Orbiter veterans....

[Fail-o-matic]

Those that have played Orbiter, is something with the capabilities of IMFD possible in KSP? Mostly the planning, and especially the planet approach and base sync?

[diomedea]

Concur wholeheartly. Jarmonik's IMFD to me is the best planning tool in Orbiter. In particular, the ability to plan exactly where to land on a body (Basesync) is something my poor Kerbs miss entirely.

As I see mods already exist in KSP with the ability to access and display any of the relevant values, I am sure some gifted modder will eventually develop something similar (not me, I can only use such features, not develop them). Anyway, I would like to see all the planning rendered on the map exactly as Squad made for KSP, instead of in a "dedicated MFD" as in the Orbiter approach.

[el_coyoto]

Concur wholeheartly. Jarmonik's IMFD to me is the best planning tool in Orbiter. In particular, the ability to plan exactly where to land on a body (Basesync) is something my poor Kerbs miss entirely.

As I see mods already exist in KSP with the ability to access and display any of the relevant values, I am sure some gifted modder will eventually develop something similar (not me, I can only use such features, not develop them). Anyway, I would like to see all the planning rendered on the map exactly as Squad made for KSP, instead of in a "dedicated MFD" as in the Orbiter approach.

I also missed MFDs from Orbiter and their fancy look when I started playing KSP, but quickly stop worrying about that because of the "toony" feel of KSP.

I do agree that the current solution for modders to display their data is less than ideal, and kinda visually clashes with the UI as designed by SQUAD.

MechJeb does a good job at predicting your landing point, taking the atmosphere and body rotation into account and displays a visual indicator on the map view. But it does add several ugly panels to the GUI though. It also lets you edit maneuver nodes with numerical values, but this is nowhere like any Orbiter MFD.

Nor is Protractor, although it can help with long term mission planning while in-game. But I personally use this site for mission planning even if its outside of the game, because it has nice porkchop plots and plenty of yummy numbers...

Mihara is working on a very promising solution do display stuff on pseudo-MFDs while in IVA view, which in my opinion, is more streamlined in the GUI approach : RasterPropMonitor.

At some point, I had also seen people messing around with a mod (can't find it any more ) which displayed data in flight view with some kind of transparent panels attached to the craft and the data printed on it. But as I'm not seeing any screenshots featuring this any more, I suppose it doesn't work with 0.22.

Still, if you like numbers as much as I do, you might also look at Kerbal Engineer.

But basically, I agree with you : Orbiter and KSP have different aesthetics and game design goals, and therefore should probably not use the same metaphors of interaction. Or, maybe this could be implemented in career mode, where you start with capsules with basic analogue gauges and, later, you can unlock new cockpits with more and more advanced MFDs to marvel at while in IVA view (and requiring more and more electricity, but I digress).

The best of both worlds...

[phuzz]

MechJeb can allow you to pick a spot on a planet/moon and will either attempt to land there itself, or can give you a plan and a prediction. It can also create manoeuvre nodes for you (and execute them if you wish) for handy tasks like making a trip to another planet, or returning from a moon.

Some people consider it cheating, some won't fly without it. Either way, you can use it just for the information it can provide, you can get it to plot courses for you, or you can let it do the flying as well. All up to you.

Note that in career mode various functions are unlocked as you move through the tech tree.

[diomedea]

Thanks el-coyoto and phuzz for the amount of good suggestions. I certainly have to learn more on using Mechjeb. I see it has land guidance but I can't find how to have it display where and how to make the correct burns for re-entry at the specified coordinates (how's that, almost no tool here @ KSP comes with a manual on how to use... they all made for rocket scientists? No manual for kerbonauts-like people?). I would also like a tool, as it was with (IMFD) Basesync, to show you a list of nodes where the orbit matches with a possible descent path to the chosen spot on the body surfacce. Still learning. I will also have a look at the Kerbal Engineer (just for numbers), that might do the trick.

Anyway, I was fascinated (as a Orbiter user) by the crisp and clear way the map-view in KSP provides orbital info and node planning. Would like to see something similar with a landing planning tool, hope Squad will provide something in a future version, if no modders are able to improve the map navigation before (I have not found yet any mod able to tweak the map display in KSP).

