Realism packs for historical mods

[Guest]

This has grown from my old "Real Soyuz" patch back in Realism Overhaul thread. It's a general thread for all realism overhaul packs aimed at bringing historical spacecraft to RSS. I'll be releasing my packs here and linking to others, so they're easy to find.

So, without further fuss, I present my first proper release:

Communism realism: BobCat's Soviet Pack for RSS

Dependencies (At least one part would be unusable without them): ExsurgentEngineering (from B9), Modular Fuel System, Module Manager, Real Chutes, Procedural Fairings, BobCat's Soviet Pack.

Requirements (Would work without them, but was not designed to do so. So no warranty): Engine Ignitor, ECLSS, Deadly Reentry, kOS, Kerbal Attachment System, Procedural Wings, Real Solar System, Realism Overhaul, Kerbal Joint Reinforcement, Ferram Aerospace Research.

NOTE: If you wish to disable ECLSS for better performance, try deleting only plugins and leaving resource configs in place. That would lessen the impact on the spacecraft masses.

Installation: Copy "Realism Pack" from the archive into GameData. Then move "Ships" and "Subassemblies" from inside the "Realism Pack" folder to your save of choice. Note, you also need to correctly install other mods, especially dependencies, since the mod makes certain assumptions about location of model/texture flies.

License:

You can release any modifications you make, as long as you give me proper credit. Any released alteration to the pack is subject to being incorporated into the main pack itself, with it's author being credited, either in this thread, or inside the main config.

Currently supported craft:

Communist Realism:

Soyuz U
Soyuz U2 (Syntin-burning U)
 Soyuz U-Fregat
Proton K
Proton K-Blok D
Proton K-Blok DM (Syntin-burning Blok D)
Energia
Progress M
Soyuz TMA
MIR Core Module
Kvant 1+FSM (Requires realism overhaul)
Kvant 2
Kristall
Spektr
Priroda
Zvezda
Zarya

Future plans:

The Right Stuff: FASA for RSS

Co-developed with NathanKell, it'll feature all FASA craft we can re-make to a realistic configuration.

Russia In Space: Space Factory for RSS

Will probably feature Angara+PPTS at first. Later, it might become dependent on Communism Realism pack due to inclusion of Luna 17 and Vostok, as well as other Space Factory releases.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Guest

[Budgie]

This is not at .64 scale right? I haven't been following the Realism Overhaul stuff, so I'm just guessing here.

[Guest]

Nope, it's rescaled to 1:1 scale. Note, this doesn't really fit standardized RO part diameters, so the parts aren't really interchangeable. However, since you do get two complete rocket systems with this mod, fairings and all, you don't have to worry about it.

[Deathsoul097]

Does this include a resized Buran?

[Guest]

Not yet, I'm working on it. You do get the Energia, though. It's an incredible LV by itself, though rather tricky to fly.

[Deathsoul097]

Damn, Buran would be the only reason I would download this, sorry, but It is IMO the best.

[Guest]

Wait for the next release then. It'll probably have the Buran and Kliper. I'm mostly working on getting The Right Stuff and Russia In Space done, but once that's out, Communism Realism should get an update. Won't be anytime soon, though, I'm probably gonna be very busy till Xmas.

[Deathsoul097]

Awesome! I might try out the other rockets over the weekend though. Do you have any plans to resize the Ares Rockets and Altair, because I might be able to help you. I assume you are just going off of the documented numbers for mass and thrust, considering Bobcat's standard 64% makes it much easier to physically rescale them.

[Guest]

I've already started on the American Pack, but it turned out that Ares I has a terrible wobble problem, even with KJR. I'm going to try out some of my ideas to solve it, but I don't know what will come of it, so it's on hold now.

Also, if you have some good data (RCS thrust, dry and wet mass, mostly, I know the engine parameters) on Ares V EDS, I'd appreciate it. My main source has failed me in that regard.

[Deathsoul097]

I'm guessing your main source is Wikipedia? I'll see what I can scrounge up on it, but I don't think the EDS carried RCS fuel or thrusters.

EDIT: From what I can tell, the EDS is a reshaped Ares I Second stage. It uses a J-2X, and is able to put 70 tonnes to a TLI burn, so the numbers seem to add up. (Ill test what I can and write up some numbers to see, but as far as I can tell, that's all we have on the EDS, It seems NASA didn't release much information about it other than "Hey, This can take stuff to the moon with this engine!"

Edited December 6, 2013 by Deathsoul097

[Guest]

Nope, it's Astronautix. Wikipedia just doesn't have enough details. And EDS did carry RCS in the version I'm modeling. There was probably more than one proposition, so keep that in mind. I'm looking for the one with "loiter skirt" and a single J-2X.

[0x7be]

Wow, I was doing thing like this just for myself.

Turns out I was inventing square wheel

Will give it a try right now.

Edited December 6, 2013 by 0x7be

[XbasmanX]

So I would need the other mods for this to work correctly?

