Island....

[Vrana]

What if he cannot steer airplanes, like me?

...and...

What if we can't find any airplane tutorials?

Then you build a spaceship, launch it into orbit, deorbit and land on the island.

But seriously... What is the problem with aircraft steering? Maybe i can help.

[Whatshtisthis]

Airplanes are easy to fly.

It's like flying a spaceplane, but without the going to orbit part. Pull up when taking off, do whatever you want as long as you don't spin out, land, that's all.

[Commissioner Tadpole]

Then you build a spaceship, launch it into orbit, deorbit and land on the island.

Yeah...real funny. (Not)

But seriously... What is the problem with aircraft steering? Maybe i can help.

Every time I try to steer normally an airplane(with A and D keys), it barely steers, and when I try to steer by pressing E and then S, the airplane tumbles out of control.

Airplanes are easy to fly.

It's like flying a spaceplane, but without the going to orbit part. Pull up when taking off, do whatever you want as long as you don't spin out, land, that's all.

All you have to do with spaceplanes is to keep your nose upwards, max. throttle, SAS on, wait until your spaceplane is above Kerbin's atmosphere, wait until Periapsis, burn prograde to circularize, ta-dah, you're in orbit.

Airplanes need to steer for maximum travel(and fun) potential. Flying at the same longitude is barely useful(might as well use a rover unless) unless your target is in the same longitute, and you cannot go to the island(because it isn't in the same longitude).

Edited December 12, 2013 by Commissioner Tadpole

[Vrana]

E then S is the correct procedure. I guess just be more gentle with it. Try E until you are about 45 degrees and then S just a bit. Stabilize and repeat if needed.

Also try googling "aircraft bank turn" and see if you can find useful info with that. KSP does behave somewhat similar to real life(if you install FAR it becomes very similar).

[1of6Billion]

...and...

Then you build a spaceship, launch it into orbit, deorbit and land on the island.

But seriously... What is the problem with aircraft steering? Maybe i can help.

That's what I did

Edited December 12, 2013 by 1of6Billion

[Commissioner Tadpole]

E then S is the correct procedure. I guess just be more gentle with it. Try E until you are about 45 degrees and then S just a bit. Stabilize and repeat if needed.

Also try googling "aircraft bank turn" and see if you can find useful info with that. KSP does behave somewhat similar to real life(if you install FAR it becomes very similar).

Not an option. Airplanes enjoy being rough brats, and as such, for them it's either Insta 180° turn and tumble out of control towards the ground or I hate you, I won't turn.

[Vrana]

Well you seem to know how to do it but fail for some reason i cannot see looking only at these posts.

Have you tried with FAR? Maybe a more realistic aerodynamic model will suit you better.

[Scrogdog]

I'm serious.

Googled for "How to fly airplanes in KSP". Got tutorials on how to build spaceplanes.

Ironically, I got no results on how to fly airplanes. Again, only how to build and fly spaceplanes(for .18, even).

Keep an eye on The Drawing Board in the tutorials section.

This should get you flying. Anyone can fly this plane. Promise.

Learn to fly in KSP with the stock Aeris 3A

Not sure why search didn't find this, but The Drawing Board is a great resource. I still use it.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Scrogdog

[Commissioner Tadpole]

Will ruin MechJeb(specifically the landing phase). And possibly screw my existing skills that are alterady not A-OK to begin with.

[Whatshtisthis]

Have some practice before taking the real flight.

[Scrogdog]

Will ruin MechJeb(specifically the landing phase). And possibly screw my existing skills that are alterady not A-OK to begin with.

Well, you said you wanted to learn to fly.

Mechjeb can help, but at some point, if you really want to learn, you will need to observe what Mechjeb does, and then do it yourself.

Trust me, I am one of the biggest seat-of-the-pants engineers and pilots on these boards. If I can do it, anyone can!

[Commissioner Tadpole]

Also... I did crash the Aeris 3A.

