SCIENCE (this is a discussion too!)

[horndgmium]

Ok so I do science at U of R, and I've been thinking a lot about the experiments we do. There are like 4000 gadgets and machines we use here to do experiments, some of which are small, some of which are large. I was thinking that these could be attachable parts, or labs. Maybe even take a "science array" up to space, like an external lab, and you can attach certain science devices to it. These science parts, like real ones, could get upgraded with a small cost and prior research. They are also geared more towards the microscopic scale. Also, you should probably have to designate one kerbal as a scientist, who gets better at not breaking things, because untrained kerbals might break equipment.

These should also have an intuitive component: as in, when doing some science experiment, the results lead you to carry out another experiment (maybe even on a sample, or to compare samples), and doing so will give you more science than doing either/or, or even doing them in a separate order. One experiment should lead logically to another to get max science, otherwise the results are somewhat meaningless. Also, the results don't necessarily tell you what experiment to do next, but lead you to pick a proper one either by trial and error (90% of the time IRL), or intuition (90% of what we believe we do IRL).

Smarter play = more science though (if TL;DR)

Here, I'll compile a list these sciencing devices that would be kinda cool to have in the game. I'll put pictures for some so you guys get an idea what they look like.

Mass Spectrometer

Used for protein identification by mass analysis. Can identify organic molecules. Also useful for mass analysis of non-organic particles like surface samples. Can compare samples. With upgrade, run samples simultaneously. Etc.

http://www.antidopingresearch.org/images/HighRes/Orbitrap%20liquid%20chromatograph-mass%20spectrometer2.jpg

X-ray Crystallography

Requires Source of X-rays and Crystallization container.

Used to determine exact structure of organic or inorganic compounds/molecules. Can help determine how molecules interact with each other.

Yields diffraction pattern, which can me analyzed by a "computer" for additional science

With upgrade: increases resolution by one angstrom, starting at 5 angstroms, until you reach a max resolution of one angstrom.

http://chemistry.osu.edu/files/page/2911/KappaCCD.jpg

Transmission Electron Microscope

Close up inspection of sample/molecule/kerbal's face, whatever.

Follow this by any other experiments to make sense of what you see.

Upgrades increase resolution, thus increasing initial science value, and increasing value from secondary experiments even more.

http://www.news-medical.net/image.axd?picture=2012%2F12%2Fjoel3.jpg

Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Spectroscopy (NMR) and Infrared Spectroscopy (IR)

Used to determine structure of compounds. Use in conjunction with mass spec to get better structure data. However, some molecules can only be scanned by mass spec OR NMR/IR, so if one doesn't work, you must use the other. NMR and IR used in conjunction increase data analysis speed, but can be used interchangeably.

Upgrades = less analysis time

NMR: http://chemistry.fas.nyu.edu/docs/IO/1311/ba600NMR.jpg

IR: http://academics.wellesley.edu/Chemistry/chem211lab/Orgo_Lab_Manual/Appendix/Instruments/InfraredSpec/entire_ft-ir.png

(I guess don't use metal spatulas?)

Absorption Spectrophotometry

Tells you what wavelength your sample absorbs light at (what color it is).

Useful for protein analysis (rate of enzyme function) which could be different in space (just like everything here).

Upgrades improve accuracy of data (more science value)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Spektrofotometri.jpg

Laser Lab

Shoot lasers at stuff and see what happens (I don't really understand this one... so yeah).

Upgrade: more powerful/focused laser

http://www.rochester.edu/research/images/lle.jpg

Medical Research Lab

Bring various antibiotics/vaccines/ treatments etc. to space/other planets and see how they work there (need to test on something living... sacrifice a kerbal?). Might be rep science until something changes, in which case you get a lot of science for an epiphany.

Purification Equipment

There are like 400 ways to do this. Centrifuge, antibody screening, filtration column (that relies on gravity though), protein labeling purification, etc.

These would improve mass spec, NMR, and other things the more you do it (can never get 100% purity, but start at like 5% or whatever for a sample and increase from there in chunks asymptotically to 100). Must actually come before the other experiments or they won't give much science because they'll be impossible/difficult to analyze lower than 25% purity.

Upgrades increase the purity after each cycle of purification/filtration, meaning you do less cycles requiring less electricity.

Centrifuge: http://www.scientificinternational.co.in/silma/images/centrifuge.gif

Well anyway this was a fun study break for me, but I thought I would throw this out there for you guys to see what you think. The microscopic scale is hugely important for research, although IDK if this would add fun so much as increase complexity for science. It would be unnecessary, but be a better way to increase science through thinking. It'd be fun for me at least!

[tetryds]

Isn't that too deep into micromanagement?

I don't want to set arrays of tests to run one after another and mess up everything if i forgot a single test in between.

Those equipments are theorically at KSC already, and the science which would be provided by them is the science you get from the experiments and data you collected.

And that kind of equipment is what should "be inside" the science module planned for 0.23

This is not a bad idea though.

I like the Laser Lab, but it should me something more like Curiosity, not a huge lab.

Edited December 9, 2013 by tetryds

[horndgmium]

You're right that theoretically this already happens, but I'm kind of proposing a puzzle sort of system where intuitive decisions for science add more science. I kind of like the idea that you have to pick the experiments to run to maximize science (and I don't think doing one experiment should prevent you from doing other experiments, just that it won't give you as much science).

All in all though, I think it could be available but certainly NOT necessary.

[Dwight_js]

I personally really like the idea of having more relevant science experiments along with cartoon, "green goo" experiments. The trick is that the average person also needs to find it both highly intuitive and fun, and that's a balance that can be tricky to achieve. I work in Geographic Information Systems and voiced my wish for mapping satellites that give you elevation data to use in slope analysis (for fining flat landing spots in mission planning). The process would be simulated with the click of a few buttons, but people already stated that it might be too technical for a lot of players.

I think perhaps the best we can hope for in the vanilla game is that the location where you perform your science experiments has an impact on what tech you can unlock (e.g. research in the atmosphere gives you better aerodynamics and unlocks plane parts and better engines). More realistic science suites could be added as mods for those who want the added complexity.

[horndgmium]

I do like idea a lot! It makes so much sense too, and wouldn't be too difficult if the game tells you where/what you have and have not done.

I think intuitive research would be great just because it feels good to get a better result (more science) from something you chose to do a certain way.

It seems a simple enough in-game prompt that you have to do experiments in different combos to get max science. Some players will get it fast, others slow, but as always with KSP, if you don't get it at first, SM will make a video to help you!

[Dwight_js]

... but as always with KSP, if you don't get it at first, SM will make a video to help you!

Lol - people were discussing whether there should be a built-in "helper" to give you hints and tricks. Maybe they should build Scott Manley in as that helper. Just click on a button and get "Heloooooo - Scot Manley here! Looks like you're having trouble building rockets!"

[horndgmium]

Lol - people were discussing whether there should be a built-in "helper" to give you hints and tricks. Maybe they should build Scott Manley in as that helper. Just click on a button and get "Heloooooo - Scot Manley here! Looks like you're having trouble building rockets!"

Haha, "I see that you haven't made it to orbit with 14 rockets in a row, care for some help?"