Just what is the community to SQUAD?

[Javster]

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything until you posted this. I do not bare any ill will to Squad or the developers of KSP, but boy do I feel like they created a PR nightmare here that I honestly feel could have been totally avoided! We can argue the merits of resources and multiplayer until we're blue in the face, and that's fine. We can have debates about which one deserves to be in the game more (for the record I think it's resources, but that's not why I am writing this post), and that's fine too. I think most reasonable people can understand why squad would want to challenge themselves to trying to implement multiplayer, and I think most reasonable people would also understand why squad wants to make sure their resource management mechanic is accessible to everyone. That's all well and good.

What I do NOT think is well and good is this idea that because a mod exists that implements a feature, that it should not be included as part of the stock game. Why shouldn't it? The devs have far more resources available than the modding community, and on top of everything they're getting paid for it. The modding community does what it does because it sees a demand that is being created by the fact that the game is still in development, but as the game develops it is perfectly reasonable to expect that demand to disappear. I can't speak for others on the forum but I myself see mods like Kethane, KAS, and FAR to be *placeholders* for the stock features they are filling in for, not *substitutions*. I hope that distinction is very clear to the developers, bless them all.

I honestly feel like no game should rely on a third party outside of the developers and the intended audience in order to reach the state of gameplay it was supposed to be at to begin with. If you will forgive me for indulging in a slippery slope / strawman argument for a moment, a very respected video game analyst named Jim Sterling (you can catch his segment the Jimquisition at www.escapistmagazine.com) once detailed a phenomenon where triple-A game developers would do an awful job porting console games over to PC with the expectation that third party modders would fix the port's flaws. That is *not* okay! In my own experience, I could tell you the endless frustration I had playing orbiter because I struggled to sort out all the mods I needed for basic features such as sound, high-resolution textures, EVA, and more extraterrestrial bases, but orbiter gets a pass on that because it's a free program only done as a hobby to begin with.

But KSP does not need to, and in fact should not have to rely on third party modders for basic gameplay features! Now, we can argue what constitutes a basic gameplay feature, and I would say that a prime target for this debate would be Mechjeb. I love Mechjeb, and I think it's a very useful mod, but the base game already provides a myriad of tools that allow players to control and guide their own spacecrafts manually so Mechjeb isn't really necessary to complete the gameplay experience. Resources on the other hand do not even have a basic current implementation in the stock game, and so adding them is perfectly reasonable to expect. So you say "well Kethane already does that so why not install Kethane?" Well, I've already explained why games relying on third party support for things they should have done to begin with is not an okay thing, but besides that Kethane adds an entirely new gameplay mechanic rather than just augment or modify an existing one. I hope you can see why this is a completely different thing than Mechjeb simply providing more information and tools to guide your spacecraft from point A to point B which you can already do in the base game.

Ultimately the decision to add resources and/or multiplayer is squad's decision, and if they choose not to add one or the other you can bet there will be a host of mods to fill the demand. That said, I hope my post has made clear why third party modders should never have to do squad's work for them, and rather should create enhancements to existing features that give advanced players more tools to play with. And that's all I really have to say about that.

I wasn't saying that mods should REPLACE features, merely act as a temporary solution to the "problem"

[tntristan12]

I strongly, strongly, strongly disagree with the statement "resource gathering is too grindy for KSP." So is science point gathering, but that mechanic is actually fairly entertaining! Honestly I enjoyed resource gathering with Kethane, and didn't feel like it was grinding at all. Perhaps there is truth to the statement that the initial resource chart released to the community was too complicated, but that doesn't mean it can't be simplified or reworked into something that is more accessible. Just look at Kethane - one of the most popular mods to the game. Expand it to a few resources and make it stock and you'd please a lot of people who don't want to rely on mods for their enjoyment of the game.

[czokletmuss]

About this whole grinding thing - apart from Science system being grindy there are quite a lot popular games pracitcally based on grinding. Farmville and World of Warcraft come to mind. With proper implementation it shouldn't be a problem IMHO.

[tntristan12]

I wasn't saying that mods should REPLACE features, merely act as a temporary solution to the "problem"

Then we are in agreement. There is much rejoicing throughout the kingdom!

[Alguien]

It was a hard pill to swallow but in the end even after all that work we had to admit to ourselves that the feature was not only out of our scope, but was ending up grindy and simply not fun to play with.

