So let me get this straight....

[E. F. Kranz]

The Kerbal race has built an entire aerospace program consisting of a lighted runway and launchpad, a hangar, a tall construction building, a satellite tracking station, R&D facilities, etc....

....and the best power system they could come up with for their first space launch is.... nothing?

When you start this game you get nothing? No batteries, no fuel cells, no solar panels?

I know it's a game, and it's in alpha, etc. And I can suspend disbelief. After all, I'm flying little green dudes to the moon. But come ON!

Signed,

Anybody Who Ever Used Timewarp With SAS On

[jduchock]

IBTL !!

necro'd complaint. You can resolve this by using custom tech trees or modifying part config files themselves...

[LameLefty]

The Kerbal race has built an entire aerospace program consisting of a lighted runway and launchpad, a hangar, a tall construction building, a satellite tracking station, R&D facilities, etc....

....and the best power system they could come up with for their first space launch is.... nothing?

When you start this game you get nothing? No batteries, no fuel cells, no solar panels?

I know it's a game, and it's in alpha, etc. And I can suspend disbelief. After all, I'm flying little green dudes to the moon. But come ON!

Signed,

Anybody Who Ever Used Timewarp With SAS On

Yep, that's the long and the short of it. Do a crew report and EVA from the pad, take some surface samples on the pad and around the grass over by the oceanside. You'll get plenty of early Science to get batteries. Do a couple suborbital hops to the poles, to the grasslands or hills on the other side of the planet ... No need to even leave the planet without the first couple tiers of the Tech Tree completed. Tho' I'll tell you I managed a free-return Münar mission on my third flight in 0.23 without any real effort at all to maximize Science before hand.

[GluttonyReaper]

You ever seen the description for the battery tech node? apparently, they had electricity, but never thought to combine it with rocketry.

[Wallace]

In Command and Conquer, you start off with an advanced vehicle that can unpack into a fully functioning construction facility, a refinery and vehicle that can process an alien lifeform into any material you need, a nuclear powerplant, and the most advanced military technology you have, is a lil guy on foot with a gun.

In theme park, you have a hundreds of acres of walled-in park, with a regular shuttle bus service bringing dozens of visitors every couple of minutes, and your star attraction is a bouncy castle.

pretty much every single game with advancing technology starts out the same way, suck it up.

[matts73]

Yeap, and they have no wheels before they invent airplanes, they invent rockets before planes, they have no cities, no infrastucture, no need to feed, to breathe (why are they have space suits ? Oh sure because of the pressure difference), sleep, reproduce, and so on. Some explain it due to the kerbol nature or something but I think it´s just a concept that is not thought logical to an end ( And I really mean only the tec-tree, not all the other little or bigger or huge logic fails... . Live with it as I do and close your eyes, count to ten and hope squad don´t gets bankrupt or loses their interest in the game and finish it in - lets be optimistic- 8 jears from now.

[SkyRender]

The practical answer is "the game wouldn't be as interesting if all of that technology was unlocked from the get-go and you had nothing to work for". The slightly more pragmatic answer is, space is hard and making parts that actually work reliably in an eternal vacuum and eternal free fall is more challenging than most people realize.

[Sirrobert]

Yup, that's exactly how it is.

Don't come here whining about realism, this is a GAME. Realism only exists for asfar as it needs to, and no further than that

[Luckless]

The obvious answer is that Kerbals actually just live under ground in a society that is so old and so well automated that they have forgotten technology. After generations of never having to think, having had everything in life taken care of for them, they grew lazy and forgetful.

Some accident then destroyed part of their historical databases that held information on things like space flight, and then someone found the surface again.

So, then they've stumbled back out into the surface, but their subterranean cities are still providing for all their needs, and someone decided "Lets go to SPACE!"

[Arran]

Following Earth like science, it would make a dull tedious slow game..

