Is KSP becoming like Minecraft?

[irongut]

the devs stop listening to the community and decide to do what THEY want by adding useless or non-essential features and putting good ideas on hold.

This is Squad's game, not yours and they can develop it any way they want. If you don't like what they are doing tough, many other people will.

Then it started going a little down with career mode with its strange tech tree

I like carreer mode thank you. It forces you to be smarter and think about your builds rather than just using the same parts all the time.

How can they know what we want and what not? By guessing?

They may pay some attention to forum threads but at the end of the day they have their own plan and MUST follow that. If they, or any other developer, did what every forum denizen wanted they would end up with an unplayable peice of trash that no one would play.

Is it that hard to give us at least one planet in 1 year? It literally takes some 2 days to add one.

Literally 2 days? So you know the exact process and everything it details from design to graphics to codeing and testing? Or are you just one of those people who have no idea what the word literally means? I am a developer. I can tell you that very few features can be added to a large code base in 2 days and certainly not something as big as a whole planet.

I think people on forums should shut the hell up because they are damaging the games they claim to love.

[Themohawkninja]

I agree with both answers.

Listening to the community is a way of going in the right direction, as not listening to your community risks the game being a flop, which risks bankrupting your company.

On the other hand, KSP has always been developed along the "oh hey, this mod is cool, let's add it to the game" lines of Minecraft, and it has only ever benefited the game.

[ddavis425]

I think the main problem is that most of the KSP community refuses to accept any form of criticism (this is slowly starting to change). Anything that goes against a feature or decision is written off as entitlement, whining, or complaining. The argument "it's an alpha so stop complaining about problems" is often brought up. People love the devs to the point where it is unbelievable that they can ever do wrong. This is not how game development should work, the whole reason Minecraft ended up the way it is is because the developers saw huge amounts of praise at everything they did, good or bad.

[J.Random]

I'm perfectly OK with what Squad is doing with the game. At first I was thinking that they should make MP only after the main game (so that the game isn't specifically tailored for MP), and only as a paid DLC. But then again, everyone who wants MP would simply use KMP mod instead, so instead of monetary gain there would be reputational loss. So I'm OK even with MP.

What I think Squad should do, is to create an official list of 1.0 KSP features. Not as in wiki, fluid and unconfirmed. It should be official, it should be precise, and it should be final. Everything else should be a DLC, and that's actually the very first time I'm ready to support the idea of DLC. Otherwise, "early access" may result in low sales on actual release and project abandonment. And I think Squad should denounce their promise to give such DLC for free to those who bought the game early. Those who whined and protested a year ago are brainless imbeciles.

[Galileo Kerbonaut]

I think the main problem is that most of the KSP community refuses to accept any form of criticism (this is slowly starting to change). Anything that goes against a feature or decision is written off as entitlement, whining, or complaining. The argument "it's an alpha so stop complaining about problems" is often brought up. People love the devs to the point where it is unbelievable that they can ever do wrong. This is not how game development should work, the whole reason Minecraft ended up the way it is is because the developers saw huge amounts of praise at everything they did, good or bad.

It's easier to persuade people if you are polite than if you are confrontational... or as we say in Dutch: It's easier to catch flies with sirup then vinegar. I think there is nothing wrong with a little positive attitude.

[r4pt0r]

This is not how game development should work

you're right. the game shouldn't even be released until it is fully complete and the developers are happy with it.

[LethalDose]

This reply right after clears it out pretty well.

Yes, it does, and what Harv said:

"That's not quite right. Firstly, there's a difference between saying 'resources' and 'resource mining'. Resources already exist as Fuel, Oxy, Mono and such, but mining, more specifically in the way it was proposed in that old chart, is what got shelved.

We might still come up with something better, more streamlined, to cover the 'bases' (pun not intended, just happy accident) that the resources plan was meant to take on, but it's still too early to talk about anything concrete, and that's also a good thing, considering there's a lot still to come, and all our plans are constantly being updated as the game grows."

Contradicts your statement:

About that: resources are actually shelved for good, it's not a myth.

They're open to something better, they haven't permanently ditched the concept.

Edited December 25, 2013 by LethalDose
Included full post & emphasis

[SirSnuggles]

I for one, much prefer an organized and polished game over fancy new stuff added every week. I am hoping they add biomes to every planet and give a reason to go back to Duna or Eve, etc. once you have all the science (for most planets only surface, near, and high above). I also am looking forward to reentry effects that can damage your ship and better aerodynamics. Everyone wants something different. I think you wrote this in a fit of emotion.

