What is the point of the Lab module?

[Puck Man]

Today I started up KSP to continue my career, I am at the point where modules need 160 to unlock. I made an unmanned probe and sent it to Duna, only to realise that it is practically useless. The Lab is needed to reset experiments, basically rendering unmanned missions useless and severely slowing the pace of progression. People early on the career are basically crippled, even if they unlock it it is not an easy part to carry around. Progression has slowed to a crawl with the Goo and Materials bay, the most basic instruments, needing the Lab if you are to have more than one use out of them. Sending a Lab along with every mission is not easy, nor is making every mission able to return. But I would let these slide if the lab was what it was heralded to be

''The mobile processing lab was developed to help increase the amount of science we're able to do in the field. Instead of needing to haul samples all the way back to Kerbin, the mobile lab will allow you to process these samples on site!''

All it does though is provide a small bonus that is not worth the trouble that comes with it.

Basically unmanned missions are pointless and though the Lab may have succeeded in preventing players from progressing too fast, it has forced them to grind endlessly unless they are skilled enough to somewhat reduce it and that kills the experience for casual players and begginers.

What are your thoughts on this? Am I wrong? How do you use the Lab?

[SkyRender]

I use the lab as an extremely large vacuum cleaner to clean out the materials bay and goo canisters, so I can have my Kerbals harvest the Mun for all of its science. It works very well in that regard: you can easily net over 9000 science just from one trip to the Mun if you plan it out properly.

[jordanjay29]

There's already a topic discussing this. On the board page when I looked, it's literally the topic under yours. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/62336-23-Just-not-getting-the-progression-path-for-science-labs

Many such opinions have already been expressed. Read through and add yours.

[technion]

People early on the career are basically crippled

To comment on this moreso than your original question, I saw it as cheap that people on Tier 0 were building massive probes to go and survey the half the solar system on the first launch. The new transmit system makes this unuseful. Yes you can still do it, but it max out the tree for you. I've made three trips to the Mun and two to Minmus in my new career mode - both of which are places I'd only been once in my large sandbox game. And they are actually enjoyable now, as opposed to me just saying "well I haven't left the Kerbin system yet.. that sucks".

[FlamedSteak]

I haven't used it yet, do you need Kerbs to man the lab?

[Puck Man]

I agree that the game has much more meaning and, heck, I found exploring Kerbin fun early on at my career. Something I had not done. And yes some people did that but not everyone can do it, especially new players.

[SpaceToast]

Today I started up KSP to continue my career, I am at the point where modules need 160 to unlock. I made an unmanned probe and sent it to Duna, only to realise that it is practically useless. The Lab is needed to reset experiments, basically rendering unmanned missions useless and severely slowing the pace of progression. People early on the career are basically crippled, even if they unlock it it is not an easy part to carry around. Progression has slowed to a crawl with the Goo and Materials bay, the most basic instruments, needing the Lab if you are to have more than one use out of them. Sending a Lab along with every mission is not easy, nor is making every mission able to return. But I would let these slide if the lab was what it was heralded to be

''The mobile processing lab was developed to help increase the amount of science we're able to do in the field. Instead of needing to haul samples all the way back to Kerbin, the mobile lab will allow you to process these samples on site!''

All it does though is provide a small bonus that is not worth the trouble that comes with it.

Basically unmanned missions are pointless and though the Lab may have succeeded in preventing players from progressing too fast, it has forced them to grind endlessly unless they are skilled enough to somewhat reduce it and that kills the experience for casual players and begginers.

What are your thoughts on this? Am I wrong? How do you use the Lab?

Here it is!

browse to your \Kerbal Space Program\GameData\Squad\Parts\Science\LargeCrewedLa b folder.

Open the part.cfg file

Change this entry:

dataTransmissionBoost = 1.5

to

dataTransmissionBoost = 10.0

This will allow it to process science at the full point value that it would on a return to KSP!

[Liowen]

Ok if it prevents this (and I am not hating on Scott Manley at all I found this funny myself). Tier one getting 350 science, and second mission getting over 6000 science. That is 6350 in 2 mission, I believe that is warrant enough to slow it down some. There are plenty of places on Kerbin that I bet most flat out ignore to go to to get their science up. When I first signed up to the forums I heard how incredibly easy to do the career stuff, and now people are saying it is too hard because they cannot spam....

[Puck Man]

I am not complaining because it's hard. I am complaining because they made it hard and the only thing that is supposed to help us is useless.

[SkyRender]

Ok if it prevents this (and I am not hating on Scott Manley at all I found this funny myself). Tier one getting 350 science, and second mission getting over 6000 science. That is 6350 in 2 mission, I believe that is warrant enough to slow it down some. There are plenty of places on Kerbin that I bet most flat out ignore to go to to get their science up. When I first signed up to the forums I heard how incredibly easy to do the career stuff, and now people are saying it is too hard because they cannot spam....