So how come science, than is very mechanically similar is in game, is grindy and simply not fun? With the difference than resources are something extra but not obligatory and works in both sandbox and career while science IS obligatory in career mode and pointless in sandbox

[hoojiwana]

We hope you can understand this, and we hope you trust us enough to believe us when we say we want nothing else than for KSP to be the best game it can possibly be. Resources was sadly outside of it.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm finding it pretty hard to trust the devs on anything after they've now gone completely back on themselves on two key game features, as well as showing that they cannot think of solutions to technical problems they declared impossible to be solved without seeing a modder do it first.

[Landwalker]

Seems like it's a bit premature to throw science under the bus considering that 0.23 is ostensibly doing a pretty significant overhaul to how it works... (Not that I don't enjoy it even as-is.)

[PDCWolf]

I really dislike these kind of threads. I consider myself one of those silent majority people. I don't really post much but come to the forums everyday. As you can see my join date is back in the early days, so its been a couple years and i only have like a hundred something posts. Ive seen these little movements happen in KSP and they don't really go over well. The message i think is clear but the way people seem to come across baffles me. I think these things are the cause of Squads PR changes over the last couple years. It cannot be a good thing to have all this negativity when you want something done. Reading this and if I were a dev i would be insulted.

The threads have been kept civil, both mod and users working for that at the same time. Everything posted here, whether right or wrong is valid criticism. Nothing insulting really, unless you consider SQUAD to be a superior entity that can't be treated as a group of humans.

The tone and many of these posts really goes against what Squad has actually done. Calling the community just bugtesters and saying the community doesn't matter to them blah blah. What logic is this? Squad is excellent to this community and continues to be.

Opinion.

Its really frustrating watching these threads go off on tangents while you know it only hurts our chances in the future to get tidbits of info from them. I know for a fact the tone throughout this thread is not helpful for anyone. If a Dev actually started reading this they would probably just stop after seeing some of these absurd comments.

You mean the useful ones or the ones getting deleted because they are not on topic or civil?

I think its why devs lock themselves in castle towers for weeks and just focus. Which sucks because their are some users on here that love reading the goings of the devs but cant get that much from them anymore because some other people have the tendency to get get all bent up when something doesn't go as planned. This is literally all the nature of the beast when making a game. Not everything will go how it was planned. That shouldn't surprise anyone... (To me, these threads are the Bane of my existence on the forums. Its very frustrating to come here to see the awesome plans and the inner workings of this game only to have that reason slowly go away because of a couple fellas that didn't have the patience to see how it works out before throwing people under the bus.

We are discussing the way they communicate to make it better. We are discussing how they should treat the community to make the game even better. And finally, we are giving feedback on the development process.

We could all just be throwing a tantrum and insulting everyone, yet we force ourselves to be civil and polite to discuss these topics.

This I think is the very reason Squad is different then it was. It has to be the reason.... I dont think i could quite take a beating like this thread has thrown and not try to change my interactions in the future so it doesn't happen. Cause and effect. Without this cause i think we would literally still be reading harvesters daily updates. He use to write what he was up to everyday such as when the kerbals started walking (the eva system) and what not, but that ship has long sailed. ARG!!!! He cant do that, because of this. Right. Here. (Second proof read rant added))

They weren't really transparent to begin with, nobody knew what was harvester's vision on KSP or what KSP was supposed to be until not too long ago. Most of the rage comes from their flipping everything 180º and suddenly cancelling a very wanted feature to develop something they said was impossible and not going to be on the game ever.

This thread has so much negativity at Squad. Squad pampers us. Maxmaps gives us daily news on whats happening, heck we get full notes from each dev on what they did that week... We have KSP TV and squad cast Fridays and so much more. What is the issue? All this is literally coming after KerbalKon which they gave us like 48 hours of constant streaming with so much interaction with devs. No game that i know of has this type of development interaction in the world. That is why I have been sticking with it. Its like a full on experience. Whats more if the community members don't like something in the game (or lack their of) then Squad has given us other outs by the ability to heavily mod the game. Each update they usually throw many things in for the modders. It is seriously possible to add this resource system that everyone is complaining about. I think all of the fellas making such a fuss need to relax. Lets get a grip and look at the situation (Situation being listed at the top of this paragraph).

Opinion. Coincidentally, a lot of people seem to think different and don't think the dev notes are full, or detailed, or the announcements are useful at all. That's why more transparency is being demanded.

On top of all this, the major complaint i think im taking away from this thread is the gripes about resources. Have the complainers actually watched the video? I saw it and my take from it was this:

They began exploring the resources system.