[stupid_chris]

"But mining, more specifically in the way it was proposed in that old chart, is what got shelved."

What you guys and what everyone talks about and want is this, and it's not happening. There will be no drills and nothing, so I would call resources as everyone expected them shelved. As for other possibilities, I would be careful with that, and it won't be anything like you guys are expecting, probably as he said during the stream, something more lined for craft repairs, and without the mining.

[LethalDose]

What you guys and what everyone talks about and want is this, and it's not happening. There will be no drills and nothing, so I would call resources as everyone expected them shelved.

Unless you have other information about this that hasn't been linked, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree about how to interpret HarvesteR's posts.

[Tuareg]

I think the main problem is that most of the KSP community refuses to accept any form of criticism (this is slowly starting to change). Anything that goes against a feature or decision is written off as entitlement, whining, or complaining. The argument "it's an alpha so stop complaining about problems" is often brought up. People love the devs to the point where it is unbelievable that they can ever do wrong. This is not how game development should work, the whole reason Minecraft ended up the way it is is because the developers saw huge amounts of praise at everything they did, good or bad.

totally agree, many ppl has so low demand if squad would release the game now as 1.0, they would still clap. anybody is brave enough to say something is wrong gets hammered...

[Themohawkninja]

"But mining, more specifically in the way it was proposed in that old chart, is what got shelved."

That doesn't mean that mining isn't going to happen, that just means that it isn't going to happen the way it was originally planned.

[Themohawkninja]

I think the main problem is that most of the KSP community refuses to accept any form of criticism (this is slowly starting to change). Anything that goes against a feature or decision is written off as entitlement, whining, or complaining. The argument "it's an alpha so stop complaining about problems" is often brought up. People love the devs to the point where it is unbelievable that they can ever do wrong. This is not how game development should work, the whole reason Minecraft ended up the way it is is because the developers saw huge amounts of praise at everything they did, good or bad.

The fact that the game is an alpha is a legitimate point though.

[KasperVld]

totally agree, many ppl has so low demand if squad would release the game now as 1.0, they would still clap. anybody is brave enough to say something is wrong gets hammered...

Is it low demand or realism? The way the game is right now is enough for people to spend hundreds of hours in it, reducing the cost of entertainment per hour to mere pennies. That's good value for money in my opinion. The game has a long way to go still, and many options left unexplored, so I'm definitely looking forward to it, but I'm well aware that the current state of KSP - with some polishing - could be considered enough of a game to call it quits. I haven't seen anyone getting hammered for saying the game is not complete, but I have seen discussions and apparently a majority doesn't share the opinion of those who are 'brave enough to say something', whatever that may mean.

[Liowen]

totally agree, many ppl has so low demand if squad would release the game now as 1.0, they would still clap. anybody is brave enough to say something is wrong gets hammered...

No one is saying that the game is "perfect", but complaining over things that are not in game yet is kind of odd. Even looking back I do not see anyone saying the game should be released today, but more so there are more important things that could be done first than just add to the game for the sake of adding things. Imagine if no balancing or optimization had been done since .17 and more was added just to keep a very small percentage of people demanded it, would it be fun or a huge pain to do anything? The game should be optimized for what it has now and then add more to make it easier to balance to what is already in a good state, not doing it in reverse just to please people.

Also I would rather see the term shelved as opposed to canned, a shelved idea has a better chance of being brought back in at a later date than a canned one does. Remember what seems easy on paper to those who do not develop games is much more complex than they believe. All this said without "hammering" on any one, but rather trying to explain to people to be patient as things take time.

[spudcosmic]

They never said they were discontinuing resources, nor did they say they were prioritizing multiplayer over it, in fact, I remember then saying multiplayer was a long term goal that they want to work on after the game is mostly finished. Currently they're working on refining the career mode, as they said that was what needed the most work. Read this for more about multiplayer http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/12/12/kerbal-space-program-committed-to-multiplayer-career-and-sandbox-modes/ I don't understand why people have to go rabid once a game is going in a direction they don't like. Personally, adding more parts is kind of a waste of time considering they already have a good selection of parts, and if you need more there is always mods. Planets is another story, Planet making in very time consuming, and I think we already have plenty of planets and making more also isn't necessary.

[ddavis425]

They never said they were discontinuing resources, nor did they say they were prioritizing multiplayer over it, in fact, I remember then saying multiplayer was a long term goal that they want to work on after the game is mostly finished. Currently they're working on refining the career mode, as they said that was what needed the most work. Read this for more about multiplayer http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/12/12/kerbal-space-program-committed-to-multiplayer-career-and-sandbox-modes/ I don't understand why people have to go rabid once a game is going in a direction they don't like. Personally, adding more parts is kind of a waste of time considering they already have a good selection of parts, and if you need more there is always mods. Planets is another story, Planet making in very time consuming, and I think we already have plenty of planets and making more also isn't necessary.

