen...)

I did that without any screenshots, but here's an image of the final trajectory:

Note the "negative" value for periapsis on the "Orbit Info" screen indicates a collision-course (don't worry, drag and my parachutes should slow the capsule down to a safe speed). The massive negative value for apoapsis, on the other hand, indicates I would shoot off with more than escape velocity if I missed the planet...

Regards,

Northstar

Edited February 25, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

Also, some of you might be interested- I moved the solar panels and battery pack from the fuel tank/engine section (which will be detached before re-entry and burn up in the atmosphere due to its lack of heat shielding- or rather disappear once it reaches a certain altitude when unloaded, as I don't have Deadly Reentry or anything like that installed) to the command module.

Sure, it will increase my touchdown velocity by a trivial amount- but you never know what scientfic data you might end up collecting... I might end up landing on or passing over in a biome I haven't exhausted yet (or that got reset with a later update to the base game)- or I might find I haven't taken enough crew reports to exhaust the subject in the upper atmosphere or something like that. If one of those situations comes up, I'll be glad for the extra electrical equipment to power my antenna.

It was also interesting to note that the battery pack retained its charge even when picked up and moved by my Kerbal. I wonder if I could find an interesting use for that at some point... (maybe in my next Career Mode game, before solar panels?)

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

The Raven Mk2 is now in circular orbit over Minmus at around 17.8 km. Here are the pics:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Got to run now, but I look forward to seeing the return of the Light Munar Explorer to Kerbin, the sending off of a planned mission to the Sun's SOI and back (for !Science!), possibly some more LME-style missions- and soon the arrival of the first ships of the flotilla at Duna...

Regards,

Northstar

Edited February 25, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

Another day, another (imaginary) dollar- I'll start you guys off with a few images of some scrapping operations I've been engaged in of late:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Unfortunately, I quite literally ran out of fuel performing these operations (to the point where I had to dump some of the RocketParts from the last vessel scrapped in orrder to make it back to the 350 km depot). As such, in the next couple missions, rather than cluttering up near-Kerbin space with debris I can't recycle in the short run, I'll more often be trying to dump spare stages on re-entry trajectories with Kerbin or impact trajectories with the Mun (which will also yield me some Science from the seismic sensors stationed there...)

Speaking of new missions, I present the Light Moon Explorer Mk2 (I changed the name, since it can reach either moon of Kerbin), and its mission to the Mun:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Note that the launch platform is significantly lighter in this version of the mission, as it is designed to launch unmanned from my mountaintop launch site (I find it exceedingly difficult to get Kerbals into my rockets from the launch site- so I will probably actually be removing all those Kerbals except two in the command module necessary to control the launchpad via the "recover" function... The Hitchiker modules themselves I can roleplay as being occupied by supply storage supporting my rocket launch from the site...) I also swapped the lander for a detachable seismic sensor probe, as I found the last lander design somewhat wanting, and the command module itself is capable of Munar landings...

The mission plan there involves rendezvous with the Munar Spacedock, where it will pick up Jerbo and Donely Kerman- who will both get one last chance to set foot on the Mun before returning to Kerbin. Expect some roleplaying there...

Regards,

Northstar

Edited February 25, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

Ok, so I decided to just go ahead and recover the Kerbals right away to reduce lag. Here they are posing for one last picture before their (simulated) helicopter ride comes to take them back to the KSC...

Now, off to prepare for a date that I'm pretty sure will end up with my being stood up instead of actually meeting the girl...

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

Yep, that went as expected- another no-show. As far as I'm concerned, online dating can stick it where it doesn't shine...

Anyways, meet the Light Moon Explorer Mk3:

It's equipped similarly to the Mk2, except it has a slightly longer main fuel tank (carefully adjusted to make the rocket's total fuel load as close to the maximum capacity of the Mountaintop Launchpad as possible), and a couple additional solar panels on the command module. Here are the rest of the screenshots of its ascent to orbit:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

The plan is for this thing to swing within EVA range of the 350 km depot, where it will pick up three of the four occupants of the depot (there is also a fifth Kerbal on board the Heavy Scrapper Ship currently docked with it). It will then proceed with a Munar insertion, much like the LME Mk2.

The idea is to deploy the seismic sensor probes from both missions before de-orbiting either command module, to maximize science gains (science reward increases with each additional sensor landed when you perform an impactor experiment).

