Can(and will) these two crafts ever meet in this orbit around Kerbin?

[Commissioner Tadpole]

I've sent Jetster 3 to an orbit across Kerbin, and in the way I jettisoned part of the rocket that ended up in an endless orbit around Kerbin, sort of like a satellite, though relatively useless. Now I've sent Jetster 4 in an attempt to see if it can have enough fuel for a Mün trip(and no, it doesn't because it is too heavy), and after I got it into Kerbin orbit, I began to think whether Jetster 3 and Jetster 4 can ever meet.

Here's their current orbit:

As you can see, Jetster 3's orbit is highly elliptical, and though you can't see it, it's also slightly eccentric, which ensures that they cannot collide, while Jetster 4's orbit is much more circular and horizontal. I don't want them to collide, though, I just want them to get close enough so Jeb can EVA and hover around the floating "satellite". I tried to warp for quite a long time, but they never seemed to get closer than 92 kilometers, so I'm slightly losing my hopes.

Can anyone confirm if they can get not too close, but just close enough so I can EVA out of Jetster 4, take a look around Jetster 3 and safely return to Jetster 4 without running out of EVA fuel and being stranded in space for eternity?

[Commissioner Tadpole]

Just noticed this is in the wrong section. I need someone to move it.

[Danish_Savage]

As long as the orbits cross each other, and the isnt a resonance( Like Jool and Eeloo's 3:2) they will meet sometime, however when is quite hard to say.

[oggylt]

with some distance margin.. yes they can it is a almost nice docking orbit

[[email protected]]

It is possible they could come close, however they will be passing each other at a significant speed. You should watch some docking tutorials if you want to bring two ships close together, even if you don't intend to dock them.

Edit: Also, your orbit is actually in the atmosphere, do not take control of the lower ship while passing through periapsis, you will fall out of the atmosphere.

Edited November 11, 2013 by [email protected]

[architeuthis]

If the periapsis of Jester 3 was coincident with a point on Jester 4's orbit, and assuming they aren't resonant orbit they will eventually pass close by one another. But, since they aren't on the same plane you might have to wait for a long while. Thing is if they ever do encounter each other, Jester 3 will just whizz right past Jester 4 with a huge relative velocity: no time for sight seeing. If you want to EVA over you will have to match orbits.

EDIT: good god like 4 replies in the time it took to type mine:)

Edited November 11, 2013 by architeuthis

[Commissioner Tadpole]

If the periapsis of Jester 3 was coincident with a point on Jester 4's orbit, and assuming they aren't resonant orbit they will eventually pass close by one another. But, since they aren't on the same plane you might have to wait for a long while. Thing is if they ever do encounter each other, Jester 3 will just whizz right past Jester 4 with a huge relative velocity: no time for sight seeing. If you want to EVA over you will have to match orbits.

EDIT: good god like 4 replies in the time it took to type mine:)

Well, this sucks. I don't want to ruin Jetster 4's perfect circular orbit, and Jetster 3 is just the remains of a spaceship stage that has no command module or fuel, so it's perma-static unless something pushes it.

[architeuthis]

From your picture it almost looks like the Jester 3 debris will re-enter Kerbin's atmosphere. But why is it so important to you?

[Commissioner Tadpole]

From your picture it almost looks like the Jester 3 debris will re-enter Kerbin's atmosphere. But why is it so important to you?

I know, I thought the same thing until I warped the game and it never seemed to re-enter Kerbin, so I guess it's a satellite now.

And it isn't too important(at least not as important as my main goal to get to the Mün), I just wanted to see if Jetster 3 would ever meet it's sucessor.

[Magicide]

As they are it would be quite a long time to meet and as others have said, they would pass quickly. If you wanted to set up an intercept you would do best by taking Jester 4 to a higher circular orbit and then plotting an intercept at Jester 3's periapsis or apoapsis once they would both meet there, you can then burn prograde/retrograde to adjust the other orbit node to match while at closest approach. It is definitely easier matching circular orbits but with a bit of maneuver node playing you can match eccentric orbits easily enough.

[[email protected]]

It will only remain a satellite so long as you do not actively take control of the ship as it dips below 70 KM (atmosphere). The reason is that the ship is not subject to physics while not being controlled, but if time warped after switching to Jetster 3 it would indeed drop out of the sky.

[Kulebron]

If you want to deorbit the debris "honestly", just switch to it and let it reenter. It will turn physics on and crash into the ground. Or just terminate it in tracking station. This is a strange simplification of KSP, for unknown reason, that they decide to put things not controlled on "rails" (same non changing orbit) unless it flies really low (25km for Kerbin) in that case the vessel instantly disappears when it descends to that altitude.

[celem]

I know, I thought the same thing until I warped the game and it never seemed to re-enter Kerbin, so I guess it's a satellite now.

Stuff doesnt aerobrake if you are not currently 'flying' it. Go figure. If you watch from it's pov it ought to deorbit at periapsis

[Commissioner Tadpole]

Ah, okay. But what if I am next to Jetster 3 but while controlling Jetster 4?

[CrazedGunman502]

Ah, okay. But what if I am next to Jetster 3 but while controlling Jetster 4?

If you are next to Jester 3, physics would be applied to it, and will de-orbit aswell.

[Frederf]

Technically physics doesn't require you to be flying it, just near it. If you formation fly along side some debris it will have physics applied to it.

For orbital debris to be auto deleted as "definitely in the atmosphere" it needs to dip below 23km.

[AnalogAddict]

Lower Jester 4's orbit from AP. You'll see the Orange and Purple "closest approach" indicators move around the planet as your orbital period decreases you'll catch up to your target, you should get an encounter with low amounts of delta-v.

Conversely, you can raise Jester 4's orbit, increase your period and allow the debris to catch up to you -> from their positions, I would wager this move to be more delta-v intensive as you will increase the amount of relative speed to your target at your closest approach.

[Taki117]

Since Jester 3 is nothing more than ship debris I would just focus on it and let it fall. No sense leaving perfectly good space junk floating around to cause trouble for any space stations you might put up.

[SuperBigD60]

Yeah, or if its really just debris, you could just terminate the flight from the tracking station

However, trying to figure out if they will collide is similar to trying to predict if some killer asteroid is going to hit the earth in the future, which I'm guessing is non-trivial.

[Godot]

If I see this correctly, Jester 3s Debris Periapsis is below 70 km ...

therefore, if you keep it as your selected ship (especially during yur pahses near the Periapsis),

and don´t have (non physical) time warp activated during this time,

its Apoapsis will go down with every orbit ...

it is to assume that, after several orbits, it will be lower than the orbit of Jester 4 (with other words, at this time there won´t be any chance anymore, to hit Jester 4s orbit)

If I guess this correctly, the Periapsis is at ~45km ... meaning that it is some distance away from meaningful air pressure (below 40km) ... meaning that the degradation of Apoapsis might happen slowly.

(all the things I said don´t count, of course, if the debris isn´t your selected ship (or very close to one), as then it is put on rails and air presure isn´t applied)

Edited November 14, 2013 by Godot

[radonek]

…This is a strange simplification of KSP, for unknown reason, that they decide to put things not controlled on "rails" (same non changing orbit) …

This is actually important and useful simplification from gameplay standpoint. When you are doing some delicate maneuvring, you don't want to be disturbed by orbital perturbations elsewhere, right? Sure, that you can find your kerbals on exactly same orbit where you left them is bit uneralistic, but its part of what makes larger space program manageable. Unless you are real space agency and pay people specialized in monitoring and stationkeeping :-)

Plus, given how 23km "collision" behavior is designed, there may be performance issues with computing drag in this case.