Project Orion-themed Propulsion Systems

[tntristan12]

In general, I have no problem with the devs implementing game breaking end-game technologies such as this. The caveat is that they should be excessively hard to get access to in career mode (in sandbox though, everything is fair game). I trust the devs to add things like that within reason. No reason this shouldn't be one of those things, but maybe they'd do a much simplified caricature version of the ultra-realistic mod variant.

[Moonfrog]

Why must it be exact to orion specifications, why can't the kerbal have their own ideas? I know the orion doesn't contain the explosion, but the type of engine is unique in that it accelerates the craft in bursts of thrust rather than continuous thrust. So why not think of a kerbal burst like engine instead of asking for the Orion duplicate engine.

Wouldn't it be fun to make up our own engines?

[Canopus]

Why must it be exact to orion specifications, why can't the kerbal have their own ideas? I know the orion doesn't contain the explosion, but the type of engine is unique in that it accelerates the craft in bursts of thrust rather than continuous thrust. So why not think of a kerbal burst like engine instead of asking for the Orion duplicate engine.

Wouldn't it be fun to make up our own engines?

Up until now Kerbals only our existing and possible Technologies and i think it should stay that way.

[Kegereneku]

I'm not against a late-tech engine like the Orion drive because it's overpowered, but I don't think it would even work that well if we made a real one. Let alone it being that practical between the very open nuclear cycle and the hyper kinetic debris generated by the material of each bomb plus shaped bomb which have to resist well enough to redirect the energy in the right direction.

Seriously, it may sound cool and indeed Kerbal but in comparison a closed-cycle nuclear fission thermal engine (what is the LV-N engine) is both efficient and safe.

Up until now Kerbals only our existing and possible Technologies and i think it should stay that way.

Up until now Kerbal used fictional-technology in a fictional-solar-system to do fictional-10years-manned-mission, so I think we can cut some slack to a large and balanced nuclear engine.

It's not like anybody proposed a FTL drive.

[Canopus]

Up until now Kerbal used fictional-technology in a fictional-solar-system to do fictional-10years-manned-mission, so I think we can cut some slack to a large and balanced nuclear engine.

It's not like anybody proposed a FTL drive.

How about you read first who i answered too? I'm not saying abything against the Orion. And sorry but no. The technology the Kerbals use is in no way fictional.

And please read carefully before you answer anything.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Canopus

[Kegereneku]

don't take it that bad, I'm not defending the Orion-drive either.

I'm just putting into perspective that the technology used by Kerbals is tailor-made for a video-game, quite inspired from reality yes, but actually Nerfed ! Since the Kerbol system of KSP is 1/10th as big as our solar system.

I did read what you were answering to. If you want me to be more elaborative in my remark : Many type of propulsion have been considered and are being developed, some crazier than other (from magnetized-tether to actual magnetic accelerator), making our own engine is certainly too difficult to program but KSP's physic could be surprising.

Anyway I didn't meant much when I answered. I just tend to be harsh.

Edit : By the way.

Out of all "possible" engine, we also considered pellet for nuclear fusion ignited through laser

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist.php#icfusion

We even have pulsejet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsejet

[plainawesome]

Lastly, I think this technically falls under suggesting weapons in KSP, since the idea does involve the use of weapons.

Well I'm not using the weapons to intentionally damage vessels or harm Kerbals, so it wouldn't fall under weapons.

[plainawesome]

I think it would be neat to see in the game, but not for a while.

I think that, eventually, KSP will have a greatly extended tech tree, and that's when it should be implemented

I agree with your statement.

[thereaverofdarkness]

I believe it was Dyson himself who calculated that statistically each launch of an Orion would cause one fatal case of cancer. Can't even call for volunteers, because it's so random a risk... We aren't flying ORION because there are real problems with the drive, not just technical issues but very serious problems with its side effects.

-- Steve

Actually Dyson said that in a ground launch, each warhead used would cause between 0.1 and 1 fatal cases of cancer. He was saying it should probably be launched from orbit.

Lastly, I think this technically falls under suggesting weapons in KSP, since the idea does involve the use of weapons.

If explosives are necessarily weapons, then there are a lot of things that KSP shouldn't have.

Remember, if you take a man's knife away, he can still stab someone with a pencil. That doesn't make the pencil a weapon.

Edited December 22, 2013 by thereaverofdarkness

[kiwiak]

I dont think this ever needs to be added to stock. We have mod and i think its enough.

[Skyler4856]

I've played with mods that used it. Way too OP

Edited December 22, 2013 by Skyler4856

[Aghanim]

How about normal Orion, but the fuel is not free? You need to scan the planets, drop nuclear materials miner, feed the blutonium to nuke maker, and fill the drive with enough nukes so it could go anywhere

[Skyler4856]

Still really OP

[Anton P. Nym]

The main objection to including Orion as a stock engine is that it's so powerful it makes orbital dynamics moot... and it's those dynamics that make Kerbal Space Program unique as a game. You don't need transfer orbits or gravity assists; you can point at your target and hammer away like in Elite.

