[TechTree] [0.23.5] Ackander's Vertical Tech Tree - Release v1.16 - May 13, 2014

[TurielD]

Hey there, I had wanted to give Modular Kolonisation System a try, but the components all appear at once - in a spot too early on the tree - by default.

I have re-organised as follows, in what seems to be a fairly simple and logical set:

Under node4_spaceExploration

name = MKS.ScanOMatic

Under newnode_surfaceHabitation

name = MKS.Kerbitat

name = MKS.ColonyHub

name = MKS.HubAntenna

name = MKS.ConstructionHub

name = MKS.PDU

name = MKS.ExpandoTube

name = MKS.DockingTube

name = MKS.StorageHut.01

name = MKS.StorageHut.02

name = MKS.StorageHut.03

name = MKS.DockingHub

name = MKS.DockingPort

name = MKS.DockingTube

name = MKS.Greenhouse

name = MKS.Workspace

name = MKS.WaterPlant

name = MKS.TubeHub

name = MKS.BioLab

name = MKS.Terraformer

name = MKS.RadialPort

Under newnode_spaceHabitation (this is not quite ideal flavour-wise, as it's actually advanced surface habitation, but why bother with a different node?)

name = MKS.AssemblyPlant

name = MKS.ChemicalRefinery

name = MKS.ComputerFactory

name = MKS.ElectronicsFab

name = MKS.ExpandoTube2

name = MKS.ExpandoTube8

name = MKS.FlexoTube

name = MKS.MachineShop

name = MKS.MetalRefinery

name = MKS.PlasticsFab

name = MKS.PolymerRefinery

name = MKS.Recycler

name = MKS.RobotFactory

name = MKS.RoverHut.01

name = MKS.RoverHut.02

name = MKS.StorageHut.04

name = MKS.StorageHut.05

name = MKS.StorageHut.06

name = MKS.StorageHut.07

name = MKS.StorageHut.08

name = MKS.StorageHut.09

Under newnode_largeRobotics

name = MKS.LogisticsHub

Component interdependence makes further splitting impractical. RoverDude is working on a tech progression in the stock tree for his next update though, and that should make integrating it in to this one a bit more interesting too

Further, I came across a few parts that seem to appear either a little too early or not from the right connection. They're just some points I noticed in the early game. When you really have to watch your tech points those kind of items in the 'wrong' places make the comparison of available techs a little lop-sided, and I felt pushed in a certain direction because of them.

Interstellar's gas spectrometer is at newnode_atmosphericScienceTechnology, should be node7_advScienceTech (incidentally, that should probably be titled Advanced Atmosphere Investigations)

name = FNGCMS

B9's advanced science combination parts appear together with the Material Study at newnode_materialsInvestigations instead of with the Gravimeter where it should be, at newnode_planetaryScienceTechnology.

name = B9.Cockpit.MK2.Nosecone.ASAS &

name = B9.Control.ACU

KW's Vesta engine is rather on the OP side to begin with (both very high TWR and extreme isp), making it available at node2_generalRocketry is just too early, entirely negating the LV-909. It should be at node3_advRocketry at least, but because of how good it is I'd actually place it at newnode_advancedAvantGarde

name = KW1mengineVestaVR1

I don't think Miniaturization should be a prereq for Electronics. A: how does making small hull adapters contribute to designing Stayputnik when it's actually the largest of the early probes, and B: What's the point of tiny rocket parts before you can get a probe core? Miniaturization also includes things like the miniature stack decoupler, even though the actual stack decoupler only becomes available at Compound Rocketry. That should probably wait till Miniature Avant-Garde Rocketry.

Landing seems a tad expensive (especially as you kinda need it if you're going the aviation route, and its the opposite side of the tree), and the Electrics link seems a bit off too. I can see why, but I'd think it might flow better from Miniaturization: wheels have to be strong but made small and fit in little compartments. Landing struts have to fold up small on the side of rockets, etc. Perhaps it should require both, but be 10 sci cheaper.

Procedural Fairing bases appear a fair bit before the actual fairings which are at Composite Materials, while KW's fairings start appearing allongside their bases at Aerospaceframes. There's something to be said for both configurations (separate tech for each part, after all) but having them work differently is a little odd.

Anyways, great tech tree, I appreciate all the work you've put in to it and I'm enjoying it a ton! I think I'll see about working the [url=]http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/60750-WIP-Cacteye-Telescope-v0-1-%282-1-14%29-Modular-EVA-serviceable-orbital-telescope?highlight=cacteyeCacteye Telescope in to the tree tomorrow

Edited June 26, 2014 by TurielD

[Gaugeforever]

New to this mod. I tried searching this thread to no avail and I looked in the tree file and the word engineer appears only a google times. So my question is, where in the tree do I unlock kerbal engineer. Because I needs mah delta V calcs!

EDIT:

Tags for future people looking to answer this, for searches.

Kerbal Engineer

Tech Tree

Ackander Vertical

Edited June 26, 2014 by Gaugeforever

[DaPatman]

The build engineer only chip is in Advanced Rocketry. Unlocking that node gives you access to Integrated Advanced Rocketry, where the other two chips are located.