They got so far on it that they sent a screenshot of it during a squadcast.

Somewhere along the line it became clear that the system being developed (in its current form) was not what the dev team desired.

Since the dev team didnt like the resource system (in its current form) they put it on back burner.

Other priorities are being implemented before they come back to the resource system.

Resource system will be something different then before likely easier and better thought out.

Opinion, on top of that it collides with hard facts. Also, this is not the resources thread.

Now to me, i dont see what is wrong with what they did. They started making the system and didn't like it. Clearly they arent going to release what was...because it was not what they liked. To me it seems like the complainers are seeing the above like squad is just flat out dropping resources which was not what was said. And if they dont think that then they are upset over the fact that they liked what the screenshot contained and are upset that it wont be included like it was but stock. And if you saw the screenshot they released in 0.19, i dont see what is stopping a modder from putting it in. Squad clearly didn't like the system so they arnt going to make that stock.

If you read before commenting you would realize the rage comes from them flipping out, not for not developing resources on itself. Also, for that "YOU HAVE LE MOD XD" argument, we also have KMP, so there's no reason to develop stock multiplayer either.

I think a lot of this energy would be better served if the people would get together and make a mod instead of flat out insulting the developers of the game for not doing something they already did but didn't like (If that makes sense). At the very least i would hope my post brings some perspective to people. Its not all lost for a resource system and i guarantee the devs are thinking of better stuff more to their liking.

Back to the same, "THERE'S A MOD FOR IT" is not a valid argument since they cancelled resources and developed multiplayer, both features already having a mod for them.

although I haven't been here as long as most of you (joined in 0.18.2), I've been around long enough to say that this is the most negativity I've ever seen on the forums, made even worse by the fact that we have only just stopped celebrating the game's third birthday and everyone here has seemed to devolve in to a fan base similar to that of the one that arose after halo 4 was released.

Well, we just aren't hating things out of the blue, we are reacting, which means there was an action.

for one thing, unless I've missed something SQUAD has never said that they are ditching resources and I think the vast majority of you under estimate just how hard it may be to code. also, the game is still relatively early in development and the dev's are constantly updating the games unity engine, so what's possible with the game is always changing and with the new KMP mod, SQUAD's chimp head will almost certainly be drawn towards multiplayer.

Underestimate the dev time my back. They got it developed to the point they could play-test it to say "it's not fun". For the "there's a mod for it" argument please scroll up a bit.

I think we need a bit more perspective here. KSP has never been about resources, its been about jeb, explosions, the steep learning curve, the satisfaction when you progress up that learning curve when you finally orbit or land on the moon. Its about exploration, management and the inexplicable beauty of the cosmos. If anything, I believe that resources are almost definitely not needed and will most likely break the game, making it too easy for missions, even making eve a piece of cake. coming from only a couple of days ago when we were celebrating all things Kerbal, I think a few new people may have joined this community who we just don't want and are going to turn the other community members against their beloved game.

No, wrong. KSP is not about jeb or explosions. KSP is about helping little green men in their conquest of space. The community sucking bad at making rockets got along with the placeholder "funny" descriptions.

the game is doing great and I don't want it spoiled.

Opinion.

"Simply spouting hate" means you didn't read a single thing on any of the multiple threads going on.

There was a development roadmap which said "Resources, then science, then career", and now it got flipped over to "career first, then multiplayer" which has nothing to do with the original plan.

Whew! This topic has been quite the read! I'm not surprised the topic is getting so much attention but I do find it a bit sad. I guess a lot of this would have been deflected if people were playing 0.23 right now, though I guess there's no way to really know. My contribution is simply a few observations which have come up over my reading.

Not really. This would have deflected if they remained silent about resources (people would still have hope of it coming eventually).

First off is the 'remember how good things were before? now they are RUINED' mentality. Yeah, remember back in 0.19 when we didn't have career mode, there was no science, SAS was a hard, stuttering lock and Bac9 hadn't redone the KSC? Unless the game is going pay-to-win some time in the future, the game has done nothing but get better with each patch. It isn't native to this game, people tend to put rose colored glasses on for the past for reasons I guess were summed up in Watchmen, "Every day, the future looks a little bit darker. But the past, even the grimy parts of it, keep on getting brighter." It's a dumb sentiment unless a plague is currently wiping us out, the future is unanimously better than the past. The poorest person today is better off than the poorest person a hundred years ago. KSP is better now than it was ten patches ago.