[Whatshtisthis]

Take your time.

Be gentle with the controls, practice makes perfect.

[Scrogdog]

Also... I did crash the Aeris 3A.

So did I. I believe the words I used were "you have to screw up pretty badly to crash it" which is mostly true. Maybe I should amend that to read "unless you don't know how to land".

That's the difficult part. Like I said, try gliding in to get that part down. As you probably know, you don't want to touch down with the nose wheel first. So, use both power, pitch and trim to keep your plane in the proper profile for landing, that is, wing wheels first to touch down.

It definitely takes practice! But it's a great plane to practice with.

Pitch and power can and often needs to be adjusted as you come in. Don't be afraid of crashing; Like Whackjob said, don't fear failure because failure is data that we learn from. Coming in too fast or slow, or too high or low, are not fatal if you know what to do.

So, experiment with pitch and power as you come in. Eventually, with practice and patience, you'll get it. Nose down increases speed, for example, while nose up bleeds it off. Of course, power can also affect speed, so it is the relationship between the two that one needs to learn.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Scrogdog

[jsfalconero]

Yeah, crashing planes is easy, flying them is a little harder. The thing is that engineering plays a role as well. If your airframe is not well balanced you can easily turn too quickly and lose control. It can even happen in stable aircraft like the Aeris (as the wreckage scattered all over my spaceport can testify) but happens less frequently.

One suggestion I have is to try using fine controls (bound to the Caps Lock key) -you can still oversteer using it, but it should lead to less "instant death" incidents. The other thing I suggest is the banking turns that have been suggested elsewhere. Roll to between 45 and 90 degrees (I'm going to assume 90 since I tend to be a little aggressive with my rolls and always wind up at or past 90) then pull up. Your nose is at 90 deg to the horizon, so up is actually sideways. If you find that your nose is dropping you can turn left or right (with the tail... a or d depending on the direction of the turn) which when rolled 90 degrees becomes up and down. Airplanes love to move the nose up and down relative to themselves since they have the wings to really help move along that axis. When flying it helps to remember that and try to steer by making "up" move you in the direction you really want to go.

Hope that helps! Also, I would avoid trying to land until you're confident in your ability to steer in flight. But that's a lesson for another day

Edited December 12, 2013 by jsfalconero

[Wahgineer]

I'm serious.

Googled for "How to fly airplanes in KSP". Got tutorials on how to build spaceplanes.

See, it's arrogant posts like this that makes me dislike the KSP community; too arrogant and self-centered.

Ironically, I got no results on how to fly airplanes. Again, only how to build and fly spaceplanes(for .18, even).

Look who's talking.

You do realize that a spaceplane and an airplane are basically the same thing? Just that one has rockets on it and the other doesn't?

What that tutorial will tell you are the same instructions for planes, basically. Also, the reason some tutorials are from 0.18 is mainly because they way airplanes work hasn't changed at all.

[_Aramchek_]

"Airplanes are hard to fly."

What?! *blinks*, I never got this, if you design your plane right it should almost fly itself.

[Commissioner Tadpole]

Look who's talking.

You do realize that a spaceplane and an airplane are basically the same thing? Just that one has rockets on it and the other doesn't?

What that tutorial will tell you are the same instructions for planes, basically. Also, the reason some tutorials are from 0.18 is mainly because they way airplanes work hasn't changed at all.

And spaceplane flight tutorials barely include steering, if it includes it at all.

Also, this is the seventh time I crashed the Aeris 3A:

Not to mention the annoying thing that the airplane swirls out of control whenever I try to steer it.

"Airplanes are hard to fly."

What?! *blinks*, I never got this, if you design your plane right it should almost fly itself.

I'm using Aeris 3A. And since when all you needed to do is to lay back and watch as airplanes begin to fly with no player input?

[Tex_NL]

...

I'm using Aeris 3A. And since when all you needed to do is to lay back and watch as airplanes begin to fly with no player input?

