Science Revisited - New and improved ways to do science [1.3.1]

[CaptRobau]

This mod attempts to correct many of the flaws found in the current implementation of the science system. In a nutshell: it makes science gathering with unmanned more practical, makes the science lab a bit more useful and returning science to Kerbin is no longer the only viable option.

Crew & EVA Reports

The base value of both types of reports has been dropped a bit. This was done so that a certain area isn’t fully ‘scienced’ on the first try. This means you can either transmit the data and collect the remainder then or you can have another spacecraft pick up the remaining science. This also makes often visited places like low Kerbin orbit a bit more interesting, as there might still be some small bits of science left. The most important change is that Crew Reports in low orbits are now biome specific, while EVA Reports no longer are. This removes the annoying get-out-of-the-pod-click-on-EVA-report-and-climb-back-in and replaces it with something that works a little more intuitive.

Experiments

All the experiments now have a base value that is around ¾ of the science cap, to achieve the same effect as the Reports. The experiments have had their values changed the most, to create a more logical increase in reward vs. the amount of data it has to send (and thus how much electricity it costs). The small experiments also transmit at 100% now. Gravimetric or temperature data are after all just numbers, which can be easily transmitted. This gives also more use to probes, as they now have more science to gain from experiments that they can perform. It also cuts down on the necessity to bring all spacecraft back for maximum science. The Temperature Scan now also works in outer space.

A modified version of the MastCam by Sethnizzle (see thread for license) has been added, which allows for remote EVA reports but less efficient than a manned EVA report. This allows probes to be more useful but without removing the advantage of manned expeditions. An unmanned surface sample part has also been added, but it’s less efficient than a Kerbal collecting samples. A third new part performs a special orbital science experiment called Surface Mapping. This biome-specific experiment creates a use for satellites. Both of these parts’ models were graciously provided by Frizzank.

Mobile Processing Lab

To make the Lab more competitive with returning experiment results back to Kerbin, the transmission boost has been raised from 1.5 to 5. To make the science lab a bit more difficult to haul around, the mass has been increased to that of two Hitchhiker pods (which are about the same size as one Lab). The Lab now also has an interior, that of the Hitchhiker. There’s now place for four Kerbals, although only two are still necessary to enable the Lab’s function.

Other Changes

The antennas have been balanced and the placement of the science experiments on the tech tree has also been redone. The experiments with the lower payouts (such as the thermometer) now come before the ones that get a lot of sciene (such as the Materials Bay). The Hitchhiker pod has now been given a special space-based experiment, which makes it a worthy addition to any space station.

The mod also contains an optional mini-mod that changes the way solar panels work. They now more closely follow the inverse square law, which means they receive more realistic amounts of sunlight at various distances from the Sun. Instead of them working perfectly far beyond Eeloo, solar panels are now practical only to around Dres’ orbit. Like real-life, this means that if you want to go out further, RTGs might be a better choice.

Comments (critiques, suggestions, etc.) are also always welcome.

Changelog:

1.3.1:
-The science UIs now hide when not available
1.3:
-Added an optional tweak that changes all solar panels to more accurately follow in the inverse square law
-Added a new part that runs an orbital science experiment called Surface Mapping, which makes satellites more useful for science gathering
-Added a new part for doing unmanned surface samples, at the cost of reduced transmission values compared to manned samples
-Rebalanced the science values of all the science experiments, to account for the added experiments
-Increased the data scales of some experiments to make electrical management less trivial in later stages of career mode
-Replaced the modified Hitchhiker IVA for the Science Lab with only 2 available seats to the normal Hitchhiker IVA with 4, because I increased the crew capacity to 4 since it's such a big module. You still only need two Kerbals to work the Lab though
1.2:
-ModuleManager updated to 1.5.6
-Hitchhiker moved to the science tab and replaced its Crew Report with a special space-based experiment
-Small experiments have had their values changed, as I had a few values switched around
1.1:
-Moved the ScienceRevisited.cfg out of the Squad folder and into a custom one, to keep the former clean
-Changed the placement of the science parts in the tech tree nodes, so that most, including the Science Lab, are unlocked much earlier

License:

This is the same license as for the Probobodyne MastCam that I'm used for this mod. ModuleManager is distributed according to the rules set forth by its creators.

