[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[taniwha]

GokouZWAR: sadly, you are dealing with stock bugs, nothing I can do about those However, I do have a suggestion to try: whenever possible, avoid direct contact between your base and the ground. This means using either landing legs or launch clamps (yes, they can be used on Eve (tested on Mun and Minmus in 0.90)). Landing legs "give" a bit and can absorb that flex, and launch clamps get welded to the world (for better or worse).

[GokouZWAR]

You haven't seen the base...

It's entirely on landing legs except for two parts that come down near the ground on one point but I built them high enough to not be in contact with the ground but reachable by kerbals so they could plug in vehicles to the pylons. The only other part that came near the ground is the recycle bin at one end of the station. I knew that spot might be a point of failure and it would fall off but ironically that wasn't the part that was blowing up upon loading. It was both the hitchhiker modules that would blow up on the other end of it past the root node of the base. But to boot when they blew up the game recognized the destruction but then also it didn't. The stuff attached to them were still attached but whenever I moved away from it and came back (like going to the space center) then the base didn't load because of unknown parts errors...

My original base was in direct contact and I had a huge bounce whenever the game loaded and/or it came out of time warp so that's when I added landing struts as the "stand". It worked great on minmus but the same design on eve was epic failure. Probably due to higher gravity and thicker atmo... I thought maybe it was because the base was on a slight hill so I drove nearly 41km to find a flatter spot and I did and that spot was even worse than the first spot (that's where the kerbal was sucked into eve).

I figured it was a stock bug because I knew your mod didn't simulate the flexing but I don't know how or when they'll fix it (or if they plan to fix it.) Technically you're not supposed to be able to build a base the size I have on the ground since there'd be no way to land it safely. Not in one piece I'm sure. Which means you'd have to connect the pieces with docking ports or something I imagine.

I guess I need a new method of building ground bases where I don't have to build it as one single piece. My original minmus base had the KAS fuel ports on it but every time I time warped using those connected together the same problem happened. There was huge bouncing going on and if you time warp with things attached together with pipes while they're in mid-bounce then the docking ports "slide off" and make it impossible to remove them. They somehow become to root of that part of the vehicle instead of being something that's surface attached. It keeps saying that something is attached to it and you can't unattach it. :/

The launch clamps I hadn't thought of but I may give that a shot to see if it helps. Those would keep the base level I'll bet but the sheer size of the base itself may be a problem because it'll take so many of them to keep it in the air without flexing.

The second problem will be getting into a base in the air on launch clamps. I'm hoping ladders will attach to those. I've never tried.

Heaven forbid you accidentally hit space while in the base lol...

[taniwha]

Ah, a shame legs don't help.

Heaven forbid you accidentally hit space while in the base lol...

Done that (fortunately not too long after a quicksave). The noise is impressive It's a good idea to hit ALT-L to lock staging when working around your base.

Right now, launchclamps are a little buggy (I have finally been able to build my test frame). As for attaching ladders to the sides of the clamps: I doubt you can (or should) in the editor, but you might be able to with via KIS (I'll let you know once I've gotten these bugs ironed out). If not, you can always build something with lots of truss segments to which you can attach ladders.

[taniwha]

GokouZWAR: Good news: I've got launch clamps working properly (ie, both at KSC and at a build site), and you can attach things to the sides of a launch clamp.

[GokouZWAR]

Well that's good news. In my situation tho I think it would be difficult since the part count would be so incredibly high with those clamps. At least I'll have an alternative though.

Do we know if the flexing bug is being addressed by squad or is this something we need to report to them for their next releases?

[cy-one]

Quick question, as the first post didn't say anything about that:

How does "gathering resources" + "build ship" work together with "buy parts" in career?

When you launch/build something on the launch pad, you have to pay the full price of all parts. How does that work, wen you actually mined all resources yourself?

Are there reduced cost in place? No cost at all? How's that handled?

[taniwha]

cy-one: If you mine and process all of the resources yourself, then funds do not enter the equation at all. However, as everything takes time, and kerbals are required to do the building, various mods can add related costs (life support, wages, etc). Or just hiring sufficient kerbals in the first place.

[Pure_Diamond]

Are there any plans to integrate this mod with the new stock resource system?

[taniwha]

Pure_Diamond: already done in 5.1.90, with a raise: it works transparently with both stock and Kethane, with infrastructure to integrate any other resource system (for gathering). All resource conversions are done via custom implementations of the stock system.

[RiftandRend]

I can't seem to bring up the build menu.

[taniwha]

RiftandRend: I can't seem to find any useful information in your post.

[GokouZWAR]

Anyone tested with 1.0.4 to see if this mod still works as is or will we need an update?

[taniwha]

GokouZWAR: Even I haven't tested yet: I've been busy in blender gettting the launchpad2 to not jitter. I had it done last night, but "parent inverse transform" bit me hard: everything looks good in blender, but in-game the pad looks like some abominable flower (but does not jitter:))

[RiftandRend]

When I click on a launchpad, the buttons it can press are "Hide UI" and "Rename". The issue is, the build UI is not visible, and clicking the "Hide UI" button does not cause one to appear. I am running KSP 1.0.3, and have Toolbar and Module manager installed. If any further information is required, tell me.

Edited June 25, 2015 by RiftandRend

[taniwha]

RiftandRend: That is useful information (especially the KSP version) . it sounds like something in EL is not compatible with 1.0.3. Please zip up your KSP.log and upload it somewhere I can grab it. I haven't had time to update KSP from 1.0.2 yet.