First you need to invent black powder, then firecrackers, from there you need to invent weapons, ballistics, aerodynamics, mechanics, invent first gliders, then slowly combustion engines, balloons, and so on and so on..

Also, you need to develop theoretical sklls, like math, writing, astronomy, navigation, and trazillion other inventions before making a first flight.

Then Squad have to rename the game In Kevillication VI ..

And most of us would stopped playing before we even made first flight, it was afteral a game bout rockets and all about rockets (where later planes where added) what is noticable since atmospheric flight doesnt behold more physics atm and a one in a dozen Arcade Flight game.

And some thing are rough around the edges, unfinished, and even badly worked out, but those things can be expected in a game still under heavy development in alpha stage.

So i'm glad devs wont follow exact realism, not just squad, any Developer. Even those that claim to go for 100% realism, arent really making it 100% real, just for the sake of its a game, and it should be fun to play, not tedious. For that we have that other game we all play, called Life..

[Lone K.]

Sounds like "City of Embers."

[_Aramchek_]

Following Earth like science, it would make a dull tedious slow game..

First you need to invent black powder, then firecrackers, from there you need to invent weapons, ballistics, aerodynamics, mechanics, invent first gliders, then slowly combustion engines, balloons, and so on and so on..

Also, you need to develop theoretical sklls, like math, writing, astronomy, navigation, and trazillion other inventions before making a first flight.

Then Squad have to rename the game In Kevillication VI ..

Squad, if you make this, I will buy it.

[Firov]

Following Earth like science, it would make a dull tedious slow game..

First you need to invent black powder, then firecrackers, from there you need to invent weapons, ballistics, aerodynamics, mechanics, invent first gliders, then slowly combustion engines, balloons, and so on and so on..

Also, you need to develop theoretical sklls, like math, writing, astronomy, navigation, and trazillion other inventions before making a first flight.

Then Squad have to rename the game In Kevillication VI ..

And most of us would stopped playing before we even made first flight, it was afteral a game bout rockets and all about rockets (where later planes where added) what is noticable since atmospheric flight doesnt behold more physics atm and a one in a dozen Arcade Flight game.

And some thing are rough around the edges, unfinished, and even badly worked out, but those things can be expected in a game still under heavy development in alpha stage.

So i'm glad devs wont follow exact realism, not just squad, any Developer. Even those that claim to go for 100% realism, arent really making it 100% real, just for the sake of its a game, and it should be fun to play, not tedious. For that we have that other game we all play, called Life..

More realistically, it would start around the mid to late '50s where your primary science gains would initially come from aircraft and suborbital spaceplanes like the X-15. Over time you'd work your way up to probe cores and very basic rocketry components, which you could use to send robotic missions to the mun and other planets. Eventually you'd unlock the science needed for small manned space capsules. After a few suborbital hops with those you'd be able to advance to the technology level needed for manned exploration of the mun and so on.

They could make things more realistic without forcing the kind of tedium you describe. It's a bit disappointing that they didn't, but it's not really a huge bother to me since I generally avoid the career mode anyway, at least until they get a working economy going. At which point I'll just download a realistic/expanded tech tree mod anyway.

[matts73]

More realistically, it would start around the mid to late '50s where your primary science gains would initially come from aircraft and suborbital spaceplanes like the X-15. Over time you'd work your way up to probe cores and very basic rocketry components, which you could use to send robotic missions to the mun and other planets. Eventually you'd unlock the science needed for small manned space capsules. After a few suborbital hops with those you'd be able to advance to the technology level needed for manned exploration of the mun and so on.

They could make things more realistic without forcing the kind of tedium you describe. It's a bit disappointing that they didn't, but it's not really a huge bother to me since I generally avoid the career mode anyway, at least until they get a working economy going. At which point I'll just download a realistic/expanded tech tree mod anyway.

Japp absolutely agree

[Retread]

Squad, if you make this, I will buy it.

If there isn't a Kerbin mod for Civ V, there should be...

