I have a dilemma about using a mod

[Liowen]

I have been practicing docking for awhile now with some success with training ships, but a lot of failures with bigger ones. While I do have Mechjeb downloaded I only used it to learn how to setup for planet changes (now I just protractor you help line up the planets and do the nodes by hand). After smashing my lander into the tug too many times to count I decided to put Mechjeb on both and see if maybe there was an error, and there was.... me.

This brings up my dilemma; while I dislike using a mod to do things for me I feel this is not as big of a deal as setting up and flying to a moon or planet and letting it land for you. I would still be doing a majority of the work myself and using this to assist myself to dock the ship. But I also wanted others feedback on this as well.

[Gamercraft_GC]

Idk what part your having trouble on, the Docking or GETTING to the ship. When i first tried docking I had trouble getting to the ship and 1 time SMASHED into it. But Try looking up Scott Manleys tutorials. And Mods are okay to have, even MechJeb because During most of the Apollo Missions, it was a Bot Doing the launches and steering of the rocket. Not Neil Armstrong (Except the moon landing). Hope i helped

[blizzy78]

I have made in-game tutorial plugins for both rendezvous and docking. Perhaps you might want to give them a try. (see signature)

[Liowen]

Idk what part your having trouble on, the Docking or GETTING to the ship. When i first tried docking I had trouble getting to the ship and 1 time SMASHED into it. But Try looking up Scott Manleys tutorials. And Mods are okay to have, even MechJeb because During most of the Apollo Missions, it was a Bot Doing the launches and steering of the rocket. Not Neil Armstrong (Except the moon landing). Hope i helped

Well my current setup has the lander docked on top of tug on the launch pad, after my Kraken attack last night I decided I would try and dock it nose to nose with the tug. My main issue with docking is trying to find a camera angle that is good, but having a X,Y,Z to worry about it is a bit harder to do than say backing up a trailer. I did learn to set focus on the port and control from the port of the vessel you are driving, but even then I am seeming off either too high or off to one of the side while the pink node says I am on target.

I was trying to recall if Apollo used a autopilot for the docking of the lander to the Lm and the command module, if so then my reasoning is justified and dilemma averted. I will learn to dock it on my own it will just take time is all. You did help me as I didn't know Apollo used remotes like that to be honest.

[User Unrelated]

I know what you mean about having trouble lining up X Y, and Z axes...

I've gotten pretty good at docking... and by that, I mean that I no longer slam ships into each other at 12m/s...

it still takes me a while.

There's a station that I have that is in the wrong configuration, and I can't seem to re-configure it with the amount of monoprop left (quicksaves, yeah)

so I will need to refill it...

but I found a mod last night, called "hullcam", that I am going to try for docking.

Stick a cam on the docking port, and it'd be like an IVA view of sticking your head out the docking port, which would be excellent for keeping track of all 3 dimensions at once.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/46365-0-21-Hullcam-VDS-Mechjeb-hullcam-fork-Updated-15-Sep

I haven't looked into it enough to know if it still has all the HUD available, but it'd be a nifty thing to try.

I absolutely refuse to use mechjeb for any reason. I find fun in coming up with things on the fly.

Like my recent mission to Jool... I wanted to dive in, aerobrake, and land on Laythe (with a probe)

but instead, I ended up aerobraking ON laythe, and then getting fly-bys of all of the moons, except bop... and THEN landing on Laythe!

That sort of luck can only come from human error hahaha

[Epthelyn]

I was trying to recall if Apollo used a autopilot for the docking of the lander to the Lm and the command module, if so then my reasoning is justified and dilemma averted. I will learn to dock it on my own it will just take time is all. You did help me as I didn't know Apollo used remotes like that to be honest.

Even if real life has no autopilots, you can still maintain this mentality. If you're not good at something then it'll come with practice, and chances are that if you spend time doing something else you'll come back and be more successful at docking because you won't be quite so impatient.

That aside, one question: Are you using chase cam? If you're not, then it saves a lot of mind-ache because the RCS keybinds line up with reality.

I do understand the camera angles problem, even if you are in chase cam; it can sometimes look like a craft is going to dock perfectly but is actually 2m away from where it should be. The only solution I've ever come up with for this is to deal with each dimension one at a time, or rather 2 of the dimensions because if you can keep the craft a constant distance from the docking port it saves messing with forward/backward until the end. Targeting docking ports as you have done helps out immensely.

So yeah, if you want to use a mod for the time being, go for it. In fact nobody can ever put you down for using a mod because it's your game and you can do what you like with it. You can come back and master docking at a later date when you feel like trying again, and in the meantime make use of MechJeb for missions which require docking to succeed.

[Gristle]

You could try using the Docking Port Alignment Indicator mod or Romfarers docking cam mods. Both of these are "helper" mods that still require you to do the piloting

[Sid]

I was trying to recall if Apollo used a autopilot for the docking of the lander to the Lm and the command module, if so then my reasoning is justified and dilemma averted.

From the CSM to the LM just after TLI, no. Not an autopilot as such anyway, a kind of auto stabilisation control mode was available.

From the LM upper stage to the CSM there was a rendezvous autopilot, but that only got the LM within a couple of kilometers. Braking and docking were manual.

You could always join the USSR though comrade their spacecraft were capable of docking without any human intervention ( when the system worked )

[benzman]

Once you are within 200 metres of the target use Navyfish's brilliant docking port alignment indicator. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/dock-align-indicator/ It might be a mod, but I am sure it must be similar to what real life astronauts use.

[Sid]

but I am sure it must be similar to what real life astronauts use.

In the Apollo missions they would get range and range rate from the AGC - unlike KSP they also got know if their range rate was positive or negative if any developer is reading this

[Monkeh]

I don't have problems with the actual docking aspect, (I realised that changing between the docking and staging modes allowed me to line up easy enough), it's the rendezvous part I have massive trouble with. I have no problems with using MechJeb except I feel it will take away the fun for me a bit. I enjoy flying things and learning as I do and simply getting an autopilot to do it appears to both remove the challenge, which is a massive part of the fun of KSP for me, and just reduce me to a spectator.

My solution to this dilemma has been to try to work enough delta v into a single launch for the things I want to do. Up until recently that has meant getting to lots of places and not really attempting to get back. This last couple of weeks has seen me change that stance and now getting my little green fellas back is all part of the challenge. So far I've got to the Mun and...ermm, the Mun.

I've now decided that a trip to Minmus is at least as easy so meh, skip that one and go for Duna. I've also decided that I can only use the round and toroidal tanks as well to add to the challenge.

All in all, I'd say just do whatever you feel you WANT to, not what you feel you SHOULD do. Single player game, play it EXACTLY how you find the most fun playing. If learning to dock just sounds like a pain in the ass then don't bother, simples.

Just make sure you're having fun, you got nothing to prove to anyone.

[m1xte]

You are making it too difficult.

Look the NAVBALL forget the camera.

Use BOTH CRAFTS to align.

Docking

Get close (50-100m) kill relative velocity.

NAVBALL shows target relative speed when target is selected with pro/retrograde markers.

Select docking port as target -> Face the target (NAVBALL) ->

Switch craft ->

Select docking port as target -> Face the target (NAVBALL) ->

Now your crafts are magically aligned

I dont bother with RCS anymore

[pizzaoverhead]

You could try using the Docking Port Alignment Indicator mod or Romfarers docking cam mods. Both of these are "helper" mods that still require you to do the piloting

I would also recommend the Navball Docking Alignment Indicator.