Refining the Science Archives

[Queeg]

I like the idea of the science archive... it's a definite step in the right direction.

However, at the moment, it's one of those great solutions that has the advantage of being completely accurate and not all that useful.

As a log, it's complete. All the information is both technical and precise. The filtering helps a little. As does the "progress" bars.

In the case of "do I need to go back to [x] for more science?" it's relatively handy.

The ability to sort by Value to see which science still needs to be completed is also handy.

Each science experiment has maximum and a current value... so show those. In effect, simplify things by replacing "Current Data Value:" and "Science" with a simple "Collected: x of y". The "Data Value" is one of those fields that has significance to the programmers and background calculations, but as players I'm not convinced we really need to know it. And whilst "Science" as a "how much so far" is simple enough, it's biggest use it by comparing it with the overall total. For example, I can sort by "Science", but sorting doesn't really give me any new, useful information. Even sorting by experiment name isn't that useful, since the names all start with the type of experiment. As I say, accurate but not all that helpful.

I'd also like to see experiments that haven't been started yet. Perhaps show them grey'd out, etc. But if people are going to have goals, those goals need to be presented to the player within the game. So whilst I may not have done a surface sample at the Mun Polar Crater, it would be nice if the game let me know I could/should. Without going outside the game to wiki's, etc. Not least because right now, the game has no way of letting new players know what biomes are available. Plus little stuff, like "did I forget to do a lower atmosphere experiment around Minmus?" or "now that I have my Gravity Detector, where should I go use it?".

Next, some of the Biomes aren't unique. For example, my current archive include TWO "Kerbin's Shores". I thought I'd seen other examples, but I restarted recently - so I'm not 100% certain.

Also, a tiny comment. Right now, there's no way within the game to know what biomes exist and where to go looking for them. I realise this is something for the far future, but I wanted to highlight it mainly because it's one of those things that needs to be at the back of your minds. It can't be an afterthought. I suppose at the heart of it, it's the difference between a single player campaign and a sandbox game. Sandbox players, especially early adopters are happy to refer to wikis and youtube videos. Future campaign players are going to want everything that's relevant to them to be within the game. Right now, that's not the case.

Any chance we could we get a "hide complete" toggle for experiements that are 100% complete? Although tbh, that would only be of use if experiments that hadn't been started were shown by default. Otherwise you're into the confusion of "is it not shown because its complete or unstarted?"

Finally, a bit of feedback about the diminishing returns nature of experiments. In my experience so far, the 1st experiment generally gets you to about 75% complete. The 2nd to about 95%. Then the 3rd to 100%. As someone who likes to see things completed, it's a little disheartening. Firstly by the nature of needing to do everything 3 times to be 100% complete. Secondly because the 2nd and 3rd science rewards are fairly trivial compared with doing "something new". It's not quite right, although I'm not sure how to fix it.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Queeg

[Atoning Unifex]

I totally agree that we should be able to see all the possible experiments (and maybe their science values so we know how important they are). It would be nice to know what to actually aim for.

Re the biomes, I've not noticed any duplicate names yet personally - although I've not really looked at the archives, because there's not much point seeing what I've already done TBH!!. What I would like to see, though, is some way of identifying where the various biomes are so I can more easily decide where to land.

I also totally agree with your comments on the diminishing returns on experiments. I can sort of see why they did it - to make it so we don't get everything at once - but it just introduces grind. I simply don't bother with the 'small change' gathered by the 2nd or 3rd attempts usually. The grind is exacerbated by the fact that when I unlock a new science device I then have to re-visit all previous ones to use the new device at that location. One way to reduce this is to bundle science devices together in the research tree so that you unlock several at once, and only occasionally. This would require you to revisit locations but only when you have a new bundle of tools to use. As for the diminishing returns, well I think they simply should just give 100% research for 1 visit!

[justidutch]

Greetings from a newbie and first poster! Started playing when .22 was released, and only ever in career mode.

I initially found the diminishing returns thing annoying also, but after thinking about it, it does reflect 'real life' (whatever that is) more accurately. We don't always get everything 100% accurate the first time, so confirming a scientific experiment's results is useful and necessary. Therefore, I think it should stay in the game. Why not save your 2nd and 3rd iteration for when you unlock the new devices? Then take two of the new devices, since they are tiny anyways, and boom, you're done!

Totally agree on the need of an in-game biome map and clearer understanding of what remains to be discovered. Cheers!