The fuel tank between the command module and the seismic sensor probe on each vessel will serve as an impactor experiment- being detached as soon as the orbital periapsis passes within the Mun's surface during de-orbit (which will then give me a finite period of time to land the command module each time before the respective impactor collides with the surface somewhere on the opposite side of the Mun- which will happen later than the landing due to its longer trajectory to impact).

I'm not sure which biomes on the Mun I've already visited, other than the Midlands, the Highlands, and the Poles (I know I've also been to one of the craters this save). The Science Archives system doesn't work in this save since it was started before the respective update. It doesn't really much matter, though- the point of this mission is more to clean up remaining surface sample points (which, with one returned sample per biome, I haven't exhausted *anywhere* yet) and get the impactor and vessel retrieval science points, than to exhaust the science points available.

I didn't even remember to slap gravity scanners or thermometers (which are better-suited for probe missions anyways- and I don't want to advance scientifically too quickly, for roleplaying reasons) on these missions, so it's not like they're optimized by any means...

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

OK, so I got the Light Moon Explorer Mk3 over to the 350 km depot, and transferred over Chadlas, Thompfrod, and Malman Kerman:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Then, while the LME Mk2 approached its circularization burn around the Mun (at approx 450 km- to phase into a transfer position with the Munar Spacedock- which should take a while to do...), I decided to launch an LFO tanker to the 350 km depot rather than put it off any longer:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

It should be noted that this new Unmanned Heavy LFO Tanker design (with SRB's strapped onto the earlier design- at the expense of some large radial Rockomax liquidfuel engines) is only possible due to Kerbal Joint Reinforcement. Prior to that, the unrealistically large wobble on the launchpad with such a large rocket would cause random parts to fall off with this few launch clamps. Even so, the current design pretty much pushes the maximum limits of how large of a vessel I can launch with 16 launch clamps with the default KJR settings...

Interestingly, the main stage was able to make it to low orbit with the addition of the SRB's. I wouldn't have actually intentionally brought it to orbit, due to my current fuel problems with my scrapping operations (I wouldn't have nearly enough fuel to bring the entire mass in recycled RocketParts back to the depot), as well as the fact that the stage greatly exceeds the storage capacity of the Heavy Scrapper Ship (meaning I would need a larger scrapper ship, or much of the mass would go to waste when I only received 20,000 RocketParts from a stage worth a lot more...), but I needed to establish a low phasing orbit in order to get the upper stage of the fuel tanker to the 350 km depot in reasonable time anyways...

Perhaps someday I will find the fuel to bring a larger scrapper ship to the main stage of the tanker and back- or perhaps I will just accept the loss of part of the value and use the existing Heavy Scrapper Ship (I should have enough fuel to bring *it* back to the 350 km depot with a full load of RocketParts now...), but this whole situation does highlight an issue I have been anticipating for quite a while now- that inevitably, with recycling of fuel tankers launched from Kerbin and diversion of fuel to ships leaving the solar system, I would end up with a higher and higher ratio of RocketParts to fuel in my orbital depots- and effectively would have enough parts to build far larger rockets than I could ever hope to fuel...

My solution to this problem might also be interesting to some of you- aside from eventually producing fuel on the Mun without producing any RocketParts until the ratio becomes more reasonable, I also plan to divert an ever larger mass of RocketParts to static space stations. The majority of this will be the construction of newer, larger and more powerful Microwave Power Stations in higher orbits closer to the 350 km depot than the existing station; but I also plan to replace the 350 km depot itself with an even larger spacedock with higher fuel and RocketParts capacity at some point... The idea will be to construct a space station large enough to construct an Orion in-orbit; which will both alleviate the roleplaying issues of detonating thermonuclear devices in Kerbin's atmosphere, and also allow me to make use of this system's unparallelled ISP and thrust to move *MASSIVE* payloads to the Duna system... (what might I do with that much payload, you might ask? Well, aside from solar farms and orbital labs; I plan to build similarly massive space stations there, so that I can eventually construct a gigantic rocket in Duna orbit to colonize the Jool system in a single go, without the need to send an entire armada...)