Well, those ten patches took years, if it didn't get better in that time, then nobody would be here, except for 10 or 20 hardcore blind fans.

Regarding the fear of future development: is it just me or is this a case of 'missing the big picture'? So, Felipe says, "Look, we have to focus on what is going to make KSP a good game first and add cosmetic stuff later." You wanted resources? You thought they were great? You HAVE Kethane.

You want multiplayer? You think it is great? You HAVE kmp. (Really guys, think before writing such arguments).

I want clouds, and rbay89 was so kind as to give them to us. It's clear Squad is going to focus on career mode first and foremost, multiplayer is end of development stuff. They said they'll probably implement some back end as they go along but first and foremost is completing the game. Here's my tea leaves: We know two things, the owners said they wanted to have KerbalKon next year, which supports we'll see another year of development at least and that the versioning scheme has been ticked up .01 per patch. If this is any indication to go off of, it looks to me like they expect to do quite a bit more development and aren't entirely flying by the seat of their pants. There is one bit of information being glossed over, probably because the 'victors' don't really think of it in terms of a potential problem.

The uncertainty in development comes from what I already named enough times: 180º turn on the roadmap.

The debacle about post-release DLC or expansions and how the people who bought in early got approval to get everything free forever! I don't know about you, but it looks like the community has been able to strong-arm Squad before, and it's likely why they are as hesitant now as they are to watch what they say. The game is new, it's expanding and the developers want to share what's going on. I mean, they are human, they are just as excited about what they do as we are. Developer tweets from indie studios has reached a fevered pitch. Now, I'm not going to debate whether or not one side was right or wrong on this one, but you have to examine the implications of it. Squad said something, tried to change their mind and ultimately were forced into a position to comply. I believe them when they say this was not a pleasant experience for them, and I'm sure that was their first real 'wake-up' call: shut the hell up or get burned at the stake.

Well, they really need to control what they say. They are talking to people that love the game as much as they do, so saying things out of the blue without really studying them (such as mentioning DLC on twitch chat out of nowhere) was something really dumb. Transparency is good, impulsiveness is not.

So, in closing, I'd like to address the resources chart. This may be news to some but Squad has LOTS of those charts lying around. They have written a TON of stuff down, discussed and planned many features they ultimately pushed off or are still finding ways to address. If they shared every design with us, our heads would explode. I'm sure they've played around with the idea of crafting or hats at some point. If you feel betrayed, please think of it this way : you are not the only person in the room. The player base expanded. Much as gaming has exploded over the last decade and casual gaming has become the norm, traditional (now referred to as 'core') gamers are in the minority. As KSP's number of users grow, the idea of what it should be or where it should go has also expanded. Just because you were here first doesn't mean that you know best, or that you own the game. Your share has been dwindling with each new purchase or forum sign-up. Whereas you are only selfish enough to see how you want the game to be, Squad has to distill community interest and see how it mixes with their own interest.

It's not the chart, really. Do read the threads before presenting invalid arguments. They got resources up to a playtesting/nearly release point and decided it was not funny. It was not a dream floating on harv's head, it was something pretty much finished.

"Because [insert your feature here] is the feature KSP deserves, but not the one it needs right now."

Divide it in 2: Resources is what KSP deserves. Multiplayer is what it doesn't need right now (or pretty much anytime before release).

Also I think Squad mostly does what it thinks will be fun, and if you can't enjoy your work I don't want to play anymore.

The mistake coming from they being the ones saying "it's not fun" instead of letting the "great community" you guys talk about test the feature.

Just go with whatever you're given. Be grateful you have an already good game to play. Plenty of mods adds the stuff you're asking for (to an extent)

No, thank you. I gave them my money and impliedly agreed to them taking it and running away. I'm going to fight for the game I invested in, for it getting complete and for it being full of those promises they made to me when I gave them my money. If you want to take what ever they throw at you and treat them as gods, you are welcome, but don't spread that cancerous mentality.

(The situation would be totally different if the game was free, obviously)

[Liowen]

The alpha concept is veeeery much abused in the late years (not talking specifically about KSP, a general trend).

Besides, when people complains, some get shushed because "you already got your game, the devs do not owe you anything", but on the other hand, when somebody complains they get shushed because "you must understand it is still an alpha/beta".

Well, it is one or the other, but not both. I am personally of the opinion that my money was 1.0, and that gives me some right to ask for more, not to get silenced with either lame excuse.

