0.23 MUNSHINE LIFTERS -5-165 tons to orbit, including low-tech Career Mode versions!

[Redshift OTF]

Wow, that picture is epic!

Hmm, that gives me an idea.

[LameLefty]

Hey folks, we've just released the Low-Tech Pack of Munshines! These have been trimmed of most high-tech parts for use in Career Mode. They require you to have researched Flight Control, Specialized Control, Advanced Construction and Very Heavy Rocketry.

My Contracts department will be calling to arrange terms immediately, sir!

(And thanks for the career-minded versions!)

[Giggleplex777]

I lifted the Munshine III to orbit with the Munshine IX.

I still had tons (literally) of fuel left!

[GusTurbo]

I lifted the Munshine III to orbit with the Munshine IX.

I still had tons (literally) of fuel left!

Haha that's amazing!

I'm using Munshine IX to lift this 146 ton craft:

Edited January 1, 2014 by GusTurbo

[Captain Sierra]

If you can make a 200 ton serial lifter, that would be flat out amazing. I personally don't think it can be done, but you sir seem to have other ideas about serial staging.

And lol to lifting the Munshine III with an IX.

[Giggleplex777]

This was actually a slightly redesigned Munshine IX, which replaced the winglets with Standard Canards for better control at launch.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Giggleplex777

[DisarmingBaton5]

Hey Wayfare,

Munshine 4.5?

-Nicely bridges the gap between IV and V

-Procedural fairings shroud the payload, but obviously that is not necessary.

-This specific rocket was not flown to orbit, but rather flown a few km for photos. I have, however, flown very similar lifters and they perform well.

-I do not know exact payload capacity, but it is probably 30-40t to 100km.

-It's pretty much a Munshine IV with an extra rocket

[Wayfare]

Courtesy of the ever-amazing Giggleplex777, an error in the Munshine subassemblies has been corrected: they were saved without empty stages, causing them to merge into payload stages when added from the subassembly menu. No more! This error was not present in the LT versions.

Hey Wayfare,

Munshine 4.5?

[snip]

-Nicely bridges the gap between IV and V

-Procedural fairings shroud the payload, but obviously that is not necessary.

-This specific rocket was not flown to orbit, but rather flown a few km for photos. I have, however, flown very similar lifters and they perform well.

-I do not know exact payload capacity, but it is probably 30-40t to 100km.

-It's pretty much a Munshine IV with an extra rocket

I'll tell you, I've been putting quite a bit of work into a 35-40t launcher built on the Munshine profile but I could never make it work. The problem is that the Munshine IV sits on the edge of diminishing returns for the Skipper/Jumbo booster configuration. Adding another booster only ups the payload capacity to 30 tons or so, not really enough of a difference to warrant an entire design. I've played with a lot of variations trying to get one orange tank into orbit efficiently:

- Adding a bit more fuel to the five-Skipper first stage design brings the first stage's TWR dangerously close to 1.0, causing severe control issues at liftoff.

- Adding a bit more fuel to the second stage just gives the first stage an even harder time.

- Swapping out the central Skipper for a Mainsail fixes the TWR problem but it guzzles too much fuel, even when "throttled" by using 0.23's thrust limit slider.

- Adding some of the much-maligned Mark 55 vernier thrusters to the core stack does the same.

- Swapping the outboard Skippers for clusters of LVT-45s balloons the parts count.

- Building out the second stage (effectively turning it into a down-powered Munshine V rather than an up-powered Munshine VI) requires a more powerful first stage and again balloons the parts count.

I've so far not been able to produce a 35-40 ton lifter that is lighter on parts than the Munshine V. Your design would push about 30 tons to orbit - certainly not bad, but as I said I feel it's not enough advantage over the Munshine VI to warrant inclusion in the family. I'm open to suggestions though as I do agree that there's an awful big gap between the VI and the V!

[Captain Sierra]

Wayfare, your problem seems to be a deficiency in the stock game. The gap between Munshine IV and V is cased by a gap between the skipper and mainsail. It's a jump between 650kN of thrust and 1500kN of thrust. I typically bridge the gap witha 5 engine cluster (4 LV-T30s and 1 LV-T45). Problem with that is like you said, it balloons part count with massive clipping (which increases vessel lag even more). I compensate with cluster mounts, Mobius Rocketworks. What we need is a stock 2.5m engine with 1000-1100 thrust to fit between the skipper and Mainsail, making a Munshine IV.V possible.

[Giggleplex777]

Wayfare, your problem seems to be a deficiency in the stock game. The gap between Munshine IV and V is cased by a gap between the skipper and mainsail. It's a jump between 650kN of thrust and 1500kN of thrust. I typically bridge the gap witha 5 engine cluster (4 LV-T30s and 1 LV-T45). Problem with that is like you said, it balloons part count with massive clipping (which increases vessel lag even more). I compensate with cluster mounts, Mobius Rocketworks. What we need is a stock 2.5m engine with 1000-1100 thrust to fit between the skipper and Mainsail, making a Munshine IV.V possible.