With the right design a plane CAN take off stably without any input. But keep in mind Aramchek did use the word 'almost'. He never claimed his planes flew without input.

[Dizzle]

What exactly do you mean when you say you have trouble steering? Without hearing the specifics, it's possible that you're overcontrolling. Try to avoid making sharp turns. A good way to avoid this is to make sure your nose isn't pointed too far away from your prograde.

[Sirrobert]

Every time I try to steer normally an airplane(with A and D keys), it barely steers, and when I try to steer by pressing E and then S, the airplane tumbles out of control.

All you have to do with spaceplanes is to keep your nose upwards, max. throttle, SAS on, wait until your spaceplane is above Kerbin's atmosphere, wait until Periapsis, burn prograde to circularize, ta-dah, you're in orbit.

Airplanes need to steer for maximum travel(and fun) potential. Flying at the same longitude is barely useful(might as well use a rover unless) unless your target is in the same longitute, and you cannot go to the island(because it isn't in the same longitude).

Than you need a more stable design. Or maybe use SAS. Or use fine control.

Or just don't use an airplane and use balistic missles instead. If that's to hard, lauch, orbit, and than deorbit to land on the island. Let Mechjeb do the landing for you if THAT is also to hard.

And finally: Practice. First up, see if you can take of, turn around, and land back at KSC somewhere in the grass. Succes? Awesome. Now see if you can align the plane to land on the runway. That works to? AWESOME. Now try the same thing on the island

[Scrogdog]

In addition to what others have said, you want to roll out to your new heading gradually before you are actually there, so you end up about there when you come out of the roll.

What over controlling means is basically that you are trying to achieve stuff too fast, if you see what I mean.

Definitely use fine control (press CAPS). And be gentle.

One more thing, try going past the island further. You may not be giving yourself enough time to align. It should not be a panic situation; give yourself plenty of time.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Scrogdog

[Commissioner Tadpole]

Than you need a more stable design. Or maybe use SAS. Or use fine control.

Or just don't use an airplane and use balistic missles instead. If that's to hard, lauch, orbit, and than deorbit to land on the island. Let Mechjeb do the landing for you if THAT is also to hard.

And finally: Practice. First up, see if you can take of, turn around, and land back at KSC somewhere in the grass. Succes? Awesome. Now see if you can align the plane to land on the runway. That works to? AWESOME. Now try the same thing on the island

I managed to land on the grass but not on the runway. ._.

The thing that catches me on the runway is that my plane always lands unaligned and hits a hill.

[Sirrobert]

I managed to land on the grass but not on the runway. ._.

The thing that catches me on the runway is that my plane always lands unaligned and hits a hill.

The runway runs directly east-west. Align your prograde marker with either east or west, and you'll get right on the ball

[jsfalconero]

Everyone's given good advice. I'm by no means an expert pilot, but I've mucked around enough with SSTO's and Seaplanes to figure out a thing or two. SAS was one thing I'd forgotten. It's immensely helpful, but don't forget that when you make a major attitude adjustment you probably want to hit "f" to reset it, otherwise it will tend to drift back toward your original heading. That's in the air.

When it comes to landing, I wouldn't try for the landing strips straightaway. Instead get the feel of landing by shooting for the plains around KSC. The first thing to master is just 'hitting the ground without HITTING the ground." Once you can reliably land on a flat(ish) plain then it's time to try lining up with the runway and coming in for a landing. Start at KSC (make a short flight out, maybe 15km, then turn around and come back the way you came), try to land from about 1km in altitude (the runway is at around 80km, so bear that in mind) and once you can do that, THEN try for the island runway. The island is rough because it has hills around it, and the strip is about half the length of the KSC runway. I still have trouble with it and I can land a plane on the KSC runway from about 1km out and 30km in altitude (going 1200m/s) but that was foolish to try and I don't recommend doing it.