Project Orion-themed Propulsion Systems

[plainawesome]

Project Orion was a space program that started in the 1950's, as some of you already know and/or recall. The goal of Project Orion was to propel rockets across the solar system by using nuclear explosions as a form of rocket propulsion. However, since the government made this project top secret due to obvious reasons, the only funding that the project got was through government grants, which in the late 50's, early 60's was cut due to the lack of progress. And soon enough, the project went bust. The reason I bring this up is because the idea of using explosions in order to propel rockets seems quite "Kerbal" to me, and probably everybody else who plays this game, as well. So if there is possibly a way to implement this feature in the game, I would like to see it. It would also be quite fun to play around with .

[crazyewok]

yup 10000000000000000000000000000000000000% behind this. Project orion is my favorite bit of space exploration and one of the things I get teary over when think of what could of beens, the fact we could have colonys on the moons of saturn by now if we had tried.

Would love Orion put in. I know the argument is it will make all engine obsolete. Hense why you could put it at top of the tec tree.

[thereaverofdarkness]

I know Project Orion is touted as real science, but reading abut it I just can't get behind it. It doesn't make any sense to me that impulses could be several seconds apart, the rocket could accelerate rapidly, and it'll not fly apart.

[plainawesome]

Would love Orion put in. I know the argument is it will make all engine obsolete. Hense why you could put it at top of the tec tree.

Well, we could just use both, can't we?

[Canopus]

Sorry but i guess three is no place for this overpowered Propulsion system in the Core game. If you are however interested in an Excellent mod representing Nuclear Pulse Propulsion, feel free to check out the second link in my signature.

[plainawesome]

Sorry but i guess three is no place for this overpowered Propulsion system in the Core game.

What are you talking about? This game is about space exploration but with a humorous twist, and you're saying that a different form of propulsion doesn't fit in? By the way, I didn't know that there was a mod for this, must have been tricky to make.

[Canopus]

What are you talking about? This game is about space exploration but with a humorous twist, and you're saying that a different form of propulsion doesn't fit in? By the way, I didn't know that there was a mod for this, must have been tricky to make.

No i'm just saying that this part would basically eliminate your need to balance your thrust, Specific impulse and mass of your spacecraft. Which is a big part of the game.

[Moonfrog]

Why don't we invent our own Explosion type kerbal engine, rather than copy the orion project. You mentioned it was based on nuclear explosions, normally an engine blast is a controlled continuing explosion burn, where the energy is directed to generate thrust.

If this was made would the energy be contained then directed away form the rocket, how to contain a nuclear explosion would be pretty difficult for a rocket.

Or would it be like a sail? create an explosion then the resulting blast wave would push the ship away with some kind of sail that catches that wave?

Also how would you deal with insurance of kerbal spaceport being destroyed every time this engine is used no wait nvm, we put a sign on it saying only use in space 70km away from other kerbals.

[crazyewok]

I know Project Orion is touted as real science, but reading abut it I just can't get behind it. It doesn't make any sense to me that impulses could be several seconds apart, the rocket could accelerate rapidly, and it'll not fly apart.

Well you better beleive it. Men alot smarter than us looked into it and even used nuclear testing that was going on to test structal integrity and apprentlys its all sound.

[crazyewok]

Sorry but i guess three is no place for this overpowered Propulsion system in the Core game. .

Even if its at the top of the tec tree?

[Themohawkninja]

The problem is, is that for one thing the dV equation doesn't apply, as you can't ascertain the ISP of a nuclear bomb, since it burns it's fuel in mere fractions of a second, and does this in bursts, and not continuously.

Secondly, while this is sort of funny, it would mean that any refueling stations, are essentially Cold War stockpiles stored in orbit, which is probably the biggest safety hazard that you can possibly think of.

Thirdly, this would be very hard to balance, as you would either have to make the bombs quite large volumetrically speaking, or make each bomb provide little thrust. Otherwise, you are getting to every planet quite easily with real-life yield bombs.

Lastly, I think this technically falls under suggesting weapons in KSP, since the idea does involve the use of weapons.

[Canopus]

I wouldn't say this falls under the category Of Weapons because the Bombs aren't use to blow things up or kill people but to explore the cosmos. Though i still think its too overpowered for the Core game, atleast at the current speed you can climb up the tech tree.

[jfull]

I think it would be neat to see in the game, but not for a while.

I think that, eventually, KSP will have a greatly extended tech tree, and that's when it should be implemented

[panarchist]

There's also Winchell Chung's fantastic version: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/28428-Orion-aka-Ol-Boom-boom

Ah, I see that's the link in Canopus' sig. Sorry, should have read more closely before posting. I second the recommendation!

Edited December 21, 2013 by panarchist
Whoops!

[Moonfrog]

No reason why it can't be turned into a Burst style engine. An engine that can magnetically contain the explosion of small nuclear bombs and then channel that explosive force the same way as a normal engine would. But instead of it being a continuous burst over a long period of time.