[SkyRender]

There is, of course, a pretty simple and fairly canon explanation for why Career mode starts out with the parts it does: Jeb basically jerryrigged the space program from the ground up and ignored all other advances made by the rest of the Kerbal race. It's not so much that Kerbals don't have things like jet planes, wheels, or even wings yet. It's more that, in his haste to get to space, Jeb decided it would be best to ignore those frivolities and just focus on perfecting what was necessary to get up into space. And as a result, other companies along the way "discover" technologies that the rest of the Kerbal race already knew about and sell them to the space program in exchange for scientific research data (and later, for money as well).

[KasperVld]

The Kerbal race has built an entire aerospace program consisting of a lighted runway and launchpad, a hangar, a tall construction building, a satellite tracking station, R&D facilities, etc....

....and the best power system they could come up with for their first space launch is.... nothing?

When you start this game you get nothing? No batteries, no fuel cells, no solar panels?

I know it's a game, and it's in alpha, etc. And I can suspend disbelief. After all, I'm flying little green dudes to the moon. But come ON!

Signed,

Anybody Who Ever Used Timewarp With SAS On

I believe (but am not sure) that HarvesteR mentioned that upgrades to the space center were a feature they're planning for future versions of KSP. It's a fallacy to see this game as completed in any way, and thus the highly advanced buildings with relatively low tech will probably be addressed. And there is ofcourse the gameplay aspect. You've addressed both in your post and you say you understand, which makes me wonder why you made this thread in the first place

[RSwordsman]

There is, of course, a pretty simple and fairly canon explanation for why Career mode starts out with the parts it does: Jeb basically jerryrigged the space program from the ground up and ignored all other advances made by the rest of the Kerbal race. It's not so much that Kerbals don't have things like jet planes, wheels, or even wings yet. It's more that, in his haste to get to space, Jeb decided it would be best to ignore those frivolities and just focus on perfecting what was necessary to get up into space. And as a result, other companies along the way "discover" technologies that the rest of the Kerbal race already knew about and sell them to the space program in exchange for scientific research data (and later, for money as well).

Your honor, the defense rests.

[FITorion]

Just FYI... You start with an engine that produces power... and the capsule has batteries inside it...

So you in fact do start with a power source and batteries...

[FlamedSteak]

Nobody ever said that KSP was supposed to make sense.

[Rowsdower]

The fandom of my username has never felt more appropriate. Straight from the MST3K theme song:

"If you're wondering how he eats and breathes

and other science facts (la-la-la),

Just repeat to yourself, "It's just a show,

I should really just relax..."

It's a lot of fun to poke at holes and pontificate on certain shortcomings in Kerbal society, despite the heavy technological advancements they've shown themselves capable of, but just remember that it's only a game at the end of the day . And *yes* I know there's plenty of actual science facts to be found in the game. Just saying. Oh and I do quite enjoy SkyRender's take on things.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Rowsdower
Science!

[John FX]

Myself I made a techtree that does start a bit more sensibly. You have batteries, wheels, a pod, some truss and a thermometer...

At some point you can fly about and have ant engines and oscars then you get supersonic. After that you get rockets but you`ve been mostly over Kerbin by then.

[Col_Jessep]

Let's be honest here for a moment: The second you get solar panels the KSP career becomes rather dull. Flying to the Mun and Minmus with a limited supply of el. charge is at least a bit of a challenge.

[katateochi]

While there are things that seem odd, I like the current tech tree. I think it's quite cleverly designed to make you realise what can be achieved with efficient design. If you have lot of parts, new players will be tempted to make an arc to start with (u know, something that has two of everything on it). Then they will be frustrated that they can't get anywhere, or will feel that the only way to get anywhere is to build bigger and bigger and they'll miss the lesson that teaches you that a tiny amount of fuel can get a small craft a very long way and you don't need much power to turn it.

[Javster]

As HarvesteR said: "If we wanted 100% realism we'd go play outside"

Or something along those lines