[el_coyoto]

Thanks el-coyoto and phuzz for the amount of good suggestions. I certainly have to learn more on using Mechjeb. I see it has land guidance but I can't find how to have it display where and how to make the correct burns for re-entry at the specified coordinates (how's that, almost no tool here @ KSP comes with a manual on how to use... they all made for rocket scientists? No manual for kerbonauts-like people?). I would also like a tool, as it was with (IMFD) Basesync, to show you a list of nodes where the orbit matches with a possible descent path to the chosen spot on the body surfacce. Still learning. I will also have a look at the Kerbal Engineer (just for numbers), that might do the trick.

Anyway, I was fascinated (as a Orbiter user) by the crisp and clear way the map-view in KSP provides orbital info and node planning. Would like to see something similar with a landing planning tool, hope Squad will provide something in a future version, if no modders are able to improve the map navigation before (I have not found yet any mod able to tweak the map display in KSP).

MechJeb pinpoint landing procedure :

1. While in orbit, open "Landing guidance", input LZ GPS coordinates (or click "Target KSC") -> red marker appears, check "Landing predictions"

2. Add a maneuver node planning you retrograde burn

3. Tweak prograde/retrograde (and normal if needed) of the maneuver node : landing predictions will be updated according to your predicted burn. You can use the position of the blue marker (predicted landing point) or check the values displayed in the GUI.

4. Burn according to your maneuver node

5. Remove the maneuver node if needed : landing predictions are now based on your trajectory, finely tweak if the retro burn was not precise enough.

2 things :

- I've never managed to get the fully automatic landing procedure to work somewhere else there in Kerbin LKO (but that was a long time ago, might have been corrected).

- It does not take into account a variable lift/drag ratio : it will work fine with a capsule, but will have trouble with a spaceplane changing its attitude to generate more or less lift (like the awesome Aerobrake MFD used to).

The other features are documented on the MechJeb wiki.

And I have to agree : the "natural" and clear GUI of KSP is a refreshing change from Orbiter, I felt exactly the same when I started KSP : so much air, and light!

Hope this helped a fellow Orbiter-o-naut!

[diomedea]

@ el-coyoto: your help with MJ is outstanding (sorry if this has derailed a bit from the thread title..., still I find it relevant to the OP initial question). I was unable to find any instruction with the functionality you described (the MJ wiki is blank on this and other things), and was lost while MJ showed no plan after giving land coordinates (I expected a plan to be calculated, as in Basesync). I now see the blue marker with the manouever as I plan for the burn myself, so it is possible to match it with the red marker...by hand. Very different from the way navigation tools work in Orbiter.

I tried by letting MJ do the autoburn on Mun, never successful (up to now). I am checking often about MJ developments, know other issues are being corrected therefore this problem will probably get solved as well.

Again, many thanks (from a fellow Orbiteer).

[diomedea]

@ el-coyoto: your help with MJ is outstanding (sorry if this has derailed a bit from the thread title..., still I find it relevant to the OP initial question). I was unable to find any instruction with the functionality you described (the MJ wiki is blank on this and other things), and was lost while MJ showed no plan after giving land coordinates (I expected a plan to be calculated, as in Basesync). I now see the blue marker with the manouever as I plan for the burn myself, so it is possible to match it with the red marker...by hand. Very different from the way navigation tools work in Orbiter.

I tried by letting MJ do the autoburn on Mun, never successful (up to now). I am checking often about MJ developments, know other issues are being corrected therefore this problem will probably get solved as well.

Again, many thanks (from a fellow Orbiteer).

[nadreck]

... how's that, almost no tool here @ KSP comes with a manual on how to use... they all made for rocket scientists? No manual for kerbonauts-like people?...

Not rocket scientists, engineers! In my experience scientists can and do read(talk to any about peer review work), on the other hand an attitude I found common among engineers was that manuals got thrown out with the packaging and wrapping - and anything that they couldn't figure out how to work, coax or kick into working was either "designed wrong" or "came broken".

[diomedea]

@ nadreck: you're right, LOL.

IRL I worked closely with engineers and my course of study is almost the same, so I reckon the truth in your words. Any manual shipped with any kind of hardware was, by default, "designed for beginners only". No true engineer was to use the manual, until after the hundredth time they couldn't find how to properly activate the thing, a poor low-level technician unpacked and started reading it, suggesting the most obvious solution...