Regards,

Northstar

P.S. For those curious, the Light Moon Explorer Mk3 is currently on a collision course with the Mun. I plan to perform an adjustment burn just inside the Mun's SOI to target it at one of the craters, and hope it's one I haven't visited before... A suicide burn near the surface will kill off its velocity- by far the fastest and most fuel-efficient way to make a Munar landing, if incredibly dangerous...

Edited February 26, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

The Light Moon Explorer Mk2 circularized smoothly:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

And then I rendezvoused the Heavy LFO Tanker with the 350 km Spacedock, and transferred over the fuel:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I ended up leaving the main launch stage of the tanker in a highly elliptical orbit that passes very near the 350 km depot's orbit though...

In hindsight, I'm not so sure *THAT* was such a good idea (I should have just detached it in its circular 84 km orbit, even though it still had some fuel left- my Scrapper ship could have retrieved the leftover fuel later...) Now it's both a potential collision hazard with the depot, and is extremely difficult for the scrapper ship to rendezvous with in the future.. I'll probably just end up "shooting it down" (i.e. terminating the flight) rather than recycling it, since it's too late to load a quicksave and undo my mistake...

Regards,

Northstar

Edited February 26, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

I just went ahead and terminated the tanker debris, because I remembered I already had THIS abandoned fuel tanker (the SSTO version I launched quite a while ago) in a circular orbit near the spacedock:

Recycling that, with a sufficiently large scrapper ship, should provide over 300 tons of RocketParts. So, I don't think I will be starved for RocketParts any time soon. The greater issue is actually constructing a larger scrapper ship at the 350 km depot (I'll need to launch a ship with the necessary construction tools to make use of all that recycled scrap- i.e. one with a spacedock identifier) and getting enough fuel there to move the parts back to the depot...

Speaking of which, I noticed the depot was already very close to a transfer window with the Mun- something I had been waiting for quite a while. I went ahead and plotted a transfer for the Heavy Scrapper Ship to the Mun:

And made the transfer:

Once there, the Heavy Scrapper Ship will rendezvous with the Munar Spacedock (located at an approximately 300 km Munar orbit), refuel, and then set out recycling some of the debris (two empty fuel tankers and the Munar Science Module) I left in Munar orbit. That should provide me more than enough RocketParts to finally get my Munar outpost (and fuel production) started- provided I have enough fuel left to land everything safely after the scrapping operations are finished...

Regards,

Northstar

P.S. I don't feel particularly bad building my Munar fuel production equipment out of recycled rockets. After all, basically all I realistically need is a few metal chambers for resource storage, electrodes to electrolyze stuff, metal drill bits to mine ice or regolith with, and electric motors to drive the drill bits. All those parts can be found in the Muanr debris- especially the Munar Science Module, which I must remind everyone was a regolith-mining and electrolysis vessel built on Kerbin...

Edited February 26, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

As the Light Moon Explorer Mk2 pulled up alongside the Munar Spacedock, Donely Kerman glanced out the window, and sighed.

"How beautiful it is out here", he thought.

"Doneley?" asked Jerbo- surprised by his compatriot's moment of silence, "What's going on?"

"Oh nothing" said Donely, "I was just lost in the tranquility of it all out here."

"YOU- taking a moment to smell the roses?" said Jerbo, surprised. "Well, I'm glad it's finally gotten across to you bud- now c'mon, let's get to the Mun!"

Soon, Donely was suited up and out the hatch. As he drifted away from the Munar Spacedock, he took one last look at his temporary home in space.

"Soon I'll be back with my family" he thought, and, without saying a word, he jetted over to the LME-2.

Jerbo was having a little more fun with his last day in space, on the other hand. As he shoved himself out the Munar Spacedock's hatch- the last lights in the airlock shutting down behind him, he was overcome by the sheer animalistic joy of it all.

"Donely, we're in SPACE!" Jerbo exclaimed, "I know I've always been the thoughtful one, but today, we are going to have FUN. Let's go out with a BLAST!"

"You better not be turning into Jebediah on me" Donely replied "And PLEASE, let's not have any explosions today."

"What's gotten into you?" Jerbo asked. "You know I can pilot this thing- remember the Munar Science Module!?"

"I remember its radiators falling off" was all Donely said.

"Aww c'mon, you know that wasn't my fault! The engineers said there was a defect in the structural material they were supported by..."

"Alright, well let's get this over with" replied Donely, as Jerbo approached the LME's hatch.

