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KRF Formula K World Championship

NQMT

By NQMT
in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas

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6.forty

6.forty

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Posted (edited)

How do I get this here brand new Hammerhead Eagle K-Thrust approved? Spoot Kerman is the poor sap lucky Kerbal to be put behind the wheel of this fine piece of machinery.

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Edited by 6.forty
New name, same great taste!
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NQMT

NQMT

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6.forty:

1. The name KRT is trademarked by the Kyrian Racing Team and its subsidiaries. Sorry. :/

2. Regulations are right here for you to mosey through.

[EDIT] Noticed you have no downforce. It's wise to add it. :)

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6.forty

6.forty

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Posted
6.forty:

1. The name KRT is trademarked by the Kyrian Racing Team and its subsidiaries. Sorry. :/

2. Regulations are right here for you to mosey through.

[EDIT] Noticed you have no downforce. It's wise to add it. :)

1. That's what I get for not paying attention. I'm not good with names, but I'm sure the Hammerhead Eagle K-Thrust isn't taken here.

2. Followed them and even avoided cubic struts entirely as I thought I saw a post saying those might get restricted. So I'm looking for the pre-race inspection tent.

Downforce? Naa. Tried that, no matter what angle they were at they would generate lift and it would get unstable around 20m/s. Its own weight plus the negative camber seems to keep it planted well enough in a sharp turn.

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GROOV3ST3R

GROOV3ST3R

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Well, it's largely my fault for cubic struts - once people saw that they offer no drag resistance at all and almost no mass, they became the main feature to make the vehicles out of.

For this season however, they will not be restricted. That rule will be enforced in season 2, along with certain other improvements.

Wings angled in certain directions will generate negative lift. It will still show lift as... well, lift, but it will act like downforce. That's most likely because FAR doesn't really distinguish between lift and downforce but it's pretty much the same thing anyway. If your craft becomes unstable past 20m/s WITH downforce then I would take a look at altering your structure. It looks like you have a very top-heavy craft and some extreme camber on those wheels. That can't be good for maneuvering. In Need For Speed, yes, that would be great. But in KSP, camber is a bit of a killer.

2 other things, that tank is causing a lot of drag :S Put some aero domes on it (limitations of FAR, it doesn't see that the tank is actually obscured by other parts, still generates drag) and you would be much better off with solar panels instead of RTG's. They are very heavy and especially with the way you mounted them, they put your centre of gravity through the roof :S Again, that has a negative impact on stability. Try it out ^^ We found that 7 panels is enough to race in most lighting conditions and 8 is enough for almost anything.

On the side:

donfede is right - you HAVE ran the race in Reverse :3 What a thing to miss :P Shouldn't affect the time much though since everyone starts from a standing start anyway.

Edited by GROOV3ST3R
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DaPatman

DaPatman

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Nice push DaPatman, and I really like your racer. would love to see a craft file for it :)

Why not? Maybe you can make it more aerodynamic!

Unfortunately, I 'believe' you may have run the track for race02 in reverse.

Actually, I just went back and looked at the track, and it looks like I went the right way round, but started from the wrong place. Don't know what effect that's had on my time, but I'm happy to run it again tonight.

EDIT: ...And done! MET 1:10 - MET 3:04, for a time of 1:54:

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Edited by DaPatman
Run the race
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6.forty

6.forty

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The revised Hammerhead Eagle K-Thrust, submitted for your approval:

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The rear camber helps keep it shiny side up when four-wheel steering at "high" speed. It's a bit faster now, even with only one rear RCS thruster. And it seems solid enough that I think I'm going to start using these in my space program for some Munar terrace hopping science.

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NQMT

NQMT

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Just a thing for everyone to note: All races will be clockwise unless otherwise stated by me.

[edit] 6.forty, car is approved. Good luck this season!

Edited by Kyrian
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GROOV3ST3R

GROOV3ST3R

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Good luck with Munar terrace hopping science. I know that my ultra low CoG rover which was perfect on Kerbin wouldn't drive with any degree of stability past 8m/s - hell I could even flip it just by driving off with a little too much force xD

It doesn't look bad though. Something like a rage buggy for dune bashing - which you might find is an advantage sooner or later ^^

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donfede

donfede

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Posted
I found RCS to be critical to turning, especially at the higher speeds. Learning to 'maximize RCS usage' by switching between translation/rotation modes was instrumental in cutting off several seconds (and steering at higher speeds). On my KMk2 version I relocated the RCS to the edges of the wheel axles. I also have action groups to toggle each RCS, assisting with steering. ...
... So how do you set those groups up anyway? Would that not be inconvenient having to press random buttons on top of regular steering? I find it fairly awkward pressing Shift all the time while trying to steer and switching between 2 wheel steer and 4 wheel steer.

...

The revised Hammerhead Eagle K-Thrust, submitted for your approval:

http://imgur.com/a/DGpPv

... It's a bit faster now, even with only one rear RCS thruster. ...

Per our PM chat 6forty, you may consider re-adding the 2nd RCS to the rear of your racer - possibly locating the 2x rear RCS on the edges to help with steering (no restrictions this season). Exploring new engineering designs is great (and kudos if you found success with this current approach); however, we also want to see race contenders that will excel without handicap.