Credits:

Somnambulist - for helping me with ModuleManager stuff

Sethnizzle - for the original MastCam

Frizzank - for his models

ialdoboath and sarbian - for ModuleManager

Edited February 7, 2014 by CaptRobau

[Highlad]

The problem with putting science equipment at the end of the tree is that there is then no need for it. (Because you would have completed, or nearly completed, the tech tree.

That being said, this looks good. I did my own wee edit of the science lab, made it better but much heavier, needing WAY more electricity and needing 4 crew to operate...

[Hyomoto]

I agree with Highlad, the reason you unlock most the experiments early is because you need them to get through the tree. Beyond 'vanity science' that you can earn once you've fleshed out the tree, the lab would be good for little more than roleplay. Of course, that's mostly what it is used for now since the only places with proper biomes are easy to return from.

[Nelien]

Haha, you've got to be kidding me. I've posted this thread only one hour ago!

Although I have to say, I think I'll stick with my own changes for now since I rather not have tech tree changes and other smaller things that you've changed. Still, nice work!

Also, I suggest not putting the .cfg in the Squad folder. Make your own plugin folder and put it there instead. Squad should be "clean" from modifications preferably.

[CaptRobau]

Thanks for the feedback. You're probably right. I hadn't thought of how much the science requirement can grow with each tech tier. The order is better now I think, but it needs to be moved up to earlier nodes.

[Raccoon]

You say you've balanced the antennas, how exactly? I'm wondering how this will work alongside RemoteTech.

[CaptRobau]

The speeds are now in direct correlation with the electricity cost. Low electricity cost is combined with slower transmission speeds and high electricity cost is combined with higher transmission speeds. The 88-88 for example had twice the electricity cost as the 16 but only 20% higher speed. The DTS-M1 on the other hand only had one-and-a-half times the power cost but twice the speed. Now the order is 16, DTS-M1 and then the 8-88 (because it is much larger than the DTS-M1) in terms of speed and thus power cost.

[Nelien]

In regards to Remote Tech 2, this mod won't break it as far as I can tell so you're safe to use them together, however, the changes on antennas in this mod won't take effect if using it together with Remote Tech 2 since RT2 uses it's own transmitter module.

To CaptRobau, something like this might fix it and work with or without RT2, but I haven't tested it since I don't have RT2 installed at the moment:

@PART[longAntenna]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleRTAntenna]]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleRTAntenna]
	{
                @TRANSMITTER
                {
		    @packetInterval = 0.8
                }
	}
}

@PART[mediumDishAntenna]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleRTAntenna]]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleRTAntenna]
	{
                @TRANSMITTER
                {
		    @packetInterval = 0.4	
		    @packetResourceCost = 20.0
                }
	}
}

@PART[commDish]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleRTAntenna]]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleRTAntenna]
	{
                @TRANSMITTER
                {
		    @packetInterval = 0.2	
		    @packetResourceCost = 40.0
                }
	}
}

[The Destroyer]

Exelent!

Now if only there were "specific experiments". For instance, water, as an "upgraded" version of the tempature gauge. That would make sense to have less value to transmit.

[CaptRobau]

Version 1.1 is now up in the OP.

Changelog:

1.1:
-Moved the ScienceRevisited.cfg out of the Squad folder and into a custom one, to keep the former clean
-Changed the placement of the science parts in the tech tree nodes, so that most, including the Science Lab, are unlocked much earlier

The science parts are now introduced two nodes earlier and the progression is tied to how much they're worth. This creates a more natural progression, where investing in the science path rewards you with more powerful tools to get lots of science instead of the stock version where most of the worthwhile parts are at the start. Delete the previous version of the mod, btw.

