MrZurkon Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Many people think that the Rapier engine is pretty much the Sabre engine. Well you are correct... Sorta.The sabre takes oxygen from the atmosphere to power its rocket engines, While the Rapier just takes the oxidizer from it's tanks.But you can actually make a proper sabre engine by downloading Lando's Skylon pack. it comes with a sabre engine part but it is simply just a rocket engine. The Special thing is the intake which takes the oxygen out of the atmosphere. If you couple that with the Rapier, You have a fully functioning Sabre engine!(I am not sure if Lando Has updated the Skylon pack.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FITorion Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Copyright issues.That's what they said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofessional Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 The RAPIER does take oxygen from the atmosphere.It is functionally identical to the SABRE, except it doesn't require a pre-cooler and instead just uses the regular intakes.The name of course is just a copyright issue as mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charzy Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Try changing the mode to air breathing. While in an oxygenated atmosphere, the RAPIER uses oxygen, and then automatically switches to oxidiser once it stops getting enough oxygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cydonian Monk Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 MrZurkon is mostly correct, though his post is worded perhaps slightly confusingly. It has been proposed that SABREs capture and store some of their "rocket mode" oxidizer from the atmosphere during ascent. Therefore the Skylon could launch with less oxidizer on board than was needed for "rocket mode" above the atmosphere. This is referring to the SABRE system as a whole, intakes and all, whereas the RAPIER in KSP represents only the combustion chamber of the SABRE. I'm not sure this design is the current working model though, and the literature I've seen on SABRE/Skylon indicates it will launch with preloaded LOX. RE's own materials don't discuss oxidizer capture for post-atmospheric use:http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre_howworks.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Buddy Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm pretty sure the main reason is copyright, but they also mad a Kerbal-esqe pun. A sabre and rapier are both kind of swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinglet Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Many people think that the Rapier engine is pretty much the Sabre engine. Well you are correct... Sorta.The sabre takes oxygen from the atmosphere to power its rocket engines, While the Rapier just takes the oxidizer from it's tanks.But you can actually make a proper sabre engine by downloading Lando's Skylon pack. it comes with a sabre engine part but it is simply just a rocket engine. The Special thing is the intake which takes the oxygen out of the atmosphere. If you couple that with the Rapier, You have a fully functioning Sabre engine!(I am not sure if Lando Has updated the Skylon pack.)Wat. You you are saying the rapier only takes oxidizer from its tanks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahgineer Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Since the rapier is based off of the sabre, it functions identically: it uses air from the Atmosphere while in the lower parts of it, then switches over to Oxidizer once the intake can no longer take in enough air to fuel the reaction. the only difference between the rapier and the sabre is the Rapier's lack of a precooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draeath Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 One could argue that the precooler is "part" of the engine, and is abstracted into it in-game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleverClothe Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 The RAPIER does take oxygen from the atmosphere.It is functionally identical to the SABRE, except it doesn't require a pre-cooler and instead just uses the regular intakes.The name of course is just a copyright issue as mentioned.This. Since KSP does not simulate everything that happens, the RAPIER is implemented in one part and just needs some intakes to supply IntakeAir.MrZurkon is mostly correct, though his post is worded perhaps slightly confusingly. It has been proposed that SABREs capture and store some of their "rocket mode" oxidizer from the atmosphere during ascent. Therefore the Skylon could launch with less oxidizer on board than was needed for "rocket mode" above the atmosphere. This is referring to the SABRE system as a whole, intakes and all, whereas the RAPIER in KSP represents only the combustion chamber of the SABRE. I'm not sure this design is the current working model though, and the literature I've seen on SABRE/Skylon indicates it will launch with preloaded LOX. RE's own materials don't discuss oxidizer capture for post-atmospheric use:http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre_howworks.htmlThe SABRE engine will burn oxygen from the air directly like a jet. When the oxygen runs out, it would switch to internal LOX. Also, the combustion chamber is special as well. The RAPIER doesn't need a special intake because KSP does not simulate the compression heating of the air at high speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodbunny Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Rapier engines are a terrible downgrade from the Sabres...and the flame isn't as good either..they look rather wimpy comparatively. Hopefully someone can make the old B9 Sabres roar againEDIT: Got the Sabres back.. good times Edited January 8, 2014 by Bloodbunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsmak Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Rapier feels kinda awkward to pronounce, so I pronounce it French style. Hrapierre.Just in case anybody wanted to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draeath Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 It's a French word, so I'd hope you'd say it French-like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR4Y Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Copyright issues? Isn't Bac9(the creator of the B9 mod) in the dev team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleb Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Copyright issues? Isn't Bac9(the creator of the B9 mod) in the dev team?Not because of the the mod, the real thing.http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AletzN1 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I think the thing it means is that the sabre is a "rocket" that: in atmosphere it uses liquid fuel and oxygen (notice "rocket" not "jet") and when there is no oxygen, it uses stored oxydizer.It has the power of a rocket in both modes.(Maybe, i dont know, thats just my interpretation. Maybe im wrong, i dont use sabres that much.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR4Y Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Not because of the the mod, the real thing.http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre.htmlThen call the engine SABER and tell Reaction Engines to suck a sugarcane plantation of richards.Fing copyright. It's not even the same type of copyright. SQUAD is not recreating the engine for real. Edited January 8, 2014 by sal_vager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleb Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Then call the engine SABER and tell Reaction Engines to suck a sugarcane plantation of richards.Fing copyright. It's not even the same type of copyright. SQUAD is not recreating the engine for real.You have to get permission to use other companies trademarks/copyrights even in a game, it's just how it is. Verbally abusing them wouldn't assuage a potential lawsuit . Better to just avoid the issue from the start. Edited January 8, 2014 by sal_vager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJEN Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 The sabre takes oxygen from the atmosphere to power its rocket engines, While the Rapier just takes the oxidizer from it's tanks.The Raipier is a Jet/Rocket hybrid.Do your research, will you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR4Y Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Well, we should have an answer from Reaction Engines soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingon Admiral Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I find it extremely despressing how many people here obviously didn't even bother to read the opening post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotblack Desiato Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 for the technical reason: I guess, a part that creates oxidizer out of air during the flight should help (+a simple tank that stores oxidizer).and regarding the name: the owners of the trademark SABRE-Engine might be happy that someone recreates their engine in a computer game? usually, it's just a problem with car-brands. they don't like that someone can actually destroy their car in the game. but this issue doesn't exist here with rockets, and rockomax is not their competitor maybe there are even KSP-players amongst the employees of Reaction Engines Limited, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draeath Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 You know, copyright is not trademark... but I don't see SABRE on their site called out as a trademark. It's probably a non-issue, but it's not a bad idea to play it safe. A rose by any other name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vidboi Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I doubt it's anything to do with trademark or copyright, KSP has always striven to not exactly replicate real life - calling it SABRE would have gone against the whole style of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxman Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Then call the engine SABER and tell Reaction Engines to suck a sugarcane plantation of richards.Fing copyright. It's not even the same type of copyright. SQUAD is not recreating the engine for real.Just shows how [FLUFFY BUNNIES] up our society has become. It is the same thing with for example racing games/simulators they have to pay money and license the damn cars just to use a real brand name in their game. Now we have even gotten to the point where even vague ideas can be patented.. it just gets worse and worse witch each day. Edited January 8, 2014 by sal_vager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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