You could just lower the thrust of the Mainsail.

I'll see what I can do about the 40 ton lifter.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Giggleplex777

[Wayfare]

Thinking about it some more, cutting a Munshine V down to just three or two sets of outboard boosters might do the trick, though payload stability might become an issue.

[phidauex]

Just wanted to say thanks for the LT versions - designing the lifter is my least favorite part of the craft-building process, and these ones fit in nicely with a career game - as soon as I researched the last required technology they just automagically appeared in the subassemblies loader, and lifted as promised with no fuss. I'm particularly pleased about the low part counts - every part matters with lag when lifting 300+ part craft. Thanks!

[Rune]

Wayfare, your problem seems to be a deficiency in the stock game. The gap between Munshine IV and V is cased by a gap between the skipper and mainsail. It's a jump between 650kN of thrust and 1500kN of thrust. I typically bridge the gap witha 5 engine cluster (4 LV-T30s and 1 LV-T45). Problem with that is like you said, it balloons part count with massive clipping (which increases vessel lag even more). I compensate with cluster mounts, Mobius Rocketworks. What we need is a stock 2.5m engine with 1000-1100 thrust to fit between the skipper and Mainsail, making a Munshine IV.V possible.

Errr... did you forget the stock game already provides a perfect way of doing rocket clusters? This is a whooping 7 parts, for 5 engines (you need a fuel line to the adapter if you clip another engine in the middle. It could be a skipper, and it would be fed).

And considering mainsails already need more than 7 parts in struts to keep them from blowing apart your rocket... I look at it like the F-1 vs RD-170 solve of combustion instability in large kerosene engines.

Rune. One blew engines till they got it right through trial and error, the other divided the thrust chambers.

[Giggleplex777]

How do build a Munshine that can lift 40 tons to orbit? Simply stick two 20 ton lifters on top of each other!

Only 44 parts!

[Santoron]

Updated Munshines? Moar variants? Merry Xmas to me!

[DisarmingBaton5]

I'll see if I can build a nice 40-45t lifter on the Munshine base. Liking Giggleplex's but is looks like it might be taller than Munshine V.

[Giggleplex777]

I'll see if I can build a nice 40-45t lifter on the Munshine base. Liking Giggleplex's but is looks like it might be taller than Munshine V.

They're the same height. This was the simplest and the most part-efficient way to lift 40 tons.

[DisarmingBaton5]

Still very much WIP, TWR in 1st stage is a bit high and I have not flown it to orbit yet.

[astropapi1]

Try swapping the inner Mainsail for a Skipper and add one of these to the exterior stacks.

Should give it a little more dV and reduce the TWR.

[Wayfare]

Another prototype on the pad:

Basically a Munshine V stripped down to four engines per stage. We're weighing different designs against each other now and it looks like the family will have a new member soon!

[DisarmingBaton5]

Another prototype on the pad:

http://i.imgur.com/MV5zhjn.png

Basically a Munshine V stripped down to four engines per stage. We're weighing different designs against each other now and it looks like the family will have a new member soon!

What's the mass capacity?

It looks a bit heavy, perhaps just 3 engines per stage would be a better fit in that gap.

...More testing is imminent. Yay.

[Wayfare]

What's the mass capacity?

It looks a bit heavy, perhaps just 3 engines per stage would be a better fit in that gap.

...More testing is imminent. Yay.

Rated for 35 tons with a 10% margin, tested up to 40.

One more prototype, this being more an evolution of the Munshine IV than the V:

The three craft are really very similar in part counts and payload capacity, ranging between 44-50 parts and all capable of lifting a Jumbo to orbit with some fuel to spare. We'll need to do some more flying to determine which has the best flight characteristics before deciding on a release.

[DisarmingBaton5]

http://i.imgur.com/VA3wAV2.png

This one looks best IMO. One more prototype is on the way, it will be a bit heavier on the part count.

EDIT: Prototype finished and flown to orbit with a fair amount of fuel to spare:

Part count is somewhere under 100, I can probably trim it quite a lot if needed.

EDIT2: TWR is high in first stage, perhaps it would be better with skippers.

Edited January 7, 2014 by DisarmingBaton5

[Wayfare]

That's a really nice looking rocket! Not quite Munshine material due to the parts count but I like the look of that second stage in particular. I agree that the Mainsails probably have too much oomph, though Skippers under a 1.5-Jumbo don't really lift much anymore. Maybe replace just the outer engines with Skippers?

It looks like an easily adaptable design too - just add or subtract outer stacks to increase or decrease the payload capacity. Maybe you could make a family out of it

[Fox62]

Is there a 0.22 version available?