[Gaugeforever]

The build engineer only chip is in Advanced Rocketry. Unlocking that node gives you access to Integrated Advanced Rocketry, where the other two chips are located.

Thanks! Much appreciated!

[Syncaidius]

I've never posted on the forums until now but, any idea when this mod will be updated for 0.24?

It's been one of my most used mods as of late due to the extra difficulty it adds to the game. Hopefully it gets one soon.

[Ackander]

I just got the .24 update this afternoon.

Unless there were changes made to how the Science center works, or the TreeEdit/TreeLoader mods' compatability with the new version is different, the current version of Ackander's Vertical Tech Tree should work just fine. The parts that were added will be added to their stock nodes, which should be fine for now.

If this AVTT does not work, it is because of how TreeEdit/TreeLoader works with KSP v.24, just to clearify.

[autumnalequinox]

I just got the .24 update this afternoon.

Unless there were changes made to how the Science center works, or the TreeEdit/TreeLoader mods' compatability with the new version is different, the current version of Ackander's Vertical Tech Tree should work just fine. The parts that were added will be added to their stock nodes, which should be fine for now.

If this AVTT does not work, it is because of how TreeEdit/TreeLoader works with KSP v.24, just to clearify.

treeloader works fine on 0.24 x86. science is a bit less grindy now on career even if you have to do the same ridiculous "landed at ksc" part tests. things move a bit quickly now, i'm thinking of tweaking costs up for myself.

[Ackander]

Oh good. Has anyone else noticed any EVA'd kerbal recovery bugs? I think it was a problem with the TechTree somehow, with a part in two seperate nodes..

[Probus]

Ackander,

Have you noticed any new bugs in the tech tree editor when used on .24? I am seeing two things happen while I am tweaking my tree. 1st, halfway through a game, KSP quits giving me new science points. 2nd, KSP all of a sudden takes away all my experimental parts so I can't finish the contracts. Weird.... Must be in the persist file though. When I start a new game and copy the tree.cfg file in, the problem goes away.

[Ackander]

Yeah. I am seeing some bugs in my testing games. Like when I EVA a kerbal and try to recover him, he is not recovered but the recovery screen pops up saying I received reputation (I am guessing the number is the amount I already have, so efectively doubling my rep amount), but he is still where I left him and recoverable still, but seemingly randomly, when I change scenes, the real recovery window will pop up and he is recovered along with the science he had on him and a reasonable amount of rep. I have not pin pointed the cause of the bug yet, still cycling mods in and out to see which one is for sure it, but every time it has happened, I was playing with my TechTree. So either it is my TechTree specifically, or something with TreeLoader. I just dunno yet. Anyone else?

edit: I just remembered another bug I was having problems with. During a long flight, right clicking parts stopped working. It was infuriating believe you me. Not sure why I had that one either..

Edited August 2, 2014 by Ackander

[Nori]

So really wanted to use this, but after a few missions I stopped getting Science. Pretty sure it is treeloader bugging out.

[Ackander]

How do you mean "stopped getting Science"? I never stopped getting science, just a weird Kerbal recovery bug..

[Nori]

Ah, sorry should have explained better. I have been reading so many threads I forget what has been said where.

I finish a flight and click recover and no science is awarded. It go straight to the reputation screen. Tried a few flights and restarting and no go.

Was reading some other tech tree threads and it sounds like a tree loader issues that only affects trees with more than a certain number of tech nodes.

[Ackander]

Ah, sorry should have explained better. I have been reading so many threads I forget what has been said where.

I finish a flight and click recover and no science is awarded. It go straight to the reputation screen. Tried a few flights and restarting and no go.

Was reading some other tech tree threads and it sounds like a tree loader issues that only affects trees with more than a certain number of tech nodes.

That certainly sounds like the issue I have been experiencing. Are you playing with any other mods? I have found that the science does eventually get awarded if you keep randomly switching between the different scenes, VAB, main, tracking, etc.. If it is an issue with the number of nodes, then that sucks. The only hope in that case is that R4mon can find the time and the desire to update TreeLoader. Here's hoping.

[Nori]

yeah, I have quite a few mods. They all seem to be working fine and I've gotten a ways into the tech tree.

When I installed treeloader and put your tree.cfg into a new save then I only got a few techs in before it got screwy.

[Ackander]

I would like to think I have found a work around. I have only done it a few times now, but it seems to not break the save, and the recovery function works normally.

Asumming you have a vessel waiting to be recover'd:

Step 1: Load game as normal.

Step 2: alt+tab to your save folder where tree.cfg is located

Step 3: rename tree.cfg to notree.cfg

Step 4: alt+tab back to game

Step 5: press Esc to save game as whatever you want

Step 6: press Esc to load the whatever you want game

Step 7: proceed to Tracking Station and recover vessel, normality should ensue

Step 8: return to main scene

Step 9: press Esc to save game as whatever you want

Step 10: press Esc to load the whatever you want game

Step 11: alt+tab to your save folder where tree.cfg is located

Step 12: rename notree.cfg to tree.cfg

Step 13: alt+tab back to game

Step 14: press Esc to save game as whatever you want

Step 15: press Esc to load the whatever you want game

Step 16: play the game normally with Ackander's Vertical TechTree (or other modTechTree)

When you have another vessel to recover (only predicted behavior at the moment, not yet tested) go to the main scene and begin with Step 2.. I am testing this bit right now to make sure I am right..

