Rocket SLed Launch to LKO

[Kasuha]

http://imgur.com/a/RMaLB#0

Your imgur albums will display much better if you remove the #0 at the end.

I'd say my entry was definitely much more in spirit of this challenge than yours.

[Whatshtisthis]

I think it should be clear how the rocket is supposed to be launched.

Does it start horizontal on the sled? Does the sled have to be on rocket power? Things like that.

Gotta prevent people putting some rover wheels on their rocket, rolling it to the end of the runway at 20m/s and launching it vertically.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Whatshtisthis

[Kasuha]

Looking at 1096bimu's entry, I remembered I have another rocket sled, too.

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[HazelPine]

I think it should be clear how the rocket is supposed to be launched.

Does it start horizontal on the sled? Does the sled have to be on rocket power? Things like that.

Gotta prevent people putting some rover wheels on their rocket, rolling it to the end of the runway at 20m/s and launching it vertically.

Thank you, Whatshtisthis. I though it was clear enough, but oh well. New rules are as follows:

-Must be a rocket without wings

-sled must achieve a speed of AT LEAST 100m/s on ground

-SLED can be powered by anything except the infiniglide bug, but the sled does not leave the ground

-rocket must start out on sled horizontally

I hope I get entries with the spirit of the challenge now.

@Kusuha- even though your design is cool, it does not fit the challenge rules and will not be on the leaderboard (both the ones you showed). No hard feelings!

@1096bimu- Sorry, but your design will not be counted until it is meeting the challenge rules, but nothing a °couple° boosters shouldn't fix.

[DJEN]

147 tones, +10 for no wheels = 157 tones. And of course, it completely follows the rules as stated in the OP:

-It does move across terrain

-It is rocket powered, partially at least

-It does not leave the runway

-No jet engine, No wings, No Debug Menu

-Moded FAR

-snips of clever doings-

You never fail to surprise me.

Nice exploiting there!

[Kasuha]

@Kusuha- even though your design is cool, it does not fit the challenge rules and will not be on the leaderboard (both the ones you showed). No hard feelings!

Your own design doesn't qualify either. Your own rule:

-Rocket sled must NOT leave the ground OR Runway

I can see remains of your sled flying in the air. It clearly left not just runway but the ground, too.

No hard feelings!

[HazelPine]

GAHHHHHHHHHH! Now I have to fly it again!!! (Oh well, i guess I will make a smaller one this time...) But what I meant is BEFORE you jettison it... but I jettisioned it in mid air from the runway.......

[HazelPine]

Hey there! Now i have a revised entry that follows my rules... my entry is rocket sled mk4 for obvious reasons.

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[Kasuha]

Edit: nevermind.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Kasuha

[Kasuha]

Okay, have one serious entry.

I detached from the sled before the end of runway, it just continued to thrust forward. All engines were perfectly horizontal all the time till I detached from the sled and started turning. Winglets should be ok, you used canards after all.

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[HazelPine]

Ok Kasuha, you will be in stock leader board, but I will only be able to update it tomorrow morning.

[1096bimu]

Thank you, Whatshtisthis. I though it was clear enough, but oh well. New rules are as follows:

-Must be a rocket without wings

-sled must achieve a speed of AT LEAST 100m/s on ground

-SLED can be powered by anything except the infiniglide bug, but the sled does not leave the ground

-rocket must start out on sled horizontally

I hope I get entries with the spirit of the challenge now.

@Kusuha- even though your design is cool, it does not fit the challenge rules and will not be on the leaderboard (both the ones you showed). No hard feelings!

@1096bimu- Sorry, but your design will not be counted until it is meeting the challenge rules, but nothing a °couple° boosters shouldn't fix.

Hey let's stop changing the rules. Why should we participate in your challenge if you keep changing the rules just to disqualify us?

[1096bimu]

You never fail to surprise me.

Nice exploiting there!

Except there is no such a thing as a light barrier.

[HazelPine]

Hey let's stop changing the rules. Why should we participate in your challenge if you keep changing the rules just to disqualify us?

I don't want do disqualify people, but it seems that everybody is looking for a loophole or exploit in the rules, and they decide that the challenge must change because of 'realism'. But now I won't change the rules because there is probably enough to stop people from looking for an easy " but the rules didn't say this" kind of entry.

[1096bimu]

I don't want do disqualify people, but it seems that everybody is looking for a loophole or exploit in the rules, and they decide that the challenge must change because of 'realism'. But now I won't change the rules because there is probably enough to stop people from looking for an easy " but the rules didn't say this" kind of entry.

