Would Laythe really be habitable, Redux

[Holo]

How can Jool have the Radiation of Jupiter when it is smaller than Earth?

I like how People are playing with their fantasies but they are drifting too far off sometimes

The KSP Universe is highly unrealistic but it is fun to play with it though.

Laythe would be habitable even if you need an oxygen mask. But Laythe is impossible to exist.

There is no matter in the Universe that provides almost the Gravity of Earth (9,78m/s² [Laythe 7.85 m/s²]) on something as big as 4-Vesta (0,25m/s²).

Correct me if I am wrong

KSP is scaled down 11 times. Hence, everything acts as if it is 11 times larger.

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

KSP is scaled down 11 times. Hence, everything acts as if it is 11 times larger.

But we are talking about Laythe, and not a 11 times larger Laythe, arent we?

[Holo]

But we are talking about Laythe, and not a 11 times larger Laythe, arent we?

You could, but most discussion to that end is meaningless and counterproductive (often with someone making the perceptive observation that celestial bodies that dense can't exist). Also, it turns out that very little of what we know about planetary formation applies to worlds 10 times denser than lead - who knew.

Anyway, 11 times larger Laythe is how Laythe would be if it was real - part of what the really in the title meant.

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

I am not picking a fight here

a World "like" Laythe would be cool even it was 20 times as large.

It is still a quite romantic Idea to find such a place but I prefer Earth. Hopefully we dont screw this place as hard as we try right now.

[Spanier]

Asuming Laythe is just scaled down to ~10% it would be possbile but uninhabitable:

The oxygen could be produced by some organisms living on hydrothermal vents and escaped from the oceans to the atmosphere. The problem of liquid oceans could be explained by some extreme greenhouse effect from the water vapor and lots of CO₂. Since this isn't enough to keep pure water liquid, the oceans could be made out of some sulfuric acid solution, allowing melting points of up to -60C° at concentration levels of ~30% (battery acid). This could result from fairly high SO₂ levels in the atmosphere, that react with the carbon dioxide and the water vapor. The rest of the atmosphere could be composed of N₂.

And noone said, Jool has such an extreme magnetic field as Jupiter does have, it could also be as strong as Saturn's or Earth's magnetic field and therefore, Laythe wouldn't be stripped off it's atmosphere.

Conclusion:

Ocean: ~70% H₂O, ~30% H₂SO₄

Atmosphere: ~10% O₂, ~50% CO₂, ~35% N₂, ~5% SO₂

Surface Temperatur: <-30C°

EXTREMELY TOXIC!!!

Edited December 22, 2013 by Spanier
Recognized that sulfur trioxide dissolves exothermally in water

[czokletmuss]

-snip-

Ammonium hydroxide?

[Spanier]

Ammonium hydroxide?

Would burn under oxygen.

[czokletmuss]

Oh. What a shame, oceans of ammonia hydroxide would be perfect for Laythe (liquid in even -90 degrees Celsius). But what if oxygen was only produced in tiny amounts in the upper layers of the atmosphere?

BTW, the truth is that devs add oxygen to Laythe using Rule of Cool, not scientific method, so all we do in this thread is pure speculation. It's like asking which is faster, Millenium Falcon or Enterprise - both are made up (and use broken physics)!

[mknote]

Okay, let's answer this thing.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm about a semester away from getting my Master's degree in physics with a focus on astronomy and astrophysics, so while I may not be an expert, I'm probably more knowledgeable than the lay person.

Now, it is my belief that Laythe is most certainly habitable. I see two main points being brought up against this supposition, which I'll refute in turn:

Temperature: There's no reason to suggest that Laythe has a particularly low temperature. Assuming that it were in real life (i.e. 11 times larger, more massive, more distant from the star, etc.), it would be a Venus- to Earth-sized world in orbit of a Jupiter-like planet, and be in a 1:2:4 resonance as it is in game. This means enormous tidal heating, leading to a very high level of volcanic activity and out-gassing. Just look at Io. Unlike Io, however, Laythe has an atmosphere to trap heat produced by geological (laythalogical?) activity, and the atmosphere and (more importantly) huge ocean would effectively transport the heat around the moon, producing a fairly consistent temperature. It's quite conceivable that this temperature could be above the freezing point of water. Thus, it is quite likely that Laythe has a chilly but hardly freezing average surface temperature, despite the distance from its parent star. This higher-than-expected temperature would be the result of tidal heating generated by the Laplace resonance combined with the efficient transfer of heat by the atmosphere and ocean.