[Guest]

Yeah, preferably all of them. I spent a lot of time making sure this all works together. I suppose you could pass on kOS and (as per comment) ECLSS, if you keep the resources. But others are near essential for a proper experience (and for the COM on Soyuz to be reasonably placed). Well, you could also skip Procedural Wings if you don't want to use Soyuz .craft files, but you'd have to be very careful about flying it, since I used them for the winglets. Otherwise, it's a bit temperamental.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Guest

[0x7be]

Hmm... any specific instructions how to get Soyuz to orbit? I always fall short getting ~7.2 km/s of orbital velocity when third stage runs out of fuel.

[Guest]

That's not a trivial matter. You need to start the turn early, preferably before you hit 100m/s. Aim for about 230km Ap. Much lower and you won't have enough TWR, much higher and you won't have enough dV. Now, you will cross the apoapsis before being able to circularize. It is important to pitch up slightly soon after that happens, in order to avoid raising apoapsis when you try to circularize.

You probably neglected the last step, resulting in ridiculous apopasis and low peryapsis. The art of circularizing past Ap is vital for flying any sort of historical rocket, as it turns out. The adjustments need to be very precise. Also, you could use MechJeb to monitor your loses to steering and gravity. The former should be negligable, while the latter will be around 1500m/s. If they're higher, you're fumbling your gravity turn. Also, jettison LES just before the booster cutoff, like on the real Soyuz. It's quite weighty.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Guest

[Deathsoul097]

That is the EDS I was looking at, and nothing I have found indicated it had RCS. Oh Well. Best to keep searching.

[Guest]

RCS is noncritical. If you've got a dry and wet mass figure, that'd still help a lot.

[Deathsoul097]

I will see what I can work out.

OK. According to KSP, with an engine of the same ISP and mass, using LH2/LOX, I came to about 130 tonnes total mass, and about 7 tonnes dry mass, to get the required Delta V for a TLI and LOI, for a 70 Tonne payload.

[Guest]

That's not this simple. I want real data, i.e. what did it actually weight in the proposal, not any KSP-based estimates of yours. The reason is, it doesn't only do TLI, but also a good part of LEO insertion. It's not easy to just estimate, especially that you also have to consider TWR, which is extremely low on the EDS. It has to make it to the Moon, which is easy, yet it also has to make it to LEO, which is a very much nontrivial task. And it has to be launched on a first stage, for which I do have data. Oh, and EDS doesn't do LOI. OME takes care of that.

[Deathsoul097]

Unfortunately, after hours of searching, there is no documented mass of the EDS that I can find (Nor any mention of on-board RCS?). Which is why I resorted to using KSP to figure out the numbers, since that is where it will be used.

Ah. Well. If it doesn't have to do a LOI burn that should reduce the mass considerably. (Test in editor in KSP, using ST, MFS, KER gives 90 tonnes total, 5 tonnes dry) However I cant find any mention of the EDS completing LEO Insertion. Hmmm. This is annoying.

Look. I know these are numbers given in KSP. Unfortunately I believe this is the best we are going to get. Because other than what you already know, I can't find ANYTHING on the EDS.

EDIT:

I found this on the Astronautix website, listing it as the second stage of the Ares V. (Which doesn't have a second stage. Just the first stage, boosters and the EDS) Plus, the numbers match what I had earlier, including completion of EOI. It does seem pretty OP for a second stage, and it has an exceptionally low TWR, so it sounds about right.

Lox/LH2 propellant rocket stage. Loaded/empty mass 172,000/13,200 kg. Thrust 1,113.00 kN. Vacuum specific impulse 465 seconds. Second stage proposed later in design stage by NASA for launch of CEV into low earth orbit. All masses estimated.

Status: In development.

Gross mass: 172,000 kg (379,000 lb).

Unfuelled mass: 13,200 kg (29,100 lb).

Height: 16.00 m (52.00 ft).

Diameter: 10.00 m (32.00 ft).

Span: 10.00 m (32.00 ft).

Thrust: 1,113.00 kN (250,212 lbf).

Specific impulse: 465 s.

Burn time: 640 s.

Hope it helps.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Deathsoul097

[Deathsoul097]

Sorry for the double post, but any news?

[Guest]

Yeah, I've rescaled Soviet Pack to a higher precision. Also, I've run into scaling problems with The Right Stuff and Russia In Space, but they're almost done. Now I'm waiting for NathanKell to figure out what went wrong. There there will be a testing phase, and hopefully, both packs will be out before Xmas. Russia In Space won't have a Vostok, but it's booster block would be included as Luna/Vostok upper stage. Soyuz will have additional engine configs (MFS-based) for Voskhod, Sputnik, Luna and Vostok, possibly multiple versions, depending on how much they differed. No Molniya though, at least unless MrTheBull releases his Blok L. Note, all that will only be possible for MFS v4, so the new Communist Realism won't be out before that. Buran is coming, but I'm rather busy now, so I will start working on both Buran and Soyuz variants next weekend. Before that, only smaller stuff/testing what's ready now.

[Deathsoul097]

Awesome! It sounds like you have your hands full so I will stop bothering you for now.

[Guest]

Just a small note. Any releases are postponed into next week due to 0.23 release. The plugins will probably update, which I'll need to account for, which will take time. Also, I'll need to include 0.23 features and make the mod compatible, which again will take some time and testing. It's possible that you'll be waiting for that until Xmas, but if so, I'll try to throw in a little additional feature/supported craft.