[0.23.5] Realism Overhaul: ROv5.2 + Modlist for RSS 6/30/14

[RaccoonTOF]

Woopert, I've got a full package of mods for RSS/RO that will give what you need to assemble all of the various SLS options, minus the payloads (those are handled by others with the Taurus pod, the ICPS mod, ESA pack for the ATV-based SM, etc. and a few other options). It covers all of the new ARM parts, as well as the parts you need to make all 3 of the currently proposed booster options. I've also tweaked a few of the RealEngines aside from that - like for those that want to use proper thrusters for the Orion SM (repurposed/respecced one of the many 1kN engines in the RE pack) and alternative configs for some RCS modules. I'm about to do a full fresh install of the required RO mods, required mod packs for the various base engines, and the "latest" RealEngines, to ensure that my modded parts and the corrections to RealEngines that I've made will work on a totally fresh install and that I've not missed anything, and then I'll be sending it to Nathan for distribution/testing as desired - it's still not totally polished, and I expect there will be some problems that I've not gotten to test out yet, but I'm going to be away on a sailboat delivery for the next couple weeks so I wanted to get at least something out there before I took off

[NathanKell]

Woopert: You'll want to create a custom TANK_DEFINITION with a lower basemass and/or lower masses for the propellants used.

However, make sure that your entire core is in fact light; I have set RF tank mass to account for some of the mass of other components (guidance, interstage, ducting, etc) so while the tanks themselves will be heavier per m^3, the stage should be ok (I hope).

It has nothing to do with Stretchy or PP since RF sets the mass of parts itself.

RaccoonTOF: awesome!

I would suggest dropping RedAV8R a line, since he's also been working on SLS stuff (although in that case the payload and DCSS, not the launcher).

[mar117117]

i am having problems with remote tech. i seem to be able to comunicate interplanetary with reflectrons, basically. any ideas?

[RaccoonTOF]

I'm not really touching the DCSS/ICPS/SM stuff except for a couple engine tweaks as mentioned above, just to ensure that the total vehicle delta-V numbers match up with those projected for the real life options - just enough to allow me to test the core/boosters really. And even those tweaks should really be part of a dedicated upper stage/payload package, since in a couple of cases I had to overwrite engines that people might want to use for other things (except for the dual-nozzle 1kN engine, which already has the exact same stats in the base RealEngines package as 2 other engines ). So as long as his tweaks keep them to the real-life performance specs/total weight, and the proper outer diameter, they should play nicely together without any issues

Unfortunately, after doing the fresh install with all the currently latest versions of things again, something broke I'm suspecting that it is the latest version of MM that broke things again, but haven't tracked down the issues yet. So...a bit of a delay again...

[RedAV8R]

I'm not really touching the DCSS/ICPS/SM stuff except for a couple engine tweaks as mentioned above, just to ensure that the total vehicle delta-V numbers match up with those projected for the real life options - just enough to allow me to test the core/boosters really. And even those tweaks should really be part of a dedicated upper stage/payload package, since in a couple of cases I had to overwrite engines that people might want to use for other things (except for the dual-nozzle 1kN engine, which already has the exact same stats in the base RealEngines package as 2 other engines ). So as long as his tweaks keep them to the real-life performance specs/total weight, and the proper outer diameter, they should play nicely together without any issues

Unfortunately, after doing the fresh install with all the currently latest versions of things again, something broke I'm suspecting that it is the latest version of MM that broke things again, but haven't tracked down the issues yet. So...a bit of a delay again...

OR we could actually collaborate together instead of you working on your own since the goal is the same, there is no need to have your tweaks influence mine or mine influence yours.

[Semmel]

Finally, the forums are back online.. I was wondering if the SCANsat mod could work in RSS? Nathan, did you give this mod a thought before? Is it even possible, given that the mod creates maps of planets and these maps are different due to the real solar system..

Cheers,

Semmel

[NathanKell]

technogeeky said they'll get it working better. (And SCANSat does actual mapping, it doesn't reveal some kind of premade map, so it does work, the issue is just it takes forever).

