Is there a dirty nomenclature of "black hole" and the "no hair theorm"?

[Themohawkninja]

I read a book on stellar evolution a while back, and it mentioned that the term "black hole" ended up being used, not only because it was an apt description, but because it annoyed the French scientists since the term "black hole" in French is a euphemism for a women's genitals. It then goes on to mention that the "no hair theorem"'s nomenclature is due to another chance to make fun of the French scientists for the same reason.

I can't seem to find anything that says that the French term for "black hole" is a euphemism, let alone that such euphemism was partly to blame for why we call such stellar remnants "black holes" and why the theorem is named what it is.

So, does anyone know whether or not (A) the French term of "black hole" is a euphemism, and ( that the nomenclature for both the celestial object and the theorem is partly based off of this euphemism?

[Kinglet]

Should have been called "Black Star" or "Black Vortex". Hole is a stupid name.

[Themohawkninja]

Should have been called "Black Star" or "Black Vortex". Hole is a stupid name.

Why do you think it's stupid? A hole is merely something that objects can fall into, and objects do tend to fall in to a black hole.

[Evans310]

Should have been called "Black Star" or "Black Vortex". Hole is a stupid name.

-1 for contributing nothing of relevance to the thread.

Why do you think it's stupid? A hole is merely something that objects can fall into, and objects do tend to fall in to a black hole.

Please, don't feed the troll.

OP, my French is less than perfect, but the only term I've heard for a black hole is "trou noire", which is very much a direct translation. I can think of a few slang terms for lady parts, none of which resemble "trou noire". However, one thing I've learned in my very modest travels is that slang varies considerably from region to region, even within the same language. So I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility. That being said, it's the first time I've heard of such a reason for the term.

[andrewas]

I believe that Hawking claims the same in Universe in a Nutshell. I'd check, but my copy is on the bottom of an unstable stack of books. IIRC, its an idiom for the anus, not the ******, which fits more closely with 'black hole'.

[Kinglet]

-1 for contributing nothing of relevance to the thread.

Please, don't feed the troll.

OP, my French is less than perfect, but the only term I've heard for a black hole is "trou noire", which is very much a direct translation. I can think of a few slang terms for lady parts, none of which resemble "trou noire". However, one thing I've learned in my very modest travels is that slang varies considerably from region to region, even within the same language. So I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility. That being said, it's the first time I've heard of such a reason for the term.

Seriously... How am I even trolling? This is related to the thread. But black holes are not holes in many way. They are spheres. Not holes.

[CalculusWarrior]

Seriously... How am I even trolling? This is related to the thread. But black holes are not holes in many way. They are spheres. Not holes.

They're holes...IN THE FABRIC OF THE UNIVERSE! Or not. I suppose they're just super dense regions of space, but black hole definitely sounds cooler.

[Evans310]

Seriously... How am I even trolling? This is related to the thread. But black holes are not holes in many way. They are spheres. Not holes.

I just don't see how complaining that you think the name of a thing is stupid is in any way related to the OP's questions on the etymology of the name. You complaining about the subject of a thread without contributing anything to the discussion is irrelevant and adds nothing to the discussion. Hence you're posting just for the sake of getting a response to your complaints. To me, this = trolling.

If you feel that strongly that it's a poor name choice, start a new thread to discuss it. Don't clog up this thread about name origins with a seperate issue.

[Charzy]

They may not be holes, but they're also neither stars nor vortices.

[Evans310]

I believe that Hawking claims the same in Universe in a Nutshell. I'd check, but my copy is on the bottom of an unstable stack of books. IIRC, its an idiom for the anus, not the ******, which fits more closely with 'black hole'.