Your challenge was never realistic to start with, because launching this way does not save you any fuel or complexity. So why should you worry about it?

[Xeldrak]

Your challenge was never realistic to start with, because launching this way does not save you any fuel or complexity. So why should you worry about it?

Because it is annoying if you start a challenge, tell the people quite clearly what they want and then they try to exploit any loophole they can find, instead of using their common sense.

People that organize challenges are not paid to do so, they put up with a lot of work so that you can have some fun. Try to respect that. If you actively try to find loopholes and do anything you can do to break the challenge, you are doing nobody a favor, you are just acting like a jerk.

You discourage other people from taking part in the community by this behaviour, because they'll get the feeling, that they have to go to a lawyer before they are allowed to post their ideas.

On a sidenote: Can't promise anything, but I'll have a look at the challenge mayself.

[RandomJeb]

Looking at the wiki page, I decided to take a bit of a different approach...

Since I'd otherwise have to fly far away to get a nice eastward slope to crawl up...

Still needs some tweaking, but I'll get there! First dozen launches never even made it up the ramp!

And this is where I leave off for today

Progress!

Edited January 8, 2014 by RandomJeb
More stuff

[1096bimu]

Because it is annoying if you start a challenge, tell the people quite clearly what they want and then they try to exploit any loophole they can find, instead of using their common sense.

People that organize challenges are not paid to do so, they put up with a lot of work so that you can have some fun. Try to respect that. If you actively try to find loopholes and do anything you can do to break the challenge, you are doing nobody a favor, you are just acting like a jerk.

You discourage other people from taking part in the community by this behaviour, because they'll get the feeling, that they have to go to a lawyer before they are allowed to post their ideas.

On a sidenote: Can't promise anything, but I'll have a look at the challenge mayself.

I'm not sure about that for the ones where I have .... let's just say controversial entries.

and yes I do have a lot more respect for the ones that do fit your description a little more.

Anyway, if you really want a horizontal rocket, here's my horizontal rocket with a brand new fast sled:

It is completely horizontal as far as the game is concerned. and the sled does got faster than 100m/s

142.7 tones

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Edited January 8, 2014 by 1096bimu

[DJEN]

I'm not sure about that for the ones where I have .... let's just say controversial entries.

and yes I do have a lot more respect for the ones that do fit your description a little more.

Anyway, if you really want a horizontal rocket, here's my horizontal rocket with a brand new fast sled:

It is completely horizontal as far as the game is concerned. and the sled does got faster than 100m/s

142.7 tones

-interesting snips of total mockery-

Somebody got exploited again, it seems.

Also, nice job at exploiting my faulty wordplay.

Edited January 8, 2014 by DJEN

[HazelPine]

Interesting design, RandomJeb! I never thought of having a ramp IN the sled, instead if separatrons. I wanna see the final product! If the thing that shoots it into the ramp gets airborne, though (BUT you have that issue covered, it explodes in the ramp, at least as far as I can tell from the last pic. ) If you tune down the angle of the ramp it will work better, I had some experiments with rocket cars and ramps before!

Edited January 8, 2014 by SaplingPick

[Markus Reese]

Somebody got exploited again, it seems.

Also, nice job at exploiting my faulty wordplay.

That is when people just start ignoring.

In any sort of challenge, there can be what is considered "implied rules" The challenge is titled "Rocket Sled to LKO" There are some core rules to what the challenge is. It does not matter the "technicalities of the rules. End of they in anything in the world:

If I ask for THIS

And am given THIS

You will not get paid since it would not meet the required usage. Called project scope. You can argue, but it is quite clear what the desired product is. People can try and win by technicality or clever. I see "Know it alls" try it all the time to be clever. In the end, EVERY person I have met with that attitude ends up being disregarded because they are not presenting actual value or contribution.

If I made a challenge for an amphibious car in KSP, and the rules say it can only have four wheels, Then am given a space plane with 4 landing gears, then you gave me an amphibious plane. Not a car. Rules include definition.

@RandomJeb

Love your design! That is the fun way!

[Mic_n]

If I ask for THIS

http://www.sandia.gov/vqsec/images/Eject%20Sled.jpg

And am given THIS

http://www.bhmpics.com/walls/space_shuttle_launch_pad-other.jpg

You will not get paid since it would not meet the required usage.