[xandalis]

I've run into an odd problem, seemingly out of the blue, while running RO&RSS: stock manned pods have a 407m/s lateral velocity, while sitting still on the pad. No clue what's causing this, but it happens every time I try to use one, since it first began. I've tried a clean re-install of all the required mods, and any of the associated patches/config tweaks. Should I go through starting with just stock+RSS and build up until it happens, or has anyone else encountered this and knows what the likely fix is?

Edit: Found the problem. I'd installed TweakableEverything, and hadn't been trying to use the parts it seems to break until yesterday or so. Yay! Now I can get back to trying to get anything substantial into orbit...

Edited May 30, 2014 by xandalis
fixed the issue

[Lord Aurelius]

I found an interesting issue with Dres/Saturn. I built a heat-shielded probe to drop into the atmosphere and it descends normally down to about 300k-200k at which point its velocity abruptly goes past 0 and the probe starts accelerating again in the opposite direction until it eventually burns up when it hits over 9km/s in the opposite direction of the original entry path. I've had this happen to several different probes and they all start accelerating backwards at about the same point.

I successfully landed a probe on Minmus/Uranus (which is similar in the fact that it is a very well stretched planetoid), but in that case there isn't really any atmosphere to speak of so it was just a matter of riding a very large fuel tank most of the way down to the surface.

[NathanKell]

xandalis: Upload your output log (NOT ksp.log) to dropbox or something.

Windows: KSP_win\KSP_Data\output_log.txt

Mac OSX: Open Console, on the left side of the window there is a menu that says 'files'. Scroll down the list and find the Unity drop down, under Unity there will be Player.log Aka Files>~/Library/Logs>Unity>Player.log

Linux: ~/.config/unity3d/Squad/Kerbal\ Space\ Program/Player.log

Lord Aurelius: huh. That's weird. I'd suggest taking this convo to the RSS thread, since this is for Realism Overhaul (which patches parts) not RSS. No idea at this point, but if you ask over there maybe someone can confirm?

[Jobin]

Honestly, every time I come back hoping RSS won't be an absolute nightmare to get working I'm disappointed. You all need to cooperate and just release one zip file with everything I need to get working. Having so many separate dependencies and bad instructions just ruins it for me. Either that, or someone who has it working needs to release a full download somewhere else. I got RSS working ONCE in 0.22 and never again. This is more complicated than Solidworks. I might as well go model a Saturn V in there, it would take me less effort than it would tot get this working.

[frisch]

Jobin, I sort of agree. The realism stuff is FANTASTIC, really, but it takes so long to get a configuration together that works. Things load so slowly that its hard to know if a particular configuration has crashed or not. How can it possibly take 10s of minutes to load on a modern computer?

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the work that was done, but agree that cooperation to produce singe zip files of working gamedata configs woudl be nice.

[Reign Of Magic]

I have a few quick questions:

First: For the realism overhaul what should I set the volumetric clouds for height. Standard they are at 4k. I bumped them up to 13k, because that seemed to be the max height for clouds here on Earth. Does anyone have any suggestions or know how to add in other layers?

Second: Kerbal Materials Corp. Any idea what mod that is from, and what I should change the amount of power they generate to (solar panels generate crazy power in relation to everything else they are called: Single solar panel Pane, and Standard Solar panel array)

Third: I have everything uploaded to dropbox (I have a laptop I play KSP on as well), is it ok to post a link to it, assuming everything I did is kosher? Here is the modlist txt file just to make sure I didn't miss a major mod or anything. https://www.dropbox.com/s/emzy56i8pw1ctxf/list.txt

Assuming I didn't miss anything I should have everything installed, and it seems to run just fine for me, although I am no expert.

Fourth: How do I go about changing which space center I launch from (Kenedy in Florida and "Centre Spatial Guyannis")

----Turns out one of the mods I have installed will let you change which space center to launch from (there is around 10 in the options) from the tracking station. SO the next question is does anyone have a remote-tech file with all of these space centers added for Ground stations or know how to edit them in?

