[WIP] Real Engine Models

[m00f]

Sorry about the wrong image. Take 2

[likke_A_boss]

Sorry about the wrong image. Take 2

http://i.imgur.com/t41gtzV.jpg

Hey, you asked me to work on this. And I am. And its taking FOREVER.

[specs]

Look at it mounted on the Delta 2 first stage though, and you see none of that.

I think that's just an aero-shroud for the liquid fuel tanks.

Here, this is a cross section of the Delta III (Don't worry, they used the same engines in the first stage); in it, you can see the two cylindrical heat exchangers mounted on the side of one strut trient:

Leading me to believe that this:

is pretty much what the engine looked like right before it was stuffed up inside the first stage.

[Agathorn]

Ahh a fairing. That makes sense. Of course in KSP you typically don't put a fairing between your fuel tank and your engine, but I have no problems modeling that extra stuff if that is what everyone wants. It just means a heavier poly model.

[specs]

I'm pretty sure my PC will be able to cope:cool:. That said, have you checked out this thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/47892-0-21-X-Rocketdyne-F-1-Liquid-Engine-%28Saturn-V-main-engines%29-UPDATED-v1-2?

I would assume that this guy knows what's up with high, and low poly model activity within KSP.

[NathanKell]

123nick: Kosmos has engines with thrust frames but without those giant bottom-tenth-of-a-fuel-tank domes that are, in fact, bottom-tenths-of-fuel-tanks and thus not engines. Good on Kosmos.

Um, m00f, I think you may be misunderstanding the point of this thread. It's for creating 1:1 scale and stat exact real engines, not engines for KSP that happen to look realisitc.

Of course in KSP you typically don't put a fairing between your fuel tank and your engine

Um...RSS users aren't typical.

But yes, almost all engines are boattailed both to decrease drag and to sheild the engine equipment (especially from SRB exhaust; see how the Titan II's un-boattailed LR-87s were faired for Titan III and IV). Few rockets fair their engines away as much as V-2 and Redstone (aka V-2 Mk2), but most at least cover up the machinery. Indeed, offhand, I can't think of much other than Titan I/II where the engine isn't boattailed.

[Agathorn]

I honestly didn't even know you COULD shroud the active stage engine.

[AbeS]

with pfairings you can, I think he is using the interstage adapter upside down

[NoMrBond]

I made some engine shrouds for a proton replica with PFairings with the fuselage pieces

Set the shroud length by inserting cubic octag's between up-down fairing rings, then lock the fuselage lengths and pull them off and aside for later

Shroud the engines by putting a single (fuel flow enabled) down facing fairing ring above the engine and clipping the size locked fuselage pieces to it ( I did 3 of 4 positions, leaving the inward node empty)

[Edit] Quick mockup pictures

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edited January 20, 2014 by NoMrBond

[NathanKell]

Yup, I'm (1) using an upside-down interstage sometimes, and sometimes (2) clipping a girder inside a tank (bottom node of girder to bottom node of tank) and attaching top node of engine to top node of girder. Ferram used empty conical stretchy tanks with option 2, IIRC.

[Agathorn]

If any of you rocket experts can help me understand something, it would be appreciated.

Does this engine have TWO heat exchange systems? I see what I think is the "standard" one that runs down the left side of the engine and then around the bell. But then there is that upper tubing that leads to an exhaust on the right side. It also appears as though both are connected on the left.

Am I reading this right? It drives me crazy that every single photo I can find of this engine shows the exact same angle!

[NathanKell]

If you mean the big exhaust pipe, that's for the gas generator. Or am I misinterpreting what pipe you mean?

Edit: NoMrBond, since e-dog added the procedural interstage, you don't have to go through all that work anymore. It'll do it for you, with custom-height fairings.

[Agathorn]

If you mean the big exhaust pipe, that's for the gas generator. Or am I misinterpreting what pipe you mean?

On the F1 for example, if I read it right, the heat exchanger and turbopump exhaust are one and the same. A single pipe that runs around the circumference of the top of the nozzle, and connects to the turbopump exhaust via a twin inlet/outlet.

On this engine however, it appears there is both that heat exchange ring AND a separate exhaust. And while it is very hard to see clearly, it very much looks like the two pipes (the silver one on top of nozzle, and bronze one above) are both connected on the left, which presumably leads to a hidden connection to the turbopump.

[NoMrBond]

Edit: NoMrBond, since e-dog added the procedural interstage, you don't have to go through all that work anymore. It'll do it for you, with custom-height fairings.

Oh good, I hadn't actually done any replica work for a while, the Proton was a while ago now, before the interstage was available

Been spending more time modelling than playing I have to admit

...On the F1 for example...

I think the F1 was very unusual (for a gas-generator cycle rocket) in that it redirected the gas generator exhaust into the main nozzle?

Edited January 20, 2014 by NoMrBond

[NathanKell]

Correct. Most gas generator engines (of that period) just exhausted the gas. Viz. the *giant* stovepipe-like exhaust on early Atlas models. Regenerative cooling of the nozzle isn't even done with turbopump generator exhaust IIRC, it's (liquid) fuel.

[Agathorn]

Album updated with another WIP for the RS27A. Starting to work on the bits up top, but the going is very slow due to a complete lack of any good reference. I want to be as accurate as I can but i'm really guessing on most of what is up there, how it connects, and where.

The bit in the middle is just some random widget right now. I think the turbopump is mounted on the back, but i'll be damned if I can find a picture of this engine from any other angle.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Agathorn

[MaverickSawyer]

Uhm... really lo-res, but these does show some of the turbomachinery:

Also, found this: http://www.rocketdynearchives.com/engines/rs27.html

Might be of use.

[NoMrBond]

It was closely related to the H1

It's not going to have the aspirator though, might be helpful

[Agathorn]

Uhm... really lo-res, but these does show some of the turbomachinery:

http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/r/rs27.jpg

http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/r/rdyrs27a.jpg

Also, found this: http://www.rocketdynearchives.com/engines/rs27.html

Might be of use.

Thanks I hadn't seen that top picture. Its of the other side yay! Its 5 pixels wide, boo!

[Agathorn]

It was closely related to the H1

It's not going to have the aspirator though, might be helpful

Thanks. Knowing its related might help, as the H1 is a lot easier to find reference on.

[NathanKell]

Here's a page on the S-3D (slight forerunner of the RS-27):

http://heroicrelics.org/info/s-3d/s-3d-overview.html

[DasBananenbrot]

I know you said you are doing this on limited time frame but still just wanted to know if there is some progress?