@Nelien, I decided against the RT2 integration. I looked at the mod and its settings are also different from stock, which seems to imply that its creator had his own kind of balance in mind. The mods are still compatible though, minus the antenna balancing.

[Nelien]

@Nelien, I decided against the RT2 integration. I looked at the mod and its settings are also different from stock, which seems to imply that its creator had his own kind of balance in mind. The mods are still compatible though, minus the antenna balancing.

I agree with you honestly. I just thought I put the proposed fix out there in case someone wants the antenna tweak in their game. Easy enough for people to add on their own.

[CaptRobau]

Need some feedback on this. Currently solar panels will deliver power well beyond where most players will go, around twice as far as Eeloo. In my mind this makes RTGs completely useless, contrary to real-life where those things are necessary for missions to the gas giants and beyond. In real-life solar panels can only be used up to the orbit of Jupiter (the Juno spacecraft). I was thinking about reducing the power-production range for solar panels to the semi-major axis (the average orbit) of Jool. Since power is so essential to science I think this would help make science gathering more interesting, more strategic. So what do you think? Is it something that needs changing? Do you think it's beyond the scope of this mod or not?

[Nelien]

I like the idea, but in general I prefer for mods to be more focused and less broad, that way I can pick the stuff I like and not be forced changes which I don't. Maybe keep things modular? But then again, it depends on your aim of this mod.

[somnambulist]

Since power is so essential to science I think this would help make science gathering more interesting, more strategic. So what do you think? Is it something that needs changing? Do you think it's beyond the scope of this mod or not?

You could always include it as a separate MM CFG file. Those of us who like hard mode can play that way. Do the stock solar panels follow the inverse square law?

[ZobrAA]

Need some feedback on this. Currently solar panels will deliver power well beyond where most players will go, around twice as far as Eeloo. In my mind this makes RTGs completely useless, contrary to real-life where those things are necessary for missions to the gas giants and beyond. In real-life solar panels can only be used up to the orbit of Jupiter (the Juno spacecraft). I was thinking about reducing the power-production range for solar panels to the semi-major axis (the average orbit) of Jool. Since power is so essential to science I think this would help make science gathering more interesting, more strategic. So what do you think? Is it something that needs changing? Do you think it's beyond the scope of this mod or not?

Good idea, but what about huge amount of mods with custom solar panels? There are two options here: tweak ALL the possible panels and keep updating it forever in case of new mods, or just leave it as is for now...

And by the way, good job with this release, I totally will use it from now on! Thx many-many times!

Edited January 8, 2014 by ZobrAA

[Nelien]

Good idea, but what about huge amount of mods with custom solar panels? There are two options here: tweak ALL the possible panels and keep updating it forever in case of new mods, or just leave it as is for now...

And by the way, good job with this release, I totally will use it from now on! Thx many-many times!

Regarding mods with solar panels, surprisingly that should be trivial to deal with thanks to the amazing Module Manager. Something like this should handle all current stock, future and plugin solar panel in one swift swoop:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleDeployableSolarPanel]]:Final
{
    // Magical changes and additions to any solar panel here
}

I know.. I'm swooning over the amazingness that is Module Manager .

[ZobrAA]

Regarding mods with solar panels, surprisingly that should be trivial to deal with thanks to the amazing Module Manager. Something like this should handle all current stock, future and plugin solar panel in one swift swoop:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleDeployableSolarPanel]]:Final
{
    // Magical changes and additions to any solar panel here
}

I know.. I'm swooning over the amazingness that is Module Manager .