Fifth: Procedural Fairings seems to be broken, there is only one attachment node, and if I add symmetry it goes to 8x all on that one node. Note I am using version 3.02

---Fixed. Turns out one of the mods installed the 2.4 version of procedural fairings, took that out and it works

------Question Update: How do you go about changing where you unlock the fairing base, currently using the RPL tweaks you unlock the .65 meter base initially (the 0 cost nodes) but, you don't unlock the fairing base (required to use Proc Fairings) until Control Systems teir 2. This isn't too big of an issue because you only need like 40 science to unlock the nodes to it. Just odd that the part unlocks are not together (at least for the base bits)

Edited June 2, 2014 by Reign Of Magic
Updated 2,4 and 5 questions.

[Semmel]

SCANSat does actual mapping, it doesn't reveal some kind of premade map, so it does work, the issue is just it takes forever.

Huh? Well, than we need to see if the cameras can see larger segments of the planets..

[RedAV8R]

Jobin & frisch: Sorry you feel this way. Will say, this is the RO thread, not RSS. Sure downloading everything can take time, then somebody updates something, which requires somebody else to update theirs etc. It's a never ending battle to stay completely up to date.

Absolutely cooperation would be an awesome thing in unicorn land. There is a program out there, not working, but being updated last I heard which 'bundles' everything together. The problem is everybody has their rights to their own stuff, so unless a person aquires permission from everybody involved, releasing a bundle on their own would be grounds for legal action. Same reason you don't see some 3rd party bundle in one box Windows, Office, Acrobat, and AutoDesk.

Tell you what, if you'd like, I'll send you a PM with a list including links of everything you need basic to get started and we can go from there.

Edited May 30, 2014 by RedAV8R

[SpacedInvader]

@RedAV8R: Found a typo in the Apollo CSM config. You had the heatshield pointing to a part named Apollo_CM_HeatShield when it should be FASAApollo_CM_HeatShield, resulting in the mod not being applied to that particular part.

EDIT: As for the realism stuff, there really isn't that much to it. All you need is the 9 mods listed under required in the OP. Everything else is optional, but when you really boil it down, there are those 9, some parts packs, RPL, RT2, and TACLS. Most of those authors have worked together, so its really just a matter of downloading the various mods and then you're done...

Edited May 31, 2014 by SpacedInvader

[RedAV8R]

@RedAV8R: Found a typo in the Apollo CSM config. You had the heatshield pointing to a part named Apollo_CM_HeatShield when it should be FASAApollo_CM_HeatShield, resulting in the mod not being applied to that particular part.

Not a typo. At least it wasn't when this version of RO was released. Back then the FASA part had yet to be renamed so it wouldn't conflict with the OLDD download. You just using what is included in the RO download, and you haven't updated my packs via my own thread HERE.

[RedAV8R]

As for the realism stuff, there really isn't that much to it. All you need is the 9 mods listed under required in the OP. Everything else is optional, but when you really boil it down, there are those 9, some parts packs, RPL, RT2, and TACLS. Most of those authors have worked together, so its really just a matter of downloading the various mods and then you're done...

To you and I 9 + downloads isn't much, and there is cooperation, some people just don't have the skills, know how, and/or patience to even do that. Some people have to be spoon fed everything in order to be happy. They forget the biggest factor in that KSP is at v ZERO point 23.5, and mods continually being updated, new features, etc to bring the experience up to what it could be when eventually the final product comes around.

[SpacedInvader]

Ok, this may be a stupid-ish question, but are the OLDD and FASA versions of this both necessary for building an Apollo mission, or are they mutually exclusive?

[RedAV8R]

Well...Not entirely stupid question. Here is the scoop. FASA's Apollo CSM and LEM are actually OLDD (DennyTX) models, at some point they have maybe been retextured and/or older version models than what is currently included with OLDD (that part I'm actually not to sure, but is irrelevant). Frizzank then modeled his own Saturn V and IB for FASA, DennyTX also modeled his own Saturn V as well with the OLDD pack. The CSM and LEM are newer/better versions (IMO) than what is in the FASA pack as well...When it comes to the Saturn V each has their own strengths and weaknesses. Due to the modelling by Frizzank, I was actually able to get scaling to RL better than some of the OLDD models, configs should be near identical though...If your computer can handle it, I'd recommend both, try them out, and see what you like, you can always delete parts of either pack you don't like and keep the rest.

