Different way to unlock new science - no more starting over with every unlock

[thereaverofdarkness]

I got to thinking about this as I was reading another topic. I posted this, and I liked the idea so much I thought I'd expand upon it. Here's my original post:

I personally dislike having a wide variety of scientific tools that simply collect their own unique data. It means that after I unlock them, I have to build a new spacecraft to visit all of the places I've already been to, in order to collect science with all of them. I'd prefer if we could instead have data collection materials early on, and later get various science modules and effects that allow us to do things that can increase our science output. Best of all, they should be able to work remotely. Example: new temperature processing computer, must scan temperatures in each biome over an extended period of time but can just transmit the data from already existing thermometers on-site to KSC where the computer is. Portable computers could be brought along on missions to collect and store the temperature data, if you prefer to return home rather than set up a communications network.

So basically you don't have to send a new mission all the way out to Duna to get new temp readings, instead you hop in your existing Duna settlement and send some missions out to various biomes with thermometers (because you already have them on Duna) to collect new readings. There is still work to be done after you research new tech, but you don't necessarily have to bring tools all the way from home every time.

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So there could still be a few data gathering tools you unlock later, high tech stuff that doesn't make sense to be available at the start. But with a wide variety of data collection tools available to begin with, you can immediately work toward setting up permanent bases with tools on-site, which can be used later (and transported short distances) to collect and analyze more science.

TO BE CLEAR: you still have work to do after you unlock new science, you just don't have to ship tools all the way from home

This goes along with an earlier idea I had in which you would start with a wider variety of parts, but you could have lower-tech, scrappier versions of the parts. This way there is still much value in unlocking new parts, but there would be a wider range of options available to you if you know how to build. Parts that should be available at the start:

1.) Docking Port: something flimsy that merely allows you to pass fuel through it so that your first mission to the Mün which likely doesn't have enough fuel to come back doesn't necessarily wind up as a monument. Later, when you unlock better technology, you can rescue your kerbals and even have them fly their own crappy lander back home. You can also use said docking port to attach batteries, solar panels, or other things to existing structures.

2.) Decoupler: no ejection force, just something that'll detatch basic rocket parts. Low structural integrity is fine and probably makes sense from a technological standpoint. What doesn't make sense is that they can build rockets but can't build hinges and clamps.

Data-gathering tools to start with:

* goo

* science jr materials lab

* thermometer

* barometer

* accelerometer

Data-gathering tools that must be unlocked:

* negative gravoli detector

* aviation flight data

* magnetic field reader (from a mod pack)

So, starting out, getting readings from all of these wouldn't necessarily give out much science benefit. Your kerbals aren't very experienced with these tools at the start, and the scientists back home don't know very much about what they are looking for. This means that a lot of the data is collected in a poor fashion and does not make use of the tools' full potential. There would be tools and methods you unlock which would improve the data collection methods, then you must re-collect your data. If you have a craft near a site, you can make a short trip to go collect data again. If you have a craft right in the biome, you can merely switch to it and perform new science right away.

Another thing that would unlock new gameplay without forcing re-play would be labs that process data over an extended period of time. For instance, the Mobile Processing Lab could be made to work primarily for goo and materials studies, and soil samples. It could have a limited amount of storage space (a pretty large amount) which you could fill up with soil samples and used goo canisters and materials labs for post-processing. Say the goo canister and science jr become unusable after data collection, not just data transfer, but if you transmit data back home about them, they maintain their state and can still be brought home as-is for further analysis. Or you can consolidate all of them to one spot and bring a MPL there to study them over an extended period of time and ultimately clean them off, for less than full gain but very good gain nonetheless.

Edited December 21, 2013 by thereaverofdarkness

[thereaverofdarkness]

Thermometer and barometer: 100% science gain on return or transmission, can store (several/unlimited) readings inside any command capsule that has a datapad inside. This allows them to be reset without transmitting, so they can collect readings from another biome.

ââ€â€Technology unlock that updates KSC with ability to analyze this data better - requires time-based collection of data on-site with thermometer or barometer.

--ââ€â€New Weather module which can be used to collect in-depth temperature and pressure analysis and store for later transmission or return home.

