Tech suggestion: efficiency

[jalapen0]

Hello,

Not sure how many of you have played Paradox grand strategy games? I am suggesting adding an idea they use for thier tech tree. Efficiencies. For certain tech throughout the tech tree, why not add some efficiency bonuses, in addition to parts? This will give us something else to look forward to. For instance, when you get Stability, you should get a +1% SAS efficiency (1% increase in control). When you get Fuel Systems, you should get a +1% in fuel efficiency. These bonuses would be stackable. So if you got a 1% fuel efficiency 3 times, you actually have a 3% savings in fuel.

It's just a suggestion and something additional to look foward to in the tech tree.

[richiespeed13]

This idea sounds nice, but I would say it should be done in a "science!" kind of way. Rather than magical bonuses in the tech tree, maybe we can pay money/allocate budget, (in future versions), into technology development, which can improve things such as fuel efficiency, SAS control, and many other things.

As long as this game never stops evolving I think the future is very bright and full of potential for cool stuff like this.

[jalapen0]

Ok, I think I get it. Instead of adding to the current tech tree, we could have a Parts Tree, and then a seperate efficiency investment area. We can choose to spend our points and get more parts, or we can choose to spend points on efficiency. Maybe the first 10 points buy you 1% efficiency in an area. Then the next 1% would cost you 15. The 3rd time, it'll cost 22, etc. So a 3% bonus would cost 47 points and continue on a reduced return on investment, forever.

[Paul Kingtiger]

I'd love to see something like this. Example: lightweight materials can be unlocked to make all parts 10% lighter. It essentially gives you who new parts without having to add more clutter. You can do the same for engine ISP or max thrust.

[JimmyAgent007]

Since there is way more science than we need in the game to max out the tree it would make a kind of sense. But I also see this as a major issue for some people that think changing part values is cheating. I think it would be very important to balance things correctly. I dont want to see default parts values being nerfed to make their current values the best, or have them considered overpowered after all the upgrades.

[richiespeed13]

Since there is way more science than we need in the game to max out the tree it would make a kind of sense. But I also see this as a major issue for some people that think changing part values is cheating. I think it would be very important to balance things correctly. I dont want to see default parts values being nerfed to make their current values the best, or have them considered overpowered after all the upgrades.

Very valid post.

For sure this is something that would need to be looked at carefully before implementation.

And I totally agree about there being far more science in the solar system than you need to unlock the science trees. For sure this needs to change to make science a far more valuable resource, and so that after unlocking the whole tree, (which is too easy at the moment in my opinion), there are infinite things to spend science on.

[Luckless]

Since there is way more science than we need in the game to max out the tree it would make a kind of sense. But I also see this as a major issue for some people that think changing part values is cheating. I think it would be very important to balance things correctly. I dont want to see default parts values being nerfed to make their current values the best, or have them considered overpowered after all the upgrades.

But it wouldn't be 'cheating', it would be a designed in-game mechanic that functions according to a set of clear rules.

Maybe even go with a 3 tier system. Current 'parts' tech tree, and a 'science and technology' tech tree for things like fuels, materials, and electronics (improved/lighter/stronger materials, smaller/faster electronic systems). Unlocking stuff in 'science and technology' then reduces the cost of unlocking stuff in 'parts' across the board. (S&T becomes an investment, while parts is 'instant' payoff. Do you invest now and keep working with the parts you have, or unlock parts now at a higher cost?)

The third part to it could be 'enhanced engineering', which allows you access to a third tree that cross ties Science and Technology with Parts. This would be your overall mass reductions and performance enhancement. "Do I want the lighter faster basic engine, or do I want the bigger engine but with no bonuses?"

[Kilmeister]

As long as the bonuses are small (<5%) it's a great idea. The Interstellar mod does something like this. where parts become better as you advance up the tech tree. But think even large bonuses would be a viable thing as long as they can only be unlocked after you've completed the entire tech tree.

[lazarus1024]

It would be nice to see at some point. As several mention, there is a lot more science than you actually need to unlock everything right now and I assume more Biomes will be added in the future.

I do assume more parts and possibly more branchs/steps will be added in the future (hopefully).

It would be nice to see other options on the tree or a seperate tree for things like efficiency improvements.

As mentioned, I'd keep them very small, but they could still be meaningful.

For example, lightweight parts reduce mass by 2% at first level, another 2% at second level and 1% and third level. Maybe better turbocompressors increase thrust by 2% at tier 1, 2 and 3. Better nozzels increase all engine ISP by 1% at tier 1, 2 and 3. Better solar panel materials increase energy gathering by 5% at tier 1, 2 and 3. Better battery chemistry increase battery storage by 10% at tier 1, 2 and 3.

They wouldn't have to be cheap to unlock, say 50 science points for tier 1, 150 for tier 2 and 450 for tier 3.

It would be vaguely realistic too as materials sciences and others, like computational fluid dynamics improve designs over time.

[richiespeed13]

+1

Also, once money is involved, we can start investing budget into technology developments, rather than science. But I think there needs to be an infinite use for science, so once the tree is complete, we need to still be able to spend science somewhere.

[arq]

I have thought similar thoughts before, and like the general idea. My main concern is that ships would no longer be 'what you see is what you get'. Right now, assuming one hasn't manually modified .cfg's, you can look at a rocket and replicate it and know it's performance exactly. With such changes, you could be stuck wondering 'now which level fuel tank is that?' The changes would likely be small, but there could still be cases where that could push something past a threshold.

[I_Killed_Jeb]

I have thought similar thoughts before, and like the general idea. My main concern is that ships would no longer be 'what you see is what you get'. Right now, assuming one hasn't manually modified .cfg's, you can look at a rocket and replicate it and know it's performance exactly. With such changes, you could be stuck wondering 'now which level fuel tank is that?' The changes would likely be small, but there could still be cases where that could push something past a threshold.

Perhaps the part aesthetic can change just so slightly to indicate an upgraded version, like a stripe of paint or something?

[GarageBay9]

I think it would be neat, once costs are implemented for parts, to have a hybrid system where you can spend a little science to research different efficiency upgrades for parts, and then you can spend a scalable premium to upgrade the quality of certain attributes on a part by a certain percent (up to a limit).

Being able to spend a premium to decrease weight, increase thrust, or boost fuel-consumption efficiency would be killer for really tight rocket building. It might also make it feasible to get ship designs working that are just under the efficiency curve with current parts - but you'd have to pay the extra.

Right now I'm trying to make a SSTO dropship spaceplane that can also hover and land vertically to pick up mining base components and move them around. Besides fighting with the thrust-vectoring issues to just keep it in the air and controllable, the biggest issue I'm running into is that I'm just below where I need to be on the TWR and fuel consumption curve to make it work. The vertical ascent engines can lift it but eat too much fuel, and the forward flight engines (using RAPIERs right now, tried a few others) don't have quite enough thrust.

[Audiopulse]

Heres another possible approach. Parts themselves "level up" by usage. Parts often used on ships would eventually improve in their stats. Get lighter, more efficient or even gain new abilities.

As a result you would have new reasons to redo missions with parts you havent used much before, to improve on them. You might even have a reason to do some simple orbits or moonshots to prepare for a larger endeaver you had thougt of.