Really, three-mission full tech tree unlocks are not impossible even in 0.23; I did one myself, and it yielded improved science over my equivalent strategy in 0.22. The addition of biomes to Minmus breaks the player's options wide open early on. It just requires a different sort of strategy than before to successfully "spam" science. Now it's less about going to the far reaches of space on a one-way trip to transmit your way to victory, and more about being smart with how you exploit the Kerbin system and bring back a huge amount of science from each visit to the Mun and/or Minmus.

[Liowen]

Really, three-mission full tech tree unlocks are not impossible even in 0.23; I did one myself, and it yielded improved science over my equivalent strategy in 0.22. The addition of biomes to Minmus breaks the player's options wide open early on. It just requires a different sort of strategy than before to successfully "spam" science. Now it's less about going to the far reaches of space on a one-way trip to transmit your way to victory, and more about being smart with how you exploit the Kerbin system and bring back a huge amount of science from each visit to the Mun and/or Minmus.

Yes but you are not doing it all on one mission, and honestly I doubt that a single mission science spam was the intent of the career mode. Now as far as sending multiple missions and returning home with the science I believe is a bit different, harder yes but more in line with what SQUAD is going for. I have yet to restart my career as I am having fun in sandbox, I just like building things going out into space and looking at things. Yes I know the game offers more, but I like doing things at my own pace. My original idea for doing career in .22 was to do multiple missions to get science up and not just spam because I could, but that is just me I guess I made it hard on myself just as a rule.

[FlamedSteak]

Like I've always said; if the goal of every mission you do is to unlock the tech tree in the shortest amount of time possible you're kinda missing the point.

Afterall you're literally playing career mode for 2 missions and then you're back to sandbox.

[Sof]

Like I've always said; if the goal of every mission you do is to unlock the tech tree in the shortest amount of time possible you're kinda missing the point.

Afterall you're literally playing career mode for 2 missions and then you're back to sandbox.

People do stuff in video games because they can, not because it makes sense.

But that is beside the point. If Squad want to make a meaningful career mode, then the resource gathering (of which science is just the first) can't be spammed and shouldn't be a grind. There needs to be a logical progression in difficulty and reward. The fact that you end up back at sandbox in this current alpha version is neither here nor there. The complaints are legitimate so they should be addressed now while the game is still in an early build.

[Eric S]

Like I've always said; if the goal of every mission you do is to unlock the tech tree in the shortest amount of time possible you're kinda missing the point.

Not sure I'd say "you're missing the point" (not you, the "you" you were talking to), but I also think it won't be quite like this when career mode gets finished, or at least scope-complete. Right now, every mission is focused on getting more science because that's all we have to do. When we're worried about budgeting and reputation on top of that, I doubt we'll be as narrowly focused on maximizing our science return. I doubt we'll pass up any science on a given mission, but the mission won't be directed strictly according to what science points we can earn.

[SkyRender]

We all have different goals. My goal just happens to be to get all the science I can from the Mun and Minmus as quickly as I can, mostly as proof-of-concept for complex missions that can pull off feats like that. That it works so well is testament to the flexibility of the system.

[Arsonik]

I don't understand the gripe? Send a lab to the Mun or Minmus. That way you can do several landings on either planet without having to do multiple returns to Kerbin.... I will admit it is some time investment to set up a functional space station/science lab in orbit around another celestial body. I've barely dabbled in even Kerbin space stations before .23 because they were literally useless to ME... However it is quite feasible and very rewarding ( again to ME ) after you finish. I haven't finished my tech tree yet but I'm more then half way unlocked across the board, up to the row with Sr. docking ports and Nuclear engines. This is roughly how I've progressed so far, with minimal headaches and spaced across the two or three(?) days since release.

Starting out the same I would in .22, I did 2-3 suborbital flights in various directions from KSC to hit as many biomes as possible. I followed this up with a moon flyby. I went for a Minmus flyby next, but as my Minmus flybys usually end up, I found myself with just even fuel at periapsis to turn the flyby into a landing and return. Literally, I landed back at Kerbin with less then 1 unit of fuel in the tank, one of my my proud missions now. Anyways, following that I went for a Moon landing. Now I went for ANOTHER Minmus landing knowing that Minmus now has biomes! Normally around this time I would proceed with a Solar orbit and return. It worked out that when I launched for my Minmus landing it was quite late and I was quite low on give a $*&@. And this far along in my game I had not made a single Kerbin orbit, I had been eyeballing out single burn transfers. Well I screwed up and put Minmus on the wrong side of my takeoff. So I did a solar orbit (just barely leave Kerbin SOI, do your science, and then burn retrograde until you are back home ). Upon my return to Kerbin SOI, I had already set my Kerbin periaps low during my "injection burn" from solar orbit. But I came very close by Minmus, so I said what they hell and did another Minmus landing as well! Bear in mind by now I had 400 (and maybe 800) unit 2.5m tanks and a poodle engine unlocked.