Its everything all at once, it would cause huge G forces and stresses on the ship, so that could be its weak point. Also Due to it being a bomb, its one use, then drop it type engine, since the stress of the container would be damaged during use it would function bit like an srb in that it can't be refuelled, once used that's it its over. No vectoring control or anything.

Offer a very different method of travel.

Why not think of it at least theoretically as a Burst engine. Its more plausible than the Kerbal poop wind propulsion system.

Pretty sure this is feasible in real life, with small nuclear devices, not ones that can destroy cities they would be too large. But smaller ones, like a tiny tactical warhead, rather than a strategic warhead.

[Canopus]

@ Moonfrog it doesn't contain the explosion. The bombs explode behind a pusher plate which transforms the sudden blast into a gradual acceleration through large shock absorbers.

I would recommend you to read Winchell Chung's website which has quite some information on many theoretically possible propulsion methods. As already mentioned he is also the creator of the Orion mod. http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist.php#id--Pulse--Orion

Edited December 21, 2013 by Canopus

[crazyewok]

Lastly, I think this technically falls under suggesting weapons in KSP, since the idea does involve the use of weapons.

Rubbish!

Its not a weapon as its not being used as such.

Under your reasoning you may as well say rockets are weapons to as they are used as ICBM.

Why do people pretend project orion never existed or push it under the carpet? Its cause its a reminder of how we have held ourself back 50 years?

[Themohawkninja]

Rubbish!

Its not a weapon as its not being used as such.

Under your reasoning you may as well say rockets are weapons to as they are used as ICBM.

Why do people pretend project orion never existed or push it under the carpet? Its cause its a reminder of how we have held ourself back 50 years?

Fair enough.

Also, we don't like to discuss project Orion as a real possibility, because the concept got a bit "out there" so-to-speak with regard to the super Orion.

Not to mention that it uses nukes, which are sort of taboo.

[LaydeeDem]

Sorry but i guess three is no place for this overpowered Propulsion system in the Core game. If you are however interested in an Excellent mod representing Nuclear Pulse Propulsion, feel free to check out the second link in my signature.

Yeah it's not like we have parts like that already.

[crazyewok]

Also, we don't like to discuss project Orion as a real possibility, because the concept got a bit "out there" so-to-speak with regard to the super Orion.

Not to mention that it uses nukes, which are sort of taboo.

Which is what irratates me. Human kind could be so far ahead than we are now. We have to face the fast it was a REAL possibilty, it was large scale but extremly doable, and that was with 60's tec. And nukes? well who cares, least something good could come out of them. The human race needs to grow a pair and man up and face it, that was our best chance to do it at reasonble cost. But instead we are still pratting about with uneconomical chem rockets that make any expansion into space restrictivly expensive.

[Anton P. Nym]

I know Project Orion is touted as real science, but reading abut it I just can't get behind it. It doesn't make any sense to me that impulses could be several seconds apart, the rocket could accelerate rapidly, and it'll not fly apart.

Believe it; a test model [actually flew:

Which is what irratates me. Human kind could be so far ahead than we are now. We have to face the fast it was a REAL possibilty, it was large scale but extremly doable, and that was with 60's tec.

I believe it was Dyson himself who calculated that statistically each launch of an Orion would cause one fatal case of cancer. Can't even call for volunteers, because it's so random a risk... We aren't flying ORION because there are real problems with the drive, not just technical issues but very serious problems with its side effects.

-- Steve

[Themohawkninja]

Which is what irratates me. Human kind could be so far ahead than we are now. We have to face the fast it was a REAL possibilty, it was large scale but extremly doable, and that was with 60's tec. And nukes? well who cares, least something good could come out of them. The human race needs to grow a pair and man up and face it, that was our best chance to do it at reasonble cost. But instead we are still pratting about with uneconomical chem rockets that make any expansion into space restrictivly expensive.

While I do agree with the whole "we need to get into space like we did in the '60's" ideology. Unless you can devise some way of differentiating the force of each nuclear blast in flight to get the precise changes in velocity, it isn't a very accurate system.

[Anton P. Nym]

While I do agree with the whole "we need to get into space like we did in the '60's" ideology. Unless you can devise some way of differentiating the force of each nuclear blast in flight to get the precise changes in velocity, it isn't a very accurate system.

Actually, that's one of the solved problems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_yield. The real problems are radioactive fallout (as they still use fissile cores) and the strategic/political/safety problems with hauling hundreds of nukes over other peoples' heads.

-- Steve

[Canopus]

Yeah it's not like we have parts like that already.

Yeah, have you ever used the Rapier? Its is anything but an overpowered engine. Not really better than any engine in the game already.

[KvickFlygarn87]

So, how exactly would this be balanced? 5 digit I_sp, crazy thrust and no downsides (i.e. crew dying from cancer)?