[SpacedInvader]

Not going to jump straight into calling this one an error, but with your configs installed, the node position for the LEM deployment device is such that the plate is only a few inches from the bottom of the engine bell. This holds true for both OLDD and FASA. Is there some trick I'm missing?

[RedAV8R]

First question is have you installed the latest configs available on my thread. If you haven't, then the answer is get the latest configs. If you have, then the best way to build the stack is:

In OLDD

Build the LEM.

Save the LEM as a subassembly. The key, there is a node in the middle of the ascent stage. This is the attachment point to the deployment device.

Build the CSM.

Place the SLA. The top node of the SLA is 1m above the SM body/engine junction, you can't see it, but it's there.

Deploy the panels so you can see.

For ease, place the Instrument unit and even the SIVB if you want.

Place the LEM deployment device, there is still a node then right at the top of the junction of the SLA panels. That little red barrel on the side poking out of the SLA should right above the Instrument Unit.

Now pull the LEM from the sub-assembly and attach to the node showing within the SLA with the node in the middle of the ascent engine.

Procedure for FASA is very similar:

Build the LEM - same as OLDD

Save the LEM - same as OLDD

Build the CSM - same as OLDD

Place the base of the SLA - its a new part because the SLA base that Frizz did had some structural components blocked parts.

Place the IU and the S-IVB

Place the LEM deployment device - again there is a node at the top of the SLA base that corresponds with the deployment device, putting the barrel right above the IU.

Place the LEM from the sub-assembly. Again, same node in the same spots as OLDD.

Install the 4 panels of the SLA.

Edited June 1, 2014 by RedAV8R

[SpacedInvader]

First question is have you installed the latest configs available on my thread. If you haven't, then the answer is get the latest configs. If you have, then the best way to build the stack is:

In OLDD

Build the LEM.

Save the LEM as a subassembly. The key, there is a node in the middle of the ascent stage. This is the attachment point to the deployment device.

Build the CSM.

Place the SLA. The top node of the SLA is 1m above the SM body/engine junction, you can't see it, but it's there.

Deploy the panels so you can see.

For ease, place the Instrument unit and even the SIVB if you want.

Place the LEM deployment device, there is still a node then right at the top of the junction of the SLA panels. That little red barrel on the side poking out of the SLA should right above the Instrument Unit.

Now pull the LEM from the sub-assembly and attach to the node showing within the SLA with the node in the middle of the ascent engine.

Procedure for FASA is very similar:

Build the LEM - same as OLDD

Save the LEM - same as OLDD

Build the CSM - same as OLDD

Place the base of the SLA - its a new part because the SLA base that Frizz did had some structural components blocked parts.

Place the IU and the S-IVB

Place the LEM deployment device - again there is a node at the top of the SLA base that corresponds with the deployment device, putting the barrel right above the IU.

Place the LEM from the sub-assembly. Again, same node in the same spots as OLDD.

Install the 4 panels of the SLA.

Ok, so I got the OLDD version to work, turns out I was trying to attach the top node of the LEM deployment device to the the bottom of the SPS (a la proc fairings interstage) which left no room at all in between for the LEM. As for FASA, I have the newest version, and I have the configs you linked a page or two back, but for the life of me, I can't find the SLA anywhere.

EDIT: I have the walls, just not the base.

EDIT2: Nevermind, I found it, was just filtering it out by only looking for FASA in partcatalog...

Edited June 1, 2014 by SpacedInvader

[RedAV8R]

Good deal. Thank you though for you help, this is the feedback I need in order to ensure it's all as it should be.

[SpacedInvader]

Good deal. Thank you though for you help, this is the feedback I need in order to ensure it's all as it should be.

Glad I could help, even if it was by fumbling around. Now a new question however... It seems that the FASA Saturn is configured only for modular fuel tanks and not real fuels. Is this the case, or am I doing something wrong again?

EDIT: Seems that both are giving me this trouble. When I try to enter the fuel dialog in the action group mode, I'm greeted with the message "This fuel tank cannot hold resources"

Edited June 1, 2014 by SpacedInvader