I don't recall such a discourse, but I did some checking and, since I am unsure which box or shelf my copy of Nutshell currently resides in or on, I went to the interwebs. From Hawking's Blog:

"[snip] Such objects were given the name Black Holes, by the American physicist John Wheeler, who was one of the first to recognise their importance, and the problems they pose. The name caught on quickly. To Americans, it suggested something dark and mysterious, while to the British, there was the added resonance of the Black Hole of Calcutta. But the French, being French, saw a more risqué meaning. For years, they resisted the name, trou noir, claiming it was obscene. But that was a bit like trying to stand against le weekend, and other franglais. In the end, they had to give in. Who can resist a name that is such a winner? "

So there we have it. I guess trou noir is indeed euphemistic - though which hole it refers to is somewhat ambiguous...

[Kinglet]

They may not be holes, but they're also neither stars nor vortices.

They are made of star.

[Kryten]

They are made of star.

By that definition, you're a star.

[CalculusWarrior]

By that definition, you're a star.

As the legendary Carl Sagan says, we are all starstuff.

[Kinglet]

By that definition, you're a star.

No. We are made of processed star. Black Holes are made of unchanged star.

[Themohawkninja]

No. We are made of processed star. Black Holes are made of unchanged star.

Um... I would argue that a star that has blown out its outer layers and imploded with a force so large that it overcomes degeneracy pressure has changed quite a bit.

[Albert VDS]

Objects and phenomenons are usually named before we find out what they are and how they work.

They are made of star.

Do you mean that they are made of what is left of the dying star?

That is what it was before it became a black hole.

We don't actually know what it's made of or what is going on at the center.

[Kulebron]

Any moderators out there? That troll just throws some random phrases in, and others perceive this as arguing, which ruins the thread. Stop this ASAP.

[Themohawkninja]

Any moderators out there? That troll just throws some random phrases in, and others perceive this as arguing, which ruins the thread. Stop this ASAP.

Arguments are a good thing, and he isn't trolling.

Not to mention it's about black holes, which is related to this thread.

[Arran]

Black Hole, translated into dutch is "Zwart Gat", and a Gat is sometimes also slang for anus, allthough i dont know or ever heared of anyone that thought the term was offending.

But the french one i just heared for the first time..

[Warhorse]

Interesting ... I had heard many years ago that the main objection to 'black hole' came from the *Russians*, since the term apparently had obscene connotations in that language. Never heard about the French ...

[Brotoro]

Interesting ... I had heard many years ago that the main objection to 'black hole' came from the *Russians*, since the term apparently had obscene connotations in that language. Never heard about the French ...

This is what I heard as well, that it was an obscene phrase in Russian, and therefore the Russians preferred to call black holes 'frozen stars', a name that comes from fact that (as seen from outside) the stellar material collapsing in to form the black hole appears to slow down and come to a halt as it reaches the event horizon (where the gravitational redshift becomes so great that the matter disappears from view).

I have never confirmed this with a Russian.

[Nibb31]

I read a book on stellar evolution a while back, and it mentioned that the term "black hole" ended up being used, not only because it was an apt description, but because it annoyed the French scientists since the term "black hole" in French is a euphemism for a women's genitals. It then goes on to mention that the "no hair theorem"'s nomenclature is due to another chance to make fun of the French scientists for the same reason.

I am French.

There is no more double meaning to the term "trou noir" in French, than there is to "black hole" in English. Whoever wrote that book is talking out of his arse.

[Themohawkninja]

I am French.

There is no more double meaning to the term "trou noir" in French, than there is to "black hole" in English. Whoever wrote that book is talking out of his arse.

Well for one thing, somebody else quoted Steven Hawking's book on it, and I don't think he's one to talk out of his arse.

Secondly, I'm sure "black hole" is an English euphemism if you try hard enough, as (for example) I've heard tales of what happens if you Google "black body curve" without SafeSearch on.

[Kinglet]

Arguments are a good thing, and he isn't trolling.

Not to mention it's about black holes, which is related to this thread.

I just don't get why everybody thinks I'm trolling...

[TheGatesofLogic]

eh, i have always hated the common nomenclature of "black-hole" You know back in the day we called those *******s collapsars, which was more of a conjunction of collapsed and star than anything and it both sounds more correct, being more than just a juxtapositional phrase (that was a lame joke,) and actually describes the nature of of the entity as well.