Wait, did I miss something about MM? Does it support regular expressions now? O_o

[Nelien]

Wait, did I miss something about MM? Does it support regular expressions now? O_o

Not exactly full support of regular expressions but some wildcard usage and certain conditionals like "HAS" and stuff like "not" and "doesn't have", etc.. It's all in this forum post: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55219-Module-Manager-1-5-6-%28Jan-6%29?p=728591&viewfull=1#post728591

[CaptRobau]

Regarding mods with solar panels, surprisingly that should be trivial to deal with thanks to the amazing Module Manager. Something like this should handle all current stock, future and plugin solar panel in one swift swoop:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleDeployableSolarPanel]]:Final
{
    // Magical changes and additions to any solar panel here
}

I know.. I'm swooning over the amazingness that is Module Manager .

I was planning to use this method if I included the solar panel change. At the moment I'm leaning to including it as a separate MM cfg. That way there's the option to use or not use it.

You could always include it as a separate MM CFG file. Those of us who like hard mode can play that way. Do the stock solar panels follow the inverse square law?

The stock panels don't follow the inverse square law. Instead the solar intensity is given for various points (Sun, Kerbin orbit, etc.) I can approximate the inverse square law though.

[CaptRobau]

1.2 has been released and can be found in the OP. The changes:

1.2:
-ModuleManager updated to 1.5.6
-Hitchhiker moved to the science tab and replaced its Crew Report with a special space-based experiment
-Small experiments have had their values changed, as I had a few values switched around

The Hitchhiker's new 'Micro-Gravity Experiment' is the biggest change. It only works in space, which gives the Hitchhiker a new use as a space station piece although it can still be used to ship a lot of Kerbins in one go.

[ZobrAA]

How about adding Cam Reports for HullcamVDS parts? Maybe with different science cost depending on type of cameras...

[mossman]

How about adding Cam Reports for HullcamVDS parts? Maybe with different science cost depending on type of cameras...

Seconded.

I'm going to try to make my own, actually. Doesn't look too difficult.

Edit: Can't figure out how to make reports of the same experimentID give data values specific to the instrument doing the experiment. Is this possible?

Also, whenever I add definitions to ScienceRevisited.cfg for the HullCams, I'm no longer able to use the scientific equipment in-game other than the experiment on the camera (But not the mast-cam) - The context options are no longer there. Any idea what's going on?

Another edit: I've narrowed the cause down to the definition of the new "Photograph" experiment.

EXPERIMENT_DEFINITION
{
    id = photograph
    title = Photograph
    baseValue = 6
    scienceCap = 8
    dataScale = 2.5

    requireAtmosphere = False
    situationMask = 63
    biomeMask = 31

    RESULTS
    {
        default = You take a photograph of your surroundings.
        //LAST_ENTRY
    }
}

Anyone have a clue as to what's wrong with it?

Edited January 14, 2014 by mossman

[ZobrAA]

Anyone have a clue as to what's wrong with it?

No idea actually, as I'm not fully understand that experiment definitions... -_-"

Now I'm using copy of MODULE[ModuleScienceExperiment] from SciCam, integrated into HullcamVDS cams with my custom MM cfg and it seems to be working.

But I have another issue - seems like pods cannot store more than one Crew Report, so now you can return observations only from one biome per flight. It seems to be wrong, am I right? How can I restore ability for multiple biomes observations?

[StainX]

Wow nice, thats exactly what i was looking for!

Also a suggestion if you allow: could you rescale the size of the goo canister and the material bay to fit better on probes, and maybe they should give less science points as the big ones?

[CaptRobau]

Glad you like it. Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think it'd be a good idea. You need to make a choice, make a small probe that can easily travel far out into the solar system but only get a bit of science or build a big probe or manned mission that's hard to pull off but gets you a lot of science. Don't fret however, probes will be made more diverse in the next update through other means. I'm procuring models for two new science experiments. One is an unmanned Surface Sampler, which is obviously not as useful as an EVAing Kerbal. The second is an experiment that takes photographs of a planet/moon from orbit. This gives a reason for orbiting satellites.