I know it is a lot of steps, but it does not take too much time, nor effort to do the saving, loading, altTabbing, renaming..

Hopefully othesr can test this workaround and either verify or not if it works. Thanks!

[BLUESHADOW125]

wait this doesnt work with FASA???

[Ackander]

wait this doesnt work with FASA???

It is not that FASA does not work with the Vertical TechTree, it is only that I never integrated the FASA parts into the tree. The parts are guaranteed to be in the tree, however they will only appear in their stock nodes as designated by frizzank. Their placement is neither right nor wrong, as I never got to work on the update following the v1.15.45 release of the Vertical TechTree which, as it happens, would have included FASA, see from planning file:

Next Update:

Angara Pack

Aset ALCOR

BFT Conformal Tank Pack

BFT Form Tank Pack

ESA Pack

Experimental Parts Pack

FASA

Kerbal Dust Experiment

MPSS Nautilus

Prometheus Rover

PTK NP

RocketCo Noyuz

sfr Command Pod

Stock Station Parts

The Truss Pack

TMA Orbital Habitat Pack

Vostok Spaceship

Falcon II Engine

All stock nodes are in the VerticalTree, so any parts with "TechRequired = stock_node_whatever" will be in my tree too. Don't worry about it, I'm a professional.

[Dielos]

Hello Ackander,

Are you considering updating this tree to adapt to new mods, and maybe remove non-updated ones? This is the tree I enjoyed the most back in 0.23, but I have the feeling that it's going to have too many empty nodes if leaving many of the mods that haven't been updated out.

Maybe a light version could be done also, that supports the most common and updated mods and leaves landers (I like to build landers myself...) out? That might also solve the problems you're having with science.

I found this tree to be the best balanced, fun, and rewarding to play, and I would love to jump back into it!

[ClLaw]

I agree with Dielos. I never actually got to finish it in 0.23 but I enjoyed your tree with each different save I had. A more up to date one would be awesome so that I'm not wasting Science on empty nodes to be able to open other nodes and also would be nice if someone could try and update Treeloader(if allowed of course) so that you are able to keep the tree big and progressive. Tried other trees but I just can't find the enthusiasm to play them for some reason

[Ackander]

I made a reply some days ago, I guess I did not submit it like I thought I did.

I have a few ideas of what I want to do with the tree, aside from completely re-do it. Either it is my tree, or TreeLoader itself, but one or the other gives me some form of problems when I play, namely the vessel recovery problem I mentioned somewhat above this post, with subsequent workaround that works for me just fine, and which nobody seems to have noticed. Anyway, I was hoping to wait until TreeLoader or KSP itself could handle bigger trees before tackling another round of TechTree modding.

[Ratzap]

I've been looking into treeloader for the RPL mod and there seem to be some deep seated problems. Specifically, interaction with the contract system - when a contract is completed or every X seconds the system tries to generate a new random contract. If it picks a part test contract, it goes and tries to pick a part then looks up the tech node for the part. For stock this isn't a problem because every part exists and has an assigned tech tree node. Trees built with tree edit often have gaps, empty nodes, parts which are not assigned to any node, parts assigned to nodes but which are optional and don't actually exist. All of those make the contract picker dump a stack trace and die.

Assigning parts with no node to a default dumping ground solves one problem but you'd also need to solve the other one where parts aren't loaded but are in the tree. If Squad had written the contract code to be a bit more robust (for example catch the exception and automatically retry with a different pick) we wouldn't have the problem but hey, spilt milk etc.

I got a treeloader working for science sandbox mode but the contract problems are not going to be easy to fix or work around I fear.

[ClLaw]

So are you saying the custom trees should work in Science mode but not in Career mode? I think I could possibly live with that

[dtoxic]

I've been looking into treeloader for the RPL mod and there seem to be some deep seated problems. Specifically, interaction with the contract system - when a contract is completed or every X seconds the system tries to generate a new random contract. If it picks a part test contract, it goes and tries to pick a part then looks up the tech node for the part. For stock this isn't a problem because every part exists and has an assigned tech tree node. Trees built with tree edit often have gaps, empty nodes, parts which are not assigned to any node, parts assigned to nodes but which are optional and don't actually exist. All of those make the contract picker dump a stack trace and die.

Assigning parts with no node to a default dumping ground solves one problem but you'd also need to solve the other one where parts aren't loaded but are in the tree. If Squad had written the contract code to be a bit more robust (for example catch the exception and automatically retry with a different pick) we wouldn't have the problem but hey, spilt milk etc.

I got a treeloader working for science sandbox mode but the contract problems are not going to be easy to fix or work around I fear.

how do you use custom tech tree in science mode?

[ClLaw]

how do you use custom tech tree in science mode?

I haven't played in weeks but is science mode not like career mode but without the contracts/funds/reputation? Then there's sandbox mode which is just everything unlocked?