[GokouZWAR]

GokouZWAR: Even I haven't tested yet: I've been busy in blender gettting the launchpad2 to not jitter. I had it done last night, but "parent inverse transform" bit me hard: everything looks good in blender, but in-game the pad looks like some abominable flower (but does not jitter:))

As far as i can tell it works. I tested it yesterday on the stream. I haven't built anything yet tho, but I tried. The UIs came up but I didn't have minimum requirements to build anything so i couldn't build anything. I'll be streaming here for a few hours so we'll see if I get the chance here to build it and test it. I'm working in career mode and didn't have enough money to build a workshop. After i get back from minmus on my science mission i should have it tho.

[taniwha]

I have released version 5.2.0 of EL. Links in the first post.

Changes from 5.1.95:

• Do not add a highlighter if one is already there. This fixes the missing highlights on the stakes.
  
• Plug a potential NRE hole in the target module.
  
• Do some renovations to launchpad2.
  
  • UVs on the fuel tanks fixed.
    
  • All deck plates now have colliders.
    
  • fuel tank/engine support is two parts (upper slides) instead of one that stretches.
    
  • Reanimated to ensure colliders don't collide with each other. This should eliminate the twitching pad.
    

  [*]Enable the launch clamp extension only when building. They now work correctly both at KSC and at a build site.

One issue with the launchpad2 is if you leave a kerbal standing on the pad and come back, the kerbal will be unable to stand. Quickly closing the pad and opening it again (even before things start moving) fixes it.

[mkrco]

Question, I'm using EPL and the EPL part hider for stock ISRU installed from CKAN. It seems to have gotten rid of the old recycle bin. It's removed in the part hider .cfg. I was wondering if there is another part that I'm not seeing which replaces the functionality of the recycle bin?

[taniwha]

The only parts that do recycling in EL are the two recycling bins.

[vardicd]

I have a question, I'm using EPL, with RoverDude's MKS/OKS mod, and I know I need the plug in, mallet and survey stakes, but is the EL_MM config file needed as well? I only ask, because it seems to generate an extra hitchhiker pod as a survey station, which I never use, nor do I know what it's for, and I'd like to be rid of the thing, as I'm forever grabbing it, when I mean to use the standard hitchhiker.

[Zeenobit]

Thanks for the awesome mod. I'm using this with MKS/OKS.

One question I have though, is whether or not I can disable the construction time for building vessels. Basically, as long as I have the required resources, I want the rockets to be built instantly.

[rabidninjawombat]

Thanks for the awesome mod. I'm using this with MKS/OKS.

One question I have though, is whether or not I can disable the construction time for building vessels. Basically, as long as I have the required resources, I want the rockets to be built instantly.

I don't believe there is a way to do this within the settings, though you can use ModuleManager to give whatever pod or launchpad your building with an insane amount of Productivity (which will in turn build it pretty much instantly)

[taniwha]

vardicd: EL_MM.cfg also makes the normal hitchhiker can, the science lab, and all command pods (even from random mods, unless they already are a workshop) into low-grade workshops. On top of that, it makes the launch clamps usable and, most importantly, it adds the construction skill to engineers.

Deleting the file would do bad things to your game. Instead, edit the file to remove the block of code that creats the survey station (lines 32 to 45 in current release). Just in case, here are the lines to delete:

+PART[crewCabin]:AFTER[Launchpad]
{
    @name = ExSurveyStation
    @title = EL Survey Station
    @description = Build things at surveyed sites.
    MODULE {
        name = ExSurveyStation
    }
}
// Do this separately, so that the part still exists if somebody uninstalls KIS
@PART[ExSurveyStation]:AFTER[Launchpad]:NEEDS[!KIS] {
    @TechRequired = Unresearchable
    @category = none
}

Zeenobit: insta-build got removed for both code maintenance and game-play reasons. I never used it and thus almost never tested it, thus it would be the source of embarrassing bugs. As for the game-play, timed builds give more reason to have kerbals. At first, only engineers (and relatively smart ones at that) are useful, but at a high enough level, even the dumbest engineer is productive, and a very high level engineer can make even scientists and pilots productive (so long as the scientists and pilots are relatively smart).

Edited June 27, 2015 by taniwha

[vardicd]

Thank you!

[Zeenobit]

Zeenobit: insta-build got removed for both code maintenance and game-play reasons. I never used it and thus almost never tested it, thus it would be the source of embarrassing bugs. As for the game-play, timed builds give more reason to have kerbals. At first, only engineers (and relatively smart ones at that) are useful, but at a high enough level, even the dumbest engineer is productive, and a very high level engineer can make even scientists and pilots productive (so long as the scientists and pilots are relatively smart).

That's fair. My issue with timed builds is that the process of setting up an extra-planetary launch pad is incredibly difficult, yet rewarding in of itself. Having to set up a base, carry all the initial "seed" resources, create the resource chain, etc etc, takes a lot of time and provides a lot of fun. The extra time required to build rockets is just unnecessary, in my opinion and reduces the fun in favour of realism.

If you're concerned about needing Kerbals, which is very valid and a point I like, then why not optionally make it so that you need X number of Engineers, Scientists and Pilots to insta-build rockets at full efficiency? If the player has less than those numbers, then the rockets would cost more to build, but it wouldn't affect the construction time. You could even take Stupidity into consideration for this. Think of it like this: The stupid, unskilled Kerbals are more likely to waste resources in the Kerbal trial-and-error brand of engineering building the same rocket compared to specialists and smarter Kerbals with more experience.