Go back and read the ELUA, you CAN complain, yell, and scream all you want at the end of the day they have the final word on what they want in their game. I am in no way saying you cannot do anything you want to do, but after awhile you will either like the product or not. Personally at the price I paid for mine I would rather be unhappy with a game that is not finish yet, than say companies like EA, Blizzard, and other who charge $60+ and release games that need fixing after the fact. Also there are other ways then carrying on over the same issues like a child who has not gotten their way, look objectively from SQUAD's stand point as well. Do you honestly feel that there are not more important areas of the game that need more attention? Would you want a half finished resources system to go with the half finished science system in career mode? Would you like those things over improvements to performance and the randomly blowing up ships? Could you imagine you just collected all the science you could and on your way to drop it off your ship randomly disappears cause not only the loss of the science, but all the rep you had as well? In turn this makes further missions in your career useless since you exhausted all other avenues to get more science, and you cannot go to those that would give more due to the massive rep hit.

Also most alphas are not like this, most you have to test a certain area, task, or whatever is being done that day.....that's it. once the test day is done the game is not available anymore (even single player ones are very limited). Not to mention I put a lot more money into another game that isn't even in internal testing yet, so maybe that is why I have a bit more patience for this than most. The money spent is not because I want to play the game, well maybe some, but more that I believe in the product and want to see it happen. As far as the money put into this game it might be about .0001% compared to what investors have put forth, as well as SQUAD themselves.

[Landwalker]

If you read before commenting you would realize the rage comes from them flipping out, not for not developing resources on itself.

As someone who is generally disconnected and only gets information from the forums, this is the first I've heard of a "flipping out" on the SQUAD side. Can you provide a link/source for that so I can cease residing in the dark on that?

[Liowen]

Right from the Terms of service:

Please keep in mind:

Squad is not under any obligation to release any updates, expansions or titles at any time. Each release may very well be the last one.

Squad is under no obligation to implement any given set of features prior to the final release for KSP or any future title. All posted lists of planned features are unofficial and do not imply a promise by Squad to deliver anything listed in them.

Squad reserves the right to add, remove and modify content on any of its software at their own discretion, without prior notice.

Squad is under no obligation to maintain any level of communication with the player community, choosing to do so at their own discretion.

The minimum hardware specifications are posted for reference purposes only. KSP is a work-in-progress, and as such, may not perform as expected under any given hardware configuration.

The Software is made available as-is, and may contain bugs and/or manifest undesirable behaviour. Squad does not guarantee any level of stability or performance for the Software, and takes no responsibility in the event of data loss or damage ocurred as a direct or indirect result of using the software. Use at your own risk.

Also EULA point 5 is a good one to read as well..

[PDCWolf]

In case anyone here wants to know what Squad actually thinks about your opinions:

I wouldn't really call max "all of squad". I do believe he was a victim of misinformation and that made him "lie" (which for me he really wasn't, he just got caught on misinformation or changed plans and ended up relaying those to the community), and so, I won't really trust him as saying the total truth.

[tntristan12]

I wouldn't really call max "all of squad". I do believe he was a victim of misinformation and that made him "lie" (which for me he really wasn't, he just got caught on misinformation or changed plans and ended up relaying those to the community), and so, I won't really trust him as saying the total truth.

That's a pretty disrespectful thing to say. Maxmaps is doing his best to calm the situation until a more formal word is released on Monday (or Tuesday but I really hope not). We're not going to get any formal word during the weekend when Squad's offices are closed, so just be patient.

[ddavis425]

Seems like it's a bit premature to throw science under the bus considering that 0.23 is ostensibly doing a pretty significant overhaul to how it works... (Not that I don't enjoy it even as-is.)

I don't think that making a new science module to get more data counts as a "significant overhaul". If you have watched any 0.23 videos you would see that it is more or less the same old grind.

[czokletmuss]

In case anyone here wants to know what Squad actually thinks about your opinions:

Huh? Where did you take this from?

[Liowen]

No, thank you. I gave them my money and impliedly agreed to them taking it and running away. I'm going to fight for the game I invested in, for it getting complete and for it being full of those promises they made to me when I gave them my money. If you want to take what ever they throw at you and treat them as gods, you are welcome, but don't spread that cancerous mentality.

(The situation would be totally different if the game was free, obviously)

Straight from the Terms of service (You know that thing you clicked accept on without fully reading?) Here is what you are entitled to in plain Egnlish

Please keep in mind:

Squad is not under any obligation to release any updates, expansions or titles at any time. Each release may very well be the last one.

Squad is under no obligation to implement any given set of features prior to the final release for KSP or any future title. All posted lists of planned features are unofficial and do not imply a promise by Squad to deliver anything listed in them.

Squad reserves the right to add, remove and modify content on any of its software at their own discretion, without prior notice.

Squad is under no obligation to maintain any level of communication with the player community, choosing to do so at their own discretion.

The minimum hardware specifications are posted for reference purposes only. KSP is a work-in-progress, and as such, may not perform as expected under any given hardware configuration.

The Software is made available as-is, and may contain bugs and/or manifest undesirable behaviour. Squad does not guarantee any level of stability or performance for the Software, and takes no responsibility in the event of data loss or damage ocurred as a direct or indirect result of using the software. Use at your own risk.

https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/terms.php Just in case you think you want proof of the information provided above. Remember this is a legal contract and by hitting accept you agreed to the terms of service....

[Landwalker]

I don't think that making a new science module to get more data counts as a "significant overhaul". If you have watched any 0.23 videos you would see that it is more or less the same old grind.

Perhaps. I have not watched any videos (I don't really have time to follow along with all of the released information on all of the various media, so I generally rely on the forum's community discussions to stay up to speed with what's going on). Perhaps because of that lack of exposure on my end, I'm not in any rush to pass judgment on the 0.23 science, as I haven't actually seen it yet.

That said, I enjoy 0.22 science as well, so I suppose my tolerance for and/or definition of "grindy" may not be in sync with others'. And I'm okay with that; that's just how it goes sometimes.

[PDCWolf]

Straight from the Terms of service (You know that thing you clicked accept on without fully reading?) Here is what you are entitled to in plain Egnlish

Please keep in mind:

Squad is not under any obligation to release any updates, expansions or titles at any time. Each release may very well be the last one.

Squad is under no obligation to implement any given set of features prior to the final release for KSP or any future title. All posted lists of planned features are unofficial and do not imply a promise by Squad to deliver anything listed in them.

Squad reserves the right to add, remove and modify content on any of its software at their own discretion, without prior notice.

Squad is under no obligation to maintain any level of communication with the player community, choosing to do so at their own discretion.

The minimum hardware specifications are posted for reference purposes only. KSP is a work-in-progress, and as such, may not perform as expected under any given hardware configuration.

The Software is made available as-is, and may contain bugs and/or manifest undesirable behaviour. Squad does not guarantee any level of stability or performance for the Software, and takes no responsibility in the event of data loss or damage ocurred as a direct or indirect result of using the software. Use at your own risk.

https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/terms.php Just in case you think you want proof of the information provided above. Remember this is a legal contract and by hitting accept you agreed to the terms of service....

Did you even read what I wrote? I say that I agreed to this, but that that doesn't mean I'm not going to fight for what I was promised and what I want the game to be.

Edited December 15, 2013 by PDCWolf
muh grammar

[SpaceHips]

Reminder that just saying you can do something don't make it right.

[I Faw Down]

Huh? Where did you take this from?

You have a polandball avatar and you don't know where that's from?

[NovaSilisko]

Gonna have to also disagree with the "it's too grindy" sentiment... we can't really know if it's grindy yet considering the only playable example of resources that's ever been around has been kethane, and that's vastly different from what the resources system would've been.

[tntristan12]

I would just like to point out that just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean people aren't going to call you out on it, if it creates a divide between you and them. Squad has given themselves a contractual out, but that doesn't mean that ignoring the community and bullheadedly pursuing a path that is generally unpopular isn't going to impact the popular opinion of the game. It is their right to do whatever they want to the game to be sure, but if people stop supporting their development and spreading the word of how good the game is that's not in their best interest either. It's a tricky tightrope they walk on right now.

EDIT:

Reminder that just saying you can do something don't make it right.

Damn! You ninja'd me.

[PDCWolf]

Huh? Where did you take this from?

The trolls' lair as it is defined by people from here. 4chan.

Edited December 15, 2013 by PDCWolf

[tntristan12]

Gonna have to also disagree with the "it's too grindy" sentiment... we can't really know if it's grindy yet considering the only playable example of resources that's ever been around has been kethane, and that's vastly different from what the resources system would've been.

Ah Nova. It's good to see you throwing your hat into the mix. Hey, I know you're not a dev any more but what do you think about the recent official position? You've had more exposure with the dev team than any of us.

[czokletmuss]

The trolls' lair as it is defined by people from here.

What, 4chan? Seriously, where is it from? I get my polandballs from reddit.