[WIP] Gizmo Rocketry Concepts

[CluelessModeler]

Ran into a bit of a unique situation, possibly? I'm working on doing a Star 37FMV for an upper stage, I've got it modeled just the way I want it. I wrote config files for it, got it through unity, and it loads up perfectly.

However, when you go to attach it to a rocket, it slows the program to a crawl, and it won't do much else. It'll go to the launch pad, and just take forever for the physics load to run. But, you can't do anything besides move the view, you can't select it to get to the GUI or anything. Just scroll around.

I went back and looked through everything I know, and the best bet I have, is that Unity won't let me load up a convex collider for the tank portion of it (The biggest part on it), any thoughts?

[Guest]

Hmm, what shape did you made your collider in? It should be simple, as simple as possible, in fact. If it's too high-poly, it'll slow the game down. Basically, your best bet would be to re-make this collider.

[CluelessModeler]

It's just a Sphere, I cut it in half, mirrored it across the z-axis, now it's pill-shaped. I just use convex collider in Unity. Am I wrong for doing that?

[Guest]

I don't know, you'd need an Unity expert. Perhaps use a lower poly sphere?

Also, I found a nice mod which replicates Athena I and II. That means you can not worry about Castor 120 and Orbus 21 motors. There's also another mod out there that is making a Castor 30.

[CluelessModeler]

Man, I better get this done quick, or else everyone's going to do the parts I was planning on doing.

[CAPFlyer]

Do whatever you want man. While it's nice, the StarShine addon hasn't been updated to 0.22 (officially). There's nothing that prevents you from doing your own. I say if you're going to build the Minotaur, why not build the whole ATK/Orbital family since there are some stages that are interchangeable between the rockets and having consistent textures and stats between the various parts is nice to have.

[CluelessModeler]

That's a good point... I could just go down the list of ATK products.

Interesting.

[Guest]

Yeah, that would be nice, but since we do have Athena already, I think that we should first focus on stuff that hasn't been done already. That means Castor motors can wait, while Minotaur family (Orion motors) and Star upper stages should be the current focus.

Also, I think I've compiled a list of "Stars" that could be of interest. Some are current, most are historical:

Star 17

Star 27 (also known as Orbital Insertion Stage)

Star 37:

B (with an optional Burner 2 assembly)

D

E

FM

FMV

Star 48:

PAM-D

V

That's a lot of pellet-shaped gunpoweder cans, but they're all quite similar,really. That would pretty much cover KSP needs for solid kick motors.

[CluelessModeler]

I like it. I've just started going down the list in the ATK product guide.

[Guest]

Looking forward to seeing the results. There weren't many solid-powered kick motors in history of KSP modding, so your pack will be the first.

[CluelessModeler]

So I get a +1 for originality?

*holds breath*

[Guest]

Indeed. Also, you could try making Star 26B as a part of Burner 2A upper stage, while we're at it.

[CluelessModeler]

I think I could make that happen! I found an interesting way to model these things. In the product guides, there are what I presume to be scale drawings. (At least, that's how I'm treating them.)

What I do, is put that on a plane in blender, go into texture mode to see the thing, then I insert a circle of the correct size, in this case I'll just say a 34.1" radius circle, and scale the picture to the size of that part. Using that method, I actually was able to model a Minotaur 5 in about 15 minutes, I'm working on textures and configs now, I'll release it later in the day today, or tomorrow, depending on how far I get. (I really ought to be studying...)

Good times though. Good times indeed.

[Guest]

Are the Burners in the ATK Product Guide? That's an old stage, back from when ATK was called Thinkol. Burners flew on Thor rockets and early Deltas.

Oh, and since you're got a quick method of making simple kick motors, how about Altair series? Altair 3 is also called FW-4D and Altair 3A is Star 20. It's quite widely used. The others are quite similar, but being earlier designs, they only have an "X" designation. They often flew on Atlas rockets.

[CluelessModeler]

I'll add Burners later, but they aren't in the ATK product guide, Thiokol hasn't put out a guide like that in years. I'll have to consult my father, who worked for them for a number of years, if he knows anywhere that I can get ahold of some dimensional information on them.

[Guest]

Well, Thiokol (sorry for the mistake, I'm still on antibiotics) de facto became ATK, so the motors are the same. However, Burner upper stages were retired before internet even existed, so even if they were commercially offered (and not military issue only), they'd be in a vintage paperback catalog. They consisted of a solid motor, a maneuvering assembly and an adapter of some sort. Don't look for them in solid motor lists, as they were complete upper stage assemblies.

[CluelessModeler]

I wasn't trying to be a jerk! I didn't even noticed you misspelled it until you replied.

So, you're saying it was kind of like the pictures that ATK has released of the mix of upper stage rockets linked together structurally? Like the Star 48BV/Star37FM in the Minotaur V? I hadn't even heard of the burner series until you posted about it, so I'm just looking for clarification.

[Guest]

Well, yeah. Burner 2A would look sort of like that. Burner 2 looked sort of like this:

http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/burner2.jpg

This is a Burner 2A, but I can only see the top motor:

http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/Tb2.jpg

I couldn't find any pics of Burner 1. Might've to do with it being an old, small stage used mostly for classified payloads on an obscure rocket...

[CluelessModeler]

Got it! I'll work that one out later! But it's definitely interesting! A quick google search for Burner 2A revealed that it was originally designed for Defense Department Weather satellites. Very interesting, definitely paved the way for more advanced upper stage solid stages.

[Guest]

Yeah, many of the stages I proposed are quite a piece of history. A variant of Star 37 launcher the Voyager probes, and they were used in a great number of US-launched missions. Altair I was used as a 3rd stage on a first US orbital rocket, the Vanguard (an embarassing failure, but still...) and PAM-D (Star 48) was quite widely used on both Shuttle and Delta rockets.

[NathanKell]

Hey, Vanguard 1 is still in orbit. Can't say that for many early sats. The failure rate of Vanguard was nothing to write home about, but it's still a darn sight better than, say, Atlas-Able. (Or the whole early Pioneer and Ranger programs...)

[The Destroyer]

Sorry for long wait for reply, the forums went down (503) the second I posted, so I assumed the post didn't get through, and then forgot

Anyway, I have no suggestions other than making the texture a little less... bright.

[Guest]

The brightness seems to be a result of a total lack of lighting in the renders. With lighting, it should look right.

[CluelessModeler]

There's 8 point lights in those scenes, I'll play with the diffuse and lower the specular a bit to see what I can change in there.

[Guest]

Just leave one, medium intensity light in there, I think 8 is somewhat excessive. Or heck, just try this in-game. Lit from the sun, it'll probably look good. Just make sure to have proper smoothing set up (edgesplit modifier in Blender), the Atlas you posted on Sketchfab is missing this (though maybe it was Sketchfab that broke it).