Accelerometer: 100% science gain on return or transmission initially, but only good for reading spacecraft acceleration during takeoff, landing, aerobraking, and other strong acceleration effects. Also can store initial readings on datapad.

ââ€â€Technology unlock that allows accelerometer to be used over a brief time on the ground to research seismic activity in each biome. Can store results in Weather module.

-- ââ€â€Technology unlock that allows in-depth analysis of seismic data over long time. Can store results in Weather module but results take up a lot of storage space.

Science Jr., Materials Study Lab: 20% science gain on transmission, 80% on return to Kerbin. Processing it in the Mobile Processing Lab increases science gain from transmission to 50%, which goes up along with the max with later updates. A later unlock grants Advanced Materials Processing technology which increases the max gain from processing materials by 100% but the gain from transmissions and MPL processing by just 50%. Thus the Science Jr. module will list your transmission gain as 15% and your return to Kerbin gain as 60%, while processing in the MPL now yields 37.5%. Also, the AMP technology allows you to perform an Advanced Analysis in the MPL which takes a long time but yields 75% instead of 37.5%.

To summarize: If you leave your early Science Jrs on-site and process them later in the MPL with AMP tech, you get more total science than if you had brought them back home before this research. On the other hand, if you bring them back home after researching AMP, you get even more.

Goo and soil samples something similar to ^

I also think that there should be several updates and things involving the materials lab (Science Jr.) because I'm certain it has a lot of fascinating materials in it that can tell us many things if we but understand how to interpret the data. It is my hope that the humble Science Jr. can become a long-term research interest, able to be used and re-used for a wide variety of different research projects.

Edited December 21, 2013 by thereaverofdarkness

[Specialist290]

I was meaning to reply to this in my own thread (where your OP was), but since you've gone ahead and posted this, I'll say it here instead:

I really like this idea, particularly the idea of unlocking new functions for old parts as you advance instead of just unlocking new parts with every tech node. I've had a similar idea bouncing around in my head (though more related to unlocking "modification packs" for existing engines and such), and yours seem to fit nicely in with that general theme.

[thereaverofdarkness]

Thanks!

Unlocking modification packs for engines...reminds me of something I saw in a KSP video on youtube, there was science amounts needed to upgrade certain parts.

Here's a thought. Perhaps various parts could be upgraded by unlocking the technology and then updating them on-site after shipping in upgrade packs which are much lighter than the whole piece. For instance, you get new tech for your turbojet RAPIER engines, and you send a probe to Laythe which drops down via parachute and leaves a box behind - your Kerbal can fly the space plane to the box, land, get out, and fix those engines up to be better.

Edited December 21, 2013 by thereaverofdarkness

[Specialist290]

Thanks!

Unlocking modification packs for engines...reminds me of something I saw in a KSP video on youtube, there was science amounts needed to upgrade certain parts.

Here's a thought. Perhaps various parts could be upgraded by unlocking the technology and then updating them on-site after shipping in upgrade packs which are much lighter than the whole piece. For instance, you get new tech for your turbojet engines, and you send a probe to Laythe which drops down via parachute and leaves a box behind - your Kerbal can fly the space plane to the box, land, get out, and fix those engines up to be better.

I was thinking more along the lines of unlocking different "modpacks" that are only applied in the VAB and are tailored toward boosting one area of performance over another (such as one increasing ISP while cutting thrust, and another that works vice-versa), but that could work as well. Also, I'm stealing aspects of this idea to help refine my own

[thereaverofdarkness]

Yeah there's another thing I had thought of: unlocking different versions of the same parts. Perhaps as you perform science (any science at all), you get more versions of the parts you already have. Each unlock could happen at a specific research tier: say you have the LV-909 lander engine and 1 tier up you can unlock a slightly more efficient version with worse TWR for longer trips to small bodies, and also a heavier and higher thrust version with similar efficiency, for larger landers. You research anything 1 tier up and you unlock the smaller one. Research a different section also 1 tier up, and you unlock the bigger one. Research things 2 tiers up and you unlock more versions.

Or it could be more like certain research combinations unlock more things, for instance if you research both the LV-909 and the Poodle, maybe you unlock something in-between. Then if you research the delta wing and the canard, you get a larger canard.

Also, steal away! I do like credit for my ideas, but feel free to use them. What I want most is to see these happen.