After all that was said and done, perhaps before that even, I unlocked everything I needed to start my science lab. But it was kind of intimidating me. I had small mono tanks, I had standard docking ports, lander can, etc etc.. But any space station I've done in the pas was with Sr. ports, nuclear engines, 5 way RCS, etc etc.... None the less I figured I may as well give it a shot because I was getting to the point you are at now where science was not coming in fast enough doing a landing and return over and over. So after much tinkering in the VAB this is the system I devised, and put into orbit last night. No landings yet however.

- Built my LAB module, launched it probe controlled. Basically a lab, with panels and propulsion. Orbited it... I built the lab before I knew what modules I wanted to attach to it so I left it in Kerbin parking orbit for awhile (yay finally kerbin orbit after 5-6 missions!...).

- Planned and developed 2 "main" modules for the station.

-- A 3 man capsule with a crew cabin. Same barebones style as the lab. Propulsion, panels, mono....

-- The Lander! Duh! It has all the science I had available to me and all the fancy gizmos I could fit in.... For mid-level tech Just a single man lander but with enough fuel to do a couple Minmus ascents and rendezvous before refueling (from full tank).

- Sent each module to Minmus separately and docked there. (I'm getting quite proficient at docking now that I've done a few careers. Not the headache it use to be!)

- And thats where I am now... Going to fire up the game and play a bit before bed after forum lurking a bit more.

The lander IS a manned lander so I will be doing sample returns. I don't want to transmit them however, which is why I designed the 3man + crew compartment module. I will load that sucker up with dirt from all over Minmus and then ship it back in the shuttle to rendevouz at Kerbin and then return to KSC in a yet-to-be-designed re-entry vehicle. Which will probably be a part of a refueling station which is also yet-to-be-designed. I do have future plans with the station however. Since I waited for reasonable tech levels to build the thing, it SHOULD be re-useable at other planets. I've never transferred to another planet from MINMUS orbit before, but I imagine its hella easy!!!!! So once I've milked Minmus for all its worth, it will be off to the Joolean system, or Ike or Gilly or something Minmus-alike.

Somewhere during my mess of missions and before building my station, I to did a Duna landing. It was a probe mission with 2 goo's, 1 materials, and a thermo and atmo detector. Now, compared to 0.22 mission, you are right. It was USELESS! But not really... 400 something science if I recall correctly. I built the goo canisters and materials bay into the injection module so I did those experiments around 8km altitude during aerobraking and then ditched that garbage after promptly transmitting. The thermo and atmo detector are reuseable so I "spammed" that as much as the game would allow, whizzing over the planet above orbital velocity. I captured and landed over the north pole and did my last science transmission there. The fun part of this mission (seriously the only fun part too, I hate interplanetary burns......) was desposing of the probe lander after it was done. It fell on its side during landing, so I tried taking off up the hill it tipped on. Needless to say it never got more then 5m off the ground, but it flipped around lie a bucking bronco for a good minute (40 some fuel on 2 ant engines). I managed to bury the nose into the ground like in that background splash screen from the games Menu (Mun or bust). I got a screenshot I may upload later, probably not though . It was really cool. It is literally buried nose first and can't move anymore since it somehow clipped into the planet. That and the battery died since the solar panels broke *didnt fall off though!*. I gotta brag here a bit as well... This Duna mission was no exception to my no Kerbin orbits 'rule'. It was the first time I eyeballed the phase angle or whatever the technical term is, by doing timewarp on the launch pad. And indeed I blasted off and rendevouzed with Duna in ONE BURN from Kerbin for the first time ever! Any other planet for that matter. Now THAT felt good It was 27,000km separation but it was something like a single 10dV correction burn to drop periapsis under 10km.

The intent of my post is just to say I think science progression is just right now, nearly 'perfect' in my opinion. The game actually has a nice pace to it now and incentivizes building space stations and other engineering marvels. And the engineering is where I find the most nerdy gleeful joy. Sure it could be better I suppose... But its good enough for me. If anything they should just make careers more player defined in the next update to sort all of these problems out. Difficulty levels if you will. Let the player decide how much transmissions are worth, how many times they can be done, how much science you start with, etc.

Hopefully this was a coherent post. I typed it all up fairly quickly and without proofreading. I had posting on forums these days to be completely honest. To many years of forum activity across the web.

Cheers