Radiation: This is a non-issue. Again assuming a Venus- to Earth-sized world, and combined with the tidal heating and quick rotation (compared to Venus, at least), Laythe almost certainly has a magnetic field comparable in strength to the Earth's. After all, Ganymede has a magnetic field despite being only half the mass of Mercury, so Laythe must almost surely have a strong magnetic field (as should Tylo and, less certainly, Vall). This magnetic field would shield most of Laythe from Jool's radiation belts, although the polar regions might be significantly more hostile because of it. However, even if Laythe has no magnetic field, its atmosphere would still adequately shield Laythe's surface from the Joolian radiation belts. Being in orbit of Laythe might be deadly, but on the surface you'd hardly be able to detect the radiation. By the by, the combination of a magnetic field and the atmosphere would produce absolutely spectacular and constant aurorae, which would be a great feature to add in closer to the official release.

So, in conclusion, it's this humble physics student's opinion that Laythe is most certainly habitable, albeit a bit cooler than we're comfortable with. The presence of oxygen in the atmosphere further indicates that life already exists on the moon, as there simply isn't another known process that could account for its presence in the atmosphere.

Edited December 23, 2013 by mknote
forgot three words

[Rokker]

Oh. What a shame, oceans of ammonia hydroxide would be perfect for Laythe (liquid in even -90 degrees Celsius). But what if oxygen was only produced in tiny amounts in the upper layers of the atmosphere?

BTW, the truth is that devs add oxygen to Laythe using Rule of Cool, not scientific method, so all we do in this thread is pure speculation. It's like asking which is faster, Millenium Falcon or Enterprise - both are made up (and use broken physics)!

Psh whaaaat? The Millenium Falcon doesn't use broken physics. Hell, it made the Kessel Run in 12 parse... oh wait.

Okay, let's answer this thing.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm about a semester away from getting my Master's degree in physics with a focus on astronomy and astrophysics, so while I may not be an expert, I'm probably more knowledgeable than the lay person.

Now, it is my belief that Laythe is most certainly habitable. I see two main points being brought up against this supposition, which I'll refute in turn:

Temperature: There's no reason to suggest that Laythe has a particularly low temperature. Assuming that it were in real life (i.e. 11 times larger, more massive, more distant from the star, etc.), it would be a Venus- to Earth-sized world in orbit of a Jupiter-like planet, and be in a 1:2:4 resonance as it is in game. This means enormous tidal heating, leading to a very high level of volcanic activity and out-gassing. Just look at Io. Unlike Io, however, Laythe has an atmosphere to trap heat produced by geological (laythalogical?) activity, and the atmosphere and (more importantly) huge ocean would effectively transport the heat around the moon, producing a fairly consistent temperature. It's quite conceivable that this temperature could be above the freezing point of water. Thus, it is quite likely that Laythe has a chilly but hardly freezing average surface temperature, despite the distance from its parent star. This higher-than-expected temperature would be the result of tidal heating generated by the Laplace resonance combined with the efficient transfer of heat by the atmosphere and ocean.

Radiation: This is a non-issue. Again assuming a Venus- to Earth-sized world, and combined with the tidal heating and quick rotation (compared to Venus, at least), Laythe almost certainly has a magnetic field comparable in strength to the Earth's. After all, Ganymede has a magnetic field despite being only half the mass of Mercury, so Laythe must almost surely have a strong magnetic field (as should Tylo and, less certainly, Vall). This magnetic field would shield most of Laythe from Jool's radiation belts, although the polar regions might be significantly more hostile because of it. However, even if Laythe has no magnetic field, its atmosphere would still adequately from the Joolian radiation belts. Being in orbit of Laythe might be deadly, but on the surface you'd hardly be able to detect the radiation. By the by, the combination of a magnetic field and the atmosphere would produce absolutely spectacular and constant aurorae, which would be a great feature to add in closer to the official release.

So, in conclusion, it's this humble physics student's opinion that Laythe is most certainly habitable, albeit a bit cooler than we're comfortable with. The presence of oxygen in the atmosphere further indicates that life already exists on the moon, as there simply isn't another known process that could account for its presence in the atmosphere.

Seems like a solid argument from someone who likely knows a bit. more on the subject than most of the others who commented including me.