You must have not watched KerbalKon. Harvester confirmed that resources mining will not happen and that multiplayer will happen after career mode.

[leax256]

well let's see, ksp just got an update that had peformance increases while minecraft went from ~120+ fps vanilla(far render distance and high settings elsewhere) when I first got my pc(not overclocking) around minecraft 1.5 and can barely scratch 40 at low settings with a 10% oc on the gpu and a 15% oc on the cpu.

I'd say ksp is not becoming minecraft since how fast the game runs is just as important gameply wise as the features in the game.

and don't say "your pc was new then", I know how to maintain the like new peformance.

Edited December 25, 2013 by leax256

[stupid_chris]

Unless you have other information about this that hasn't been linked, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree about how to interpret HarvesteR's posts.

That doesn't mean that mining isn't going to happen, that just means that it isn't going to happen the way it was originally planned.

Resources mining is not happening guys. Maybe HarvesteR was not clear in his choice of words, but the mining part will not be included with the current flow of ideas of the devs. Other stuff involving resources may be implied, but no mining is currently planned.

Now guys, time for a mandatory moderator post.

Everyone take a deep breath and keep calm. The heat is very rapîdly rising in here and the tension is building up. We already had to do some cleaning.

It's Christmas, let's not turn this very beautiful day into something that everyone will eventually regret okay? Go take a short walk in the snow and breathe some fresh air, or go get a drink if you're in the middle of summer. No need to get angry here, no one will gain anything.

From now on, posts that break forum rules will be removed without warnings and may be subject to infractions directly. That said, thread carefuly as our CM said, and keep a calm and polite tone when posting, this thread has a lot of volatile potential.

Thank to everyone.

[syfyguy64]

>Implying minecraft is bad.

Anyways, more players there are, less likely to hear good ideas over annoying ones, like mulitplayer.

I'd like multiplayer just as much as the next guy, but we need to finish the game first, and then it could be a DLC for 5.00 (Least for purchases after May) or something.

[Tuareg]

Is it low demand or realism? The way the game is right now is enough for people to spend hundreds of hours in it, reducing the cost of entertainment per hour to mere pennies. That's good value for money in my opinion. The game has a long way to go still, and many options left unexplored, so I'm definitely looking forward to it, but I'm well aware that the current state of KSP - with some polishing - could be considered enough of a game to call it quits. I haven't seen anyone getting hammered for saying the game is not complete, but I have seen discussions and apparently a majority doesn't share the opinion of those who are 'brave enough to say something', whatever that may mean.

low demand sry to say but I'm playing PC games over 20 years and what KSP can offer atm is less than an average C64 game can offer gameplaywise. that many ppl can't get bored of launching their 456336643253345th rocket with the same parts and targets is an other thing. they wanna implement multiplayer and career mode but the sandbox is unplayable. lack of parts, lack of mechanisms, lack of "to do"-s etc... And don't think i gave up after launching a couple of rockets. I have science stations on planets with tons of rovers and returncrafts, fully fitted science mothership even have an abandoned ghost station but there is nothing beyond this. kerbals still cant do anything with their cute hands, science still doesnt work or do anything in sandbox, SAS is still crap, aerodynamics is still absent etc etc etc. the game could have a ton of awesome feature after 3 years of development but in reality it has nothing. and im a dev so i know how development works. there should be priorities. finish something before you start to add extra. the amount of lifesaving mods show how little the vanilla game offers

[Moar Boosters]

Poll doesn't even make sense.

"Are the devs doing the right thing right now?"

Yes, *negative statement*

No *Positive statement*

Does not compute.

[syfyguy64]

Poll doesn't even make sense.

"Are the devs doing the right thing right now?"

Yes, *negative statement*

No *Positive statement*

Does not compute.

Ha! Just realized.

[m1xte]

Minecraft was fun single player.

Multiplayer is all about who got biggest diamond pick.

I don't see any fun in multiplayer.

I don't want anybody in my game to generate lag.

I think squad is getting blinded from their own success.

They are kicking out people who seems to have better skills and ideas than their own.

(Nova parts, http://pastebin.com/3vvjushy)

I hope some spinoffs will emerge.

[Themohawkninja]

They are kicking out people who seems to have better skills and ideas than their own.

Since when?