My racer craft has two action group keys to toggle the left and rights RCS thrusters (keys: 6=L and 7=R). The end-goal is maximum RCS thrust for the longest possible time.

- When driving in docking-translation mode (right-most "blue icon"), forward (W key) enables the rear RCS. This is great to accelerate forward.

- When driving in docking-rotation mode (left "green ROT icon", switch with spacebar), turning (A or D key) enables the RCS. This is useful to turn sharply. note: SAS is disabled by default in this mode; I re-enable SAS, to help keep the car "flat" and on the ground, in particular to kounter Kraken kattacks...

- maneuvering through turns, I regularly switch between the two modes and toggle SAS appropriately

- before fully entering a turn (ie: the A or D keys are not used yet), I sometimes use docking-translation mode and the RCS toggles, to have RCS assist with steering. [initially I used this most of the time, but have lately been leaving both RCS on as long as possible]

- SAS can be useful to counter Kraken attacks, while crossing terrain tiles, as it helps keep the vehicle flat with wheels on the ground.

Last - here is a link to the wiki history of Formula 1 rule changes, for some comparison to our evolving rules :)

best,

kdonfede

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NQMT

NQMT

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I have been working flat out on the new regulations.

Here is a simplified summary.

- 4 wheels, pairs must be opposite each other (sorry donfede)

- max 7 small control surfaces (4 at front, 3 at rear)

- cap on cubic octagonal struts is lifted, however the placement of the cubic octagonal struts will be policed.

- 3 RCS ports.

- max 4 solar panels, minimum 2 RTG's.

- ground effect is banned.

- using RCS for downforce is banned. RCS ports MUST NOT face any angle upwards.

- ports can not be placed in front of the front wheels, must be in the rear 2/3 of the chassis.

- safety of roll bar will have to be shown in editor, will clarify soon.

- struts not permitted.

- front and rear wing must be on separate pylons built from cubic octagonal struts.

- maximum RCS per race raised to 25u.

- you may only use 3 chassises throughout the 11 race season. (yes, 2 more races next season)

There will be a few more. Maybe. Probably not.

[EDIT] I was going to ban SAS this current season but forgot.

SAS WILL BE BANNED AFTER RACE 6 OF SEASON 1.

For the people who do not have SAS, you are permitted to add it and nothing more. Only 1 SAS unit permitted.

Edited by Kyrian
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NQMT

NQMT

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Race Two has now been closed. Race Three will be up in a few days. I will also release a testing circuit for you all to test your Season 2 - spec cars.

CURRENT STANDINGS:

[Pos]: [username] - [Pts] (Race 1 pos, Race 2 pos)

1st: GROOV3ST3R - 10pts (1st, 1st)

2nd: donfede - 5pts (3rd, 2nd)

3rd: Frafor - 5pts (2nd, 3rd)

4th: Kyrian - 1pt (4th, ---)

5th: CaptainGiblets - 1pt (6th, 4th)

6th: Blaze 9X - 0pts (5th, 6th)

7th: DisarmingBaton5 - 0pts (7th, 7th)

8th: randomness5555 - 0pts (8th, 9th)

9th: vger - 0pts (---, 5th)

10th: DaPatman - 0pts (---, 8th)

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GROOV3ST3R

GROOV3ST3R

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Posted (edited)
I have been working flat out on the new regulations.

- ground effect is banned.

- using RCS for downforce is banned. RCS ports MUST NOT face any angle upwards.

- ports can not be placed in front of the front wheels, must be in the rear 2/3 of the chassis.

- safety of roll bar will have to be shown in editor, will clarify soon.

- struts not permitted.

- front and rear wing must be on separate pylons built from cubic octagonal struts.

Someone has been reading that Wiki page ^^ I read the entire thing and I must say, it makes sense. Having seen the documentary about Ayrton Senna and Rush, I must say that the sport has come a long way from where it was.

Struts not permitted, wait what?? How are we supposed to make anything without struts?! Any car will either be very narrow or flopping about all over the place - or using a flat floorpan which will raise the CoG. I' just gonna go out there to say that rule needs some serious amendments.

All things considered though, we will definitely see some better and faster race crafts coming next season. I think it's time for me to compile the mod pack once and for all and send you the link to the ZIP file - PLEASE, post the direct link this time as it will allow me to amend the mod pack without me needing you to post another link.

Also, plural form of chassis is chassis ^^.

EDIT:

Typically of me, I forgot to write down which plugins I got permissions to use in the mod pack :S Oh well, I'll work it out.

Edited by GROOV3ST3R
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GROOV3ST3R

GROOV3ST3R

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Not with that thing ^^

M1 wheels only, no command pods, no external plugins (though it looks stock, just saying), no other means of propulsion other than wheels.

You CAN however join in with a different rover, made to current specifications for Season 1.

On the side:

That is an interesting concept, a semi-truck but with a rigid or none connection. I was experimenting with the use of the smallest rover wheels as a means of a stock KSP hinge and I have to say that it worked - in principle at least. I mounted a heavy tank turret on top of the mechanism and with a crap ton of those wheels i was able to effortlessly turn it around. HOWEVER, it did cause some minor glitching and was prone to wheel damage as well as it liked to slide out of it's hole. I'm sure I can refine that mechanism and show you how it would work. I also tried it with regular landing gears which are much more rugged and sturdy, however that was not a workable concept since it required MUCH more space and