"Huh" Jerbo thought, "Your last day affects everybody differently." "Good thing *I'm* not as much of a mope today as Donely"- and with that, Jerbo secured the hatch behind him of the LME's Odin Command Module, and the two brave Kerbonauts began performing an inventory check of the LME-2 to make sure they knew where everything was...

"Beautiful" thought Jerbo, as he glanced out the window at the Mun one more time...

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

The Light Moon Explorer Mk3 hurtled towards the Mun...

Chadlas Kerman, trying not to look scared, thought of what lay ahead...

"It'll be no problem- just a quick suicide burn, and then we're landed" thought Chadlas, "But I sure don't get why we call these suicide burns..."

"What did you say? asked Thompford.

"Oh, nothing- I didn't realize I said that out loud..." said Chadlas meekly.

"You certainly did" replied Malman, "And they call them Suicide Burns because you'd have yo be suicidal to think of attempting one."

"You're not helping" replied Thompford.

"I'm fine guys- let's just get on with it" replied Chadlas, and with that, the three Kerbals returned to plotting their next maneuver...

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

Chadlas was relieved to hear the radio transmission:

"Light Moon Explorer-3, there's been a change of plans. We're not putting you guys through a suicide burn. Our scientists realized they already had plenty of samples from the Farside Crater- you'll be swinging around the Mun and landing further west instead."

OOC: After running a few "simulations" (F5/F9)- not all of which went so well due the how low the TWR is of the LME Mk2, I realized when I managed a successful landing that I already had plenty of Mun rocks from the Farside Crater. SO, the LME Mk2 will be swinging in a low orbit around the planet until I find somewhere I can land I haven't been before (a functional Science Archives system would really be helpful right now...)

Regards,

Northstar

Edited March 1, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

I don't much feel like roleplaying this one, so you guys will have to forgive me...

Anyways, the Light Moon Explorer Mk3 made a clean swing around the Mun, and landing somewhat downrange of the original approach. Everything went smoothly in this, although I wound up a little low on fuel...

Chadlas Kerman even put aside his fears, and volunteered to hang out the side of the capsule as it swung through the canyon I landed in, for !SCIENCE!

Fuel is going to be a little tight getting back (after I stole most of the fuel from the impact sensor probe, I had *just enough* fuel that I should be able to escape the Mun's gravity), but otherwise, I expect this mission to be a total success... Here are the rest of the screenshots:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

I decided to place the Light Moon Explorer Mk2 on a trajectory to reach the Mun's Polar Crater (after hearing there might be water-ice there with KSP-Interstellar, I wanted to see if the surface sample messages would be any different...) I also deployed its seismic sensor probe, and placed its impactor on a trajectory to make an impact elsewhere in the polar crater a bit earlier than the command module itself would land:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Unfortunately, the impactor detection system was acting up again. After about 5 tries (F5/F9, re-naming the vessel, nothing worked) I still don't have any impact data. I reverted to a save before the impact, and I'll have to try again later...

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I'm a bit fed up with stuff not working right... I'll finish this up again (as well as roleplaying for brave Jerbo and Donely Kerman) later.

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

After another FAIL at the impactor experiment generating any data:

I decided to just go ahead and land the LME-2:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

Jerbo Kerman looked hesitatingly out the window of the Light Moon Explorer Mk2:

He couldn't believe he was really there again! He was on the Mun!

After seemingly ages on board the Munar Spacedock, Jerbo was ecstatic to be getting the chance to set foot on the Mun again.

And not just anywhere-on the Mun's Polar Crater! Jerbo would be getting the chance to look for water on the Mun!

Although the Polar Impactor had failed to produce any useful data, Jerbo was sure the scientists back at KSC would be able to do something with the surface samples he would be returning. And, he would get the chance to go home and embrace his family again!

Without further hesitation, Jerbo secured his spacesuit and rushed out the airlock to set foot on the surface again:

Stopping to glance at the beautiful blue marble that was Kerbin on the horizon, Jerbo quickly scooped up a sample of the surface:

"Hmm, interesting. I bet the scientists at KSC will love this" muttered Jerbo to himself.

"Hey, wait for me!" exclaimed Donely Kerman, "You didn't think you were going to perform all the science by yourself and life us back off without my getting a chance to set foot out here, did you?" continued Donely.

