did they change the drag/weight model or something?

[Franklin]

either that or they nerfed the built-in pod SASes. since 0.23 I'm not able to tilt as aggressively as i used to mid-launch, and even with SAS enabled my rocket will flip itself so the heaviest end is pointing forward. has anyone else noticed this? maybe i missed a crucial thread on it.

[Taki117]

Define forward, because that particular direction is relative. If the heavy end (where all you engines should be) begins to point pro grade (I.e your command pod begins pointing retrograde) you have issues with too much thrust and not enough control. (Pitch beyond a certain point and the rocket does the rest of the work, resulting in a lawn dart)

[Franklin]

Well the flip was on re-entry, so there was no thrust. i was falling retrograde and the rocket flipped (tanks were empty throughout) to prograde, so the capsule was facing forward. SAS was on the entire time.

[Taki117]

Its possible that they changed drag, this could also happen if you have lifting surfaces near the engines (causing more drag on that part of the ship). Also, FAR srastically changes the aerodynamics, so if you have that installed that could be the culprit.

[Franklin]

No mods installed beyond EditorExtensions, and I had only level 1 parts unlocked, so no lifting surfaces, either. Anyway, it was actually kind of nice to see some more environmental interaction, I just didn't see any notice of a change so I wanted to verify.

[Lone K.]

It could be that command pods have some RCS units in them now (which may be causing the change in weight problem in recent threads), but I can't say for sure.

[CalculusWarrior]

Try loading up the .craft file in 0.22 and attempt a reentry. See if you still flip.

[Franklin]

yeah i didn't make a 0.22 backup so that's not an option. i think they changed the munar gravity, too, cause jumping is hilarious there now.

[SRV Ron]

There may have been a change in aerodynamic since some Career Mode designs from 0.22 are now quite tippy in powered flight. Tier 0 designs are also more prone to falling apart on landing or losing a chute.

And, before updating or downloading, make a backup of your KSP 0.22, remove all mods and saves from the original install, then update it. Mods can be added later as they get updated.

[Azoth]

I'm pretty sure something was changed, though I really ain't sure what. Throttle seems a bit more sluggish now, and the craft I was using perfectly fine yesterday before the update was having a lot more trouble gaining speed after.

[Skorpychan]

After just one flight, I've definitely noticed a difference. My heavy lifter tends to wander a little around the straight up position, and doesn't gravity turn as easily.

[KerrMü]

Maybe your ship ran out of power, and SAS wasn´t working anymore?

[Kilmeister]

Something in the flight model has definitely changed, but I can't pinpoint it.

[Franklin]

I've now tested it with MechJeb as well, just to see if I was doing something wrong, and because I can track the attempted ascent path node, and MechJeb has similar issues gravity turning when its otherwise planned to.

[rampage]

There seems to be a more dynamic correlation between pitching/yaw/roll, I realized that during a parachute landing with one of my crafts that instead of being perfectly still with SAS on it was actually swaying a bit.

[WafflesToo]

They definitely made a change to the drag model. My Kerbin lander unit used to be able to "dead-stick" tail-first on reentry, with the 0.23 update I need to keep SAS enabled or it wants to turn nose-first.

[Specialist290]

One minor change they did make was adding small Monopropellant reserves to most capsules. This might have changed their mass enough to alter the CoM of any craft they're attached to.

Since we now have the tweakables system in place, you could empty all your pods and cockpits of monoprop and see if flying an "empty" capsule makes a difference.

[Franklin]

Skeptical that's the reason. It's such a tiny reserve of propellant that it shouldn't make a noticeable difference. And it's on thrust as well as during a dead fall. Can't tilt as dramatically during liftoff anymore, or rather there's an increasingly resistant barrier to tilting beyond a certain degree during launch.

[WafflesToo]

Lets see, what's the density of monoprop? 200 units per ton? The entire lander masses about 1.7 tons, I don't think the 0.005t of propellant would matter much but I'll try it anyway.

I honestly think they made the drag model more realistic. I still have a copy of 0.22 loaded, I might do some testing when I get home.

[tavert]

I honestly think they made the drag model more realistic. I still have a copy of 0.22 loaded, I might do some testing when I get home.

I find it hard to believe that major of a change would not be mentioned in the changelog. What I do see in settings.cfg is that the default value of MAX_PHYSICS_DT_PER_FRAME is now 0.1, where it used to be 0.03. I suspect this could account for more of the subjective change in feel than anything else I've seen.

[WafflesToo]

Tried it again tonight and the capsule dead-sticked into the wind like it always did in 0.22; no SAS or input needed. Might have been a phantom-force glitch I was experiencing the other night (the goo canisters might have been clipped into the parachute slightly, 0.23 seems like it's touchier about that than 0.21 or 0.22 were).

[jedensuscg]

I have had some bad experienced with tech 0 and 1 craft since .23. Rockets that should fly pretty straight flip like crazy. I have been unable to gravity turn before 20km, as as first any rocket would just spin at several G's the moment I even thought of pointing it away from prograde. I finally started throwing some more weight in the tail and this stopped the flipping, but can't get any rotation out of it.

I also noticed that when I do get a good design, even point at 90 degrees, the rocket's prograde barely changes. I can do a gravity turn for a solid 15-20 seconds and my rocket still flies straight up with barely any movement of my prograde marker until I get into orbit, in which case it will appear in a random position that is not even inline with my burn.

in .22 both with and without FAR, I never had a problem with getting basic rockets into orbit. Now, I can't even get on into LKO and my gravity turn is doing nothing so I hit 150K+ apoapsis and my flight path almost straight up and down despite trying to do a gravity turn.