Orion's fun for a bit, and I enjoyed even my failures with it, but it really doesn't fit in with the rest of the parts of the game and I don't think it should be incorporated into the stock parts set.

-- Steve

[kerb20]

I know Project Orion is touted as real science, but reading abut it I just can't get behind it. It doesn't make any sense to me that impulses could be several seconds apart, the rocket could accelerate rapidly, and it'll not fly apart.

[KvickFlygarn87]

I know Project Orion is touted as real science, but reading abut it I just can't get behind it. It doesn't make any sense to me that impulses could be several seconds apart, the rocket could accelerate rapidly, and it'll not fly apart.

Did you just steal some guys post? ¬ÃºÂ¬

[thereaverofdarkness]

I'm not aware of any post-stealing here

[Canopus]

I know Project Orion is touted as real science, but reading abut it I just can't get behind it. It doesn't make any sense to me that impulses could be several seconds apart, the rocket could accelerate rapidly, and it'll not fly apart.

Why do you copy other peoples Posts?

[plainawesome]

I know Project Orion is touted as real science, but reading abut it I just can't get behind it. It doesn't make any sense to me that impulses could be several seconds apart, the rocket could accelerate rapidly, and it'll not fly apart.

I would report this post, but unfortunately you cannot report a post for plagiarism.

[plainawesome]

No i'm just saying that this part would basically eliminate your need to balance your thrust, Specific impulse and mass of your spacecraft. Which is a big part of the game.

Well YOU don't have to use it it YOU don't want to.

[Wahgineer]

Well YOU don't have to use it it YOU don't want to.

An engine that allows you to lift 10,000 tons to interstellar? Who wouldn't use it?! it would be stupid not to! While the you don't have to if you don't want to phrase works with everything else, it can't really be applied to the Orion drive. Hence where I think the major weakness to the STL only argument lies: a realistic form of interstellar propulsion would eliminate every other engines use. A properly balanced warp drive would fill the niche of an interstellar engine, where as it is impossible to balance an Orion drive without making it pointless or too much of a hassle to use.

[coolitic]

Except the craft would get instantly destroyed on launch. Unless you are sending a heavy duty, small probe it wouldn't do anything.

[chaos_forge]

Speaking of interstellar, I recently had an idea about how to make an Orion Drive that works for interstellar travel, but not interplanetary (in sandbox). Say we introduce an Orion drive with a HUGE Dv per pulse, say 10km/s. However, it has some "error": when you fire a pulse, doesn't apply exactly 10km/s of Dv, but rather it randomly applies a Dv of 10±1 km/s in the direction you're facing.

Thus, if you try to get to a planet with an Orion Drive, even after doing a retroburn, you would still have to face (on average) a Dv of about 1,000 m/s and sure, you could make multiple passes, turning the engine first one way and then another, but since the engine is so clunky turning would be slow, and most players would get bored of it. After all, what makes an engine OP or not is the player time it takes to get somewhere, not the in-game time. With this method, Orion Drive would be pretty ineffective (in player time) in getting us to other planets.

In going to another star, however, a difference of a "mere" 1,000 m/s would be a small price to pay for the 100km/s or more you needed to actually get to the other star.

Another possibility is to have a small error in the direction the force is applied instead of or addition to the error in Dv.

Thoughts?

Edited March 5, 2014 by chaos_forge

[Comrade Jenkens]

I find it quite interesting that plausible technologies that are possible for us to make are being considered overpowered!

Though I've never really liked the idea of orion drives personally, imo it would be fine if they were in game. The whole idea of a tech tree is to put more powerful things towards the end.

[Skyler4856]

Speaking of interstellar, I recently had an idea about how to make an Orion Drive that works for interstellar travel, but not interplanetary (in sandbox). Say we introduce an Orion drive with a HUGE Dv per pulse, say 10km/s. However, it has some "error": when you fire a pulse, doesn't apply exactly 10km/s of Dv, but rather it randomly applies a Dv of 10±1 km/s in the direction you're facing.

Thus, if you try to get to a planet with an Orion Drive, even after doing a retroburn, you would still have to face (on average) a Dv of about 1,000 m/s and sure, you could make multiple passes, turning the engine first one way and then another, but since the engine is so clunky turning would be slow, and most players would get bored of it. After all, what makes an engine OP or not is the player time it takes to get somewhere, not the in-game time. With this method, Orion Drive would be pretty ineffective (in player time) in getting us to other planets.

In going to another star, however, a difference of a "mere" 1,000 m/s would be a small price to pay for the 100km/s or more you needed to actually get to the other star.

Another possibility is to have a small error in the direction the force is applied instead of or addition to the error in Dv.

Thoughts?

Orion would be used for a main burn and mainsails would be used for corrections