You realise that that first link you posted is (I'm assuming, since the site is unreachable for me and all I can go off is google's cache) used to test high-speed aerodynamics and impacts, and has nothing at all to do with putting things into orbit, yes? So if what you're asking for is one of those, that will put something into orbit, then no-one's going to deliver anything because it's utter nonsense. The big shiny rocket on top of that sled isn't going into space any time soon.

The reason you're seeing "cheats" is because you gain absolutely nothing from using a rocket sled in the manner you're proposing. Any rocket that makes no use of aerodynamics (ie wings, which you appear to 'kinda' be allowing, except not) and can take off from a horizontal rocket sled is also a rocket that can take off without the sled.

It's simple physics: horizontal and vertical velocities are two separate components. Increasing horizontal velocity does not increase vertical velocity unless you have another external force being applied to 'angle' it.. that could be applied by wheels running along a ramp, it could be wings in the air, it could be some other element. Firing separatrons to 'stand up' is not making use of that horizontal velocity.

You want something that'll 'stand up' with your sled without wings? put a big stick running straight up off the top of it and put some parachutes on it. The drag will apply a torque to the craft to lift the nose. It's also pure drag and a complete waste of energy, but short of the ski-jump ramps showing up, it's the only "by the rules" way I can think of that could make any use of a sled.

Like I said, I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just to explain why you're seeing these "cheat" entries show up. Rocket sleds may well be very cool and all, but as you're describing (and given the difficulty in constructing an appropriate 'ski jump' in KSP) they're not something you'd really use to put a rocket into LKO as you're hoping.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Mic_n

[Kasuha]

Honestly

What are we trying to do?

You can tell a poorly thought out challenge from a mile away, if the first few posts are asking for details, you have done something wrong.

Make sure you explain your challenge properly so players know what they are supposed to be doing.

Poorly worded challenge rules become challenge of itself.

It did not happen to me once that my honest to God entry was discarded because it did not meet a rule that was not written. Or was written somewhere in the post but not in the rules list.

And of course then it becomes kind of fun trying to find exploits. Or showing the organizer he did not meet his own rules. Canards are not winglets, for instance.

[HazelPine]

You realise that that first link you posted is (I'm assuming, since the site is unreachable for me and all I can go off is google's cache) used to test high-speed aerodynamics and impacts, and has nothing at all to do with putting things into orbit, yes? So if what you're asking for is one of those, that will put something into orbit, then no-one's going to deliver anything because it's utter nonsense. The big shiny rocket on top of that sled isn't going into space any time soon.

The reason you're seeing "cheats" is because you gain absolutely nothing from using a rocket sled in the manner you're proposing. Any rocket that makes no use of aerodynamics (ie wings, which you appear to 'kinda' be allowing, except not) and can take off from a horizontal rocket sled is also a rocket that can take off without the sled.

You want something that'll 'stand up' with your sled without wings? put a big stick running straight up off the top of it and put some parachutes on it. The drag will apply a torque to the craft to lift the nose. It's also pure drag and a complete waste of energy, but short of the ski-jump ramps showing up, it's the only "by the rules" way I can think of that could make any use of a sled.

Like I said, I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just to explain why you're seeing these "cheat" entries show up. Rocket sleds may well be very cool and all, but as you're describing (and given the difficulty in constructing an appropriate 'ski jump' in KSP) they're not something you'd really use to put a rocket into LKO as you're hoping.

THAT IS WHY IT IS A CHALLENGE! Did you not listen to Xeldrak and Markus explaining how this is a challenge, and the fact you need a rocket sled is to see if you can do it? Without the sled part, the challenge would become 'who has the best computer to carry 1000000tons into LKO' challenge, which would not be a challenge unless you have no idea how you fly a ship.

[HazelPine]

I found this on the challenge guidelines:

As said by sal_vager: No one likes a wiseguy!

Challenges work on an honor system, we can't check if you are cheating and even if you don't "cheat", if you deliberately misinterpret the rules of a challenge or its spirit in order to gain an advantage, you'll spoil the fun for everyone else.

So if a challenge says Stock Only, it means Stock Only, not near stock or mostly stock, and if everyone else has posted a stock entry and there's no modded leaderboard, assume it's stock and ASK the challenge poster if they will consider a modded entry before entering.

Only some people respect the time I spent trying to clear up the fact that this is a challenge and it must be done in a specific way. The first few posts didn't ask for detail (except from a missunderstood user, which I explaned to him later), they were saying my challenge was unrealistic and troll without trying it for themselves.

Edited January 8, 2014 by SaplingPick