"Besides, KSC directed us to take at least TWO samples of the surface- one to return so they can analyze it more, and one to upload preliminary data on using the instruments in the Odin Command Capsule- in case anything should happen to us on the way back." And with that, Donely scooped up a sample as well:

Jerbo was getting impatient with Donely- "Alright, you stay out here and take in the scenery then. I'm going to go upload those preliminary readings."

"Alright, see ya buddy!" replied Donely.

Jerbo returned to the Command Capsule, and soon had the data uploaded. Then, he glanced out the window:

"Whoa, Donely- where'd you go?!" exclaimed Jerbo.

"Right here buddy. Just taking a look around the area. Maybe I'll see something interesting" replied Donely, from his EVA comm:

"You know that's not going to give KSC any useful data" replied Jerbo.

"Now get back here before you hurt yourself!" Jerbo continued on "The last thing we need is an injury out here!"

"Yes, mother" replied Donely, and promptly turned around:

"Be careful on your way back" replied Jerbo

Donely, not listening, soon faceplanted onto the regolith near the LME-2:

"Donely, are you alright!?" inquired Jerbo, frantically.

"I'm fine buddy. That was FUN!" came Donely's reply. Soon, both Kerbals were back on the Command Capsule:

"You scared my bud. Don't go doing anything like that again." scolded Jerbo.

"Chill out man" came Donely's reply "It's our last day on the Mun, and I just thought I'd have a little fun with it..."

"You want to have some fun?" asked Jerbo. "Then make yourself useful, and take these controls while I throttle us up, and we make a hop over to the proper north pole here. KSC said if we had enough fuel leftover, it would be useful to touch down a larger command capsule over there than the last LME's lander. If we're lucky, we might even touch down in one of the Polar Lowlands locatinos the KSC seemed so interested in..."

"Alright, bud, let's go" replied Donely- and soon the LME Mk2 was lifting off the Mun again for a suborbital hop:

"I'm taking us low and fast Donely" said Jerbo "I want to make sure we don't spend too much time getting irradiated by the Sun out here- and besides, we'll get a better view of the terrain this way."

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

Soon Jerbo and Donely Kerman had touched back down at a more distant location on the Mun. However, it seemed thay had a problem:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

After touching down on the Mun again, Jerbo breather a sigh of relief from the stress of the low-altitude landing. However, his relief was short-lived...

"Uhh Jerbo, is that fuel gauge accurate?"

"Looks to be, why?" said Jerbo, his breath caught in his throat.

"Jerbo, we're not going to have enough fuel to make it back to Kerbin like this. In fact, we might not even have enough fuel to make it into Munar orbit from here."

Jerbo's anticipation turned into dread "So what do you propose we do then?" asked Jerbo.

"I don't know," said Donely "Let me get Mission Control on the line..."

OOC: At this point I have two options- for the Kerbals to grab the Surface Samples, and EVA their way to low orbits after the Comman Module gets them in as high a suborbital trajectory as it can- from which point a rescue vessel from the Munar Spacedock would recover them; or for the Munar Spacedock to send a small refueling-lander to the Command Module. I'm opting for the latter, because I believe I still have Science Points left to gain from returning vessels from the Munar surface... I'll let you guys know how my rescue plan ends up in the end.

Regards,

Northstar

P.S. Jerbo popped out of the capsule for a minute to try and de-stress, while waiting for Donely on the radio. He also took a surface sample while there:

Edited March 3, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

Short of launching a tanker directly from the KSC, my main tanker options are to launch a tanker from the Munar Spacedock or to launch a tanker from the 350 km depot.

Since the 350 km depot was in need of the tools (Spacedock identifier) to complete planned upgrades converting it into a proper spacedock (I've got to find *SOME* way to put all those recycled RocketParts to good use- why not use them to help construct new rockets and Microwave Power Transmission satellites from the 350 km station? These RocektParts are of course being used to complement parts hauled from Kerbin- which might reflect some of the harder to manufacture/recycle components, and the solar panels for the power satellites...), I decided to just go ahead and throw the tools (a Spacedock Identifier part) on a LFO tanker and send it up... Note the Spacedock Identifier visible in the close-up second-last picture in the album.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

OK, so I got the Spacedock Identifier-carrying LFO Tanker up to the 350 km depot, and docked it successfully. I even got the Altitude Launch Test Rocket I launched earlier there as well, to transfer its supplies to the new depot once completed.

However, I don't seem to be able to construct anything (even very small vessels) at the depot anymore, after constructing a tiny vessel vessel consisting of nothing but a couple solar panels, a radial KAS connector port, and an octagonal strut to add solar panels to the Altitude Launch Test Rocket (it ran out of power shortly after arriving).

So, I will have to put off building the new spacedock until later. Also, I designed some modules for my Munar outpost, as well as a fuel lander to refuel the Light Moon Explorer Mk2 (it looks like I will be sending the rescue craft from the Munar Spacedock after all). So I look forward to completing those missions later as well.

Sorry to leave things inconclusive for you guys. There's nothing I can do about this bug at the moment- I tried several different things, and nothing seems to work...

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

OK, sorry I've been gone so long. I took a temporary hiatus from KSP, and just now came back to it...

So first of all, I docked the Altitude Launch Test Rocket with the 350 km depot, and transferred over its measly quantity of LFO just to get that out of the way. I got some nice pictures too: I forgot how cool it is essentially parallel parking two (or three, in this case) missiles in orbit hundreds of thousands of meters above Kerbin's surface...

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Anyways, after much trial-and-error (and even a re-install of Orbital Construction Re-Redux), I finally figured out what the problem was with constructing the new 350 km spacedock (or a fuel lander to save the Light Moon Explorer Mk2 mission, or almost anything else for that matter).

Apparently, for some reason the spacedock detection algorithm is using the Minmus Spacedock as a sort of "default". If the Minmus Spacedock doesn't havve enough RocketParts to construct a given craft, it cannot be built at *ANY* of my spacedocks, regardless of how many parts they have...

In the future, I'll probably want to avoid this problem by switching over all my orbital construction aside from the Duna Heavy Equipment Platform to the new orbital infrastructure for Extraplanetary Launchpads (which relies on manual selection of the spacedock rather than a flawed auto-detection algorithm). But in the meantime, it appears my only option is to send a large RocketParts tanker to the Minmus Spacedock directly from the KSC...

Regards,

Northstar

[Specialist290]

Don't worry about taking a hiatus. We've all had moments where we need to recharge our batteries and focus on something else for a bit.

Looking forward to seeing more

[Northstar1989]

In accordance with my plans, I launched a modified version of my earlier RocketParts Tanker design to low Kerbin orbit:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

It has enough fuel to make it to the 350 km depot, where refueling will provide it with enough Delta-V to make it to Minmus and dock with the spacedock there... After it arrives, it will transfer over its entire load of RocketParts, and then some of them will be utilized to immediately build a scrapper ship there and recycle the tanker itself for additional RocketParts.

This will provide the Minmus Spacedock with over 120 tons of RocketParts- more than enough to construct a sizeable new spacedock in both Minmus orbit (to get rid of the OrbitalConstruction identifier there which is causing issues), and to match the construction cost of a spacedock at 350 km orbit.

It order to avoid further issues with OrbitalConstruction, the new spacedocks will all be built equipped with Extraplanetary Launchpads orbital build systems. I will continue to use Orbital Construction warehouses because they allow me to store more RocketParts in a single part, and don't appear to cause any issues in themselves; but I won't be building any new OrbitalConstruction spacedock identifiers from now on, and will be recycling all the old ones except the one on the Duna Heavy Equipment Deployment Platform. I will also have to remember to leave enough RocketParts at each spacedock to build a recycling ship capable of recycling the previous spacedock...

I'm really not sure what caused this issue in the first place (the Munar Spacedock has never caused similar issues with construction at other spacedocks, even when it was completely empty), but I'm going to head off future such problems by transitioning out of the OrbitalConstruction build system bit by bit... Eventually I will even delete the plugin and parts for the Spacedock Identifier and Spacebuilt Identifier from the mod folder- leaving only the parts configs for the RocketParts storage modules. This should also save me a bit of computer memory.

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

The Light Moon Explorer Mk1 returned from its journeys, and despite a VERY steep re-entry trajectory (at one time pulling over 23 G's), it made it safely back to Kerbin's surface with its valuable scientific data:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Next up, I still need to get those abandoned ships in Munar orbit recycled so I can use the RocketParts build a fuel lander for the Light Moon Explorer Mk2 mission stranded near the poles...

Also, I'm going to want to consider whether the LME-3 (the mission landed in one of the Mun's canyons) should make a pit-stop for refueling at the Munar Spacedock on the way home (my first instinct is, yes). And, whether I should keep it landed a bit longer before its return trip to try and collect seismographic data from the nearby probe for physical return to Kerbin if I can get an impactor experiment to work...

Regards,

Northstar

Edited March 25, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

First of all, here are some unsorted pictures of my full refueling (any excess fuel will be delivered to the Munar Spacedock) of the Rocketparts Tanker at the 350 km Depot, and scrapping of the decommissioned Munar Science Module with my Heavy Scrapper Ship and delivery of the RocketParts to the Munar Spacedock:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Stuff gets weird though. When toying with my design of Heavy Fuel Lander for the Munar colony (I designed two classes of fuel lander- a light one designed mostly for rescue operations, and a heavier one designed mainly for servicing my Munar outpost's fuel-production facilities), the idea struck me for some reason to try out building it with Orbital Construction now that I had delivered additional RocketParts to the Munar Spacedock:

As you'll see, quite clearly this lander can be built at ANY of three spacedocks- the 350 km Depot, the Munar Spacedock, or the Duna Heavy Equipment Deployment Platform. This is despite the fact that *ONLY* the Munar Spacedock received any additional RocketParts, and previously vessels like this lander (and in fact much lighter than this lander) could not be constructed any of my 4 spacedocks...

My new theory is that the issues I was having with OrbitalConstruction resulted from having the Spacedock Identifier and the RocketParts storage on two different vessels which were technically only docked with each other.

Somehow, providing the Munar Spacedock with RocketParts circumvented the detection issue- likely as it was another vessel IN THE SAME SYSTEM as the 350 km Depot. Prior to that, only the Minmus Spacedock provided an alternative building location in the Kerbin system (which would explain the size limit of exactly 0.16 tons I was experiencing on vessels I could build prior to providing additional RocketParts to the Munar Spacedock- the Minmus Spacedock holds exactly 0.16 tons of RocketParts at the moment) as the DHEDP is somewhere out in Kerbol orbit en-route to Duna...

As this is the first time I have had this problem, and Extraplanetary Launchpads is known to be having some bugs/issues of its own with its orbital construction system at the moment, I will probably just persevere with using Orbital Construction Re-Redux mod for my orbital construction needs. I will have to be careful to build at the 350 km depot BEFORE I use up any of the RocketParts on the Munar Spacedock however, as I won't be able to build any craft larger than the current RocketParts stock of the Munar Spacedock at the 350 km depot until this issue is resolved (likely by building an intermediary craft with a Spacedock Identifier *AND* a RocketParts storage module at the 350 km depot, and then building the larger planned spacedock from there- as the new spacedock design weighs in at almost 120 tons- far more than the current RocketParts stock on the Munar Spacedock)

I'll get things worked out somehow. More on that soon.

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

Back to having no idea what's going on...

I built this simple vessel (really little more than a bunch of RocketParts storage modules, a Spacedock Identifier, and a probe core), to try and put the 350 km Depot's RocketParts and Spacedock Identifier in the same vessel so I could upgrade the 350 km Depot. Here it is before orbital construction:

And then I found that I could no longer build anything larger than about the 2.15 tons left over on the 350 km depot (I transferred almost all the RocketParts to the Construction Ship on build). Nor did dumping the 350 km Depot's remaining RocketParts or undocking it from its Spacedock Identifier (in F5/F9 "simulations") help either.

So, Orbital Construction continues to act up like a spoiled child on crack/cocaine, and I have no idea how to fix it... I should have just stuck with building the rescue vehicle at the Munar Spacedock earlier when I still could, and then worried about fixing the 350 km depot later...

My best bet at this point is probably to send another RocketParts Tanker up, and top back off the 350 km Depot. Meanwhile, the fully-fueled RocketParts Tanker at 350 km will head off to Minmus to eventually rendezvous with the Minmus Spacedock when it arrives, if that doesn't fix the problem. Yeah, that should work... hopefully.

Regards,

Northstar

Edited March 25, 2014 by Northstar1989