Rotate the island runway, add multiple runways/landing sites and recovery costs

[zakkpaz]

when budget management enters the game it seems likely the vessel recovery should cost money, but i figure two runways on the whole planet would make this less fun then it could be so i figure there should be number places like the KSC runway where spaceplane recovery would be lower. capsules capsules would cost more to recover but you get a large radius around these runways to land with the lower cost. the runways themselves could be more or less the same as the KSC runway maybe some as individual runways and others with multiple runways that crisscross (what do you call it when they do that).most of all I'd like to have a dry lake bed in the desert.

as for the island runway it and some of the new runways should be facing north south so space planes can land from a polar orbit without a huge momentum losing turn, or so we can use the huge momentum loss at either runway to make easier to slow down for an alternate landing if you overshoot either runway.

EDIT: I accidentally a word

Edited December 17, 2013 by zakkpaz

[S4qFBxkFFg]

With the current state of the game, there's no wind and it's pretty easy to land on any type of flattish terrain, so "extra" runways aren't actually necessary. I'd like this to change though, so that when you use the basic landing gear, you have to use a flatter, hard surface (this could even be a dry lake bed, like in the picture above) and land without any significant sideways speed or Bad Things * might happen. The likelihood of an accident would depend on the speed and angle the wheels are moving at while in contact with the ground, and what biome (grassland/beach being safer than mountains/highlands).

Then, you would start to need things like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_space_shuttle_landing_sites . So, you could either start off with alternative runways or pay to have them built in player-defined locations.

Once weather makes its way into the game, that'll be another reason to have multiple runways of different direction at the same location - bring it on!

* for example:

Small Gear Bay collided with ditch / herd of kows / sand dune / herd of kamels / igloo... (select at random based on biome)

Structural failure between Small Gear Bay and Mk1 Fuselage

etc. etc., parts everywhere, crew still alive in cockpit if you're lucky

[peadar1987]

I think alternate runways and launch sites would make things a little interesting (although it might make exploring Kerbin and gathering science a little less of a challenge, maybe you'd have to "discover" the inland space centre, the island runway, desert airstrip, Ice Station Kebra... before you could launch from there?)

[Murph]

most of all I'd like to have a dry lake bed in the desert.

Given that we're dealing with little green men, Groom Lake might be more appropriate than Edwards.

I do support the idea of having a KSP equivalent of Vandenberg, Edwards, etc. Purchasing, building, and expanding, and maintaining the additional facilities could be an interesting addition to career mode.

I'm less convinced about needing the historical triangular runway pattern. Triangular aerodromes were for an era where planes had insufficient power to operate crosswind, and much less sophisticated navigation instruments. In the modern jet era, they are no longer really required, with organisations such as the RAF considering them deprecated to the point of closing or shortening the extra runways and building on them, in some cases, and moving to "modern main instrument". The change in velocity isn't actually all that large, as you don't need to do it until turning onto final approach at low level and speed. That said, I've no real objection to alternate runway headings, just don't see them as a big benefit.

A much bigger priority to me, is to give KSC a much longer runway, and get rid of the stupidly tall light boxes on the thresholds. The runway is annoyingly short and limiting for large, heavy aircraft.

[peadar1987]

Given that we're dealing with little green men, Groom Lake might be more appropriate than Edwards.

I do support the idea of having a KSP equivalent of Vandenberg, Edwards, etc. Purchasing, building, and expanding, and maintaining the additional facilities could be an interesting addition to career mode.

I'm less convinced about needing the historical triangular runway pattern. Triangular aerodromes were for an era where planes had insufficient power to operate crosswind, and much less sophisticated navigation instruments. In the modern jet era, they are no longer really required, with organisations such as the RAF considering them deprecated to the point of closing or shortening the extra runways and building on them, in some cases, and moving to "modern main instrument". The change in velocity isn't actually all that large, as you don't need to do it until turning onto final approach at low level and speed. That said, I've no real objection to alternate runway headings, just don't see them as a big benefit.

A much bigger priority to me, is to give KSC a much longer runway, and get rid of the stupidly tall light boxes on the thresholds. The runway is annoyingly short and limiting for large, heavy aircraft.

Well KSP's navigation instruments for planes are hardly advanced: "eyeball position of runway, get it 5 degrees off, cartwheel into a crumpled ball of metal and death"...

Which reminds me, I'd love to see better landing indicators for planes, tell you when you're lined up with the runway and the like.

[jwenting]

why does every other suggestion have to come down to "make KSP less accessible, make it harder for new players to get into, turn it into something only us few veterans can enjoy"?

[Murph]

Well KSP's navigation instruments for planes are hardly advanced: "eyeball position of runway, get it 5 degrees off, cartwheel into a crumpled ball of metal and death"...

Which reminds me, I'd love to see better landing indicators for planes, tell you when you're lined up with the runway and the like.

Yeah, adding some sort of ILS or runway targeting is something which should definitely be in the long term plans. The trick I use myself is to plant a flag at each end of the runway, on the grass, as a very crude runway position and alignment indicator. That, and MechJeb's ILS target marker.

why does every other suggestion have to come down to "make KSP less accessible, make it harder for new players to get into, turn it into something only us few veterans can enjoy"?

I don't see anything above that really comes close to that, to be honest. We're talking about adding features which could easily be ignored by newbies, and add to the overall richness of KSP. I could just as easily say "why does every other suggestion end up with someone crying that it will be too difficult for newbies, so shouldn't be done?".

[Kilmeister]

I believe this could fall into the "Upgrading" KSC idea that they have talked about. One of the purchases for upgrading KSC could be an entirely new space center. Being able to pick a spot yourself would be cool, but it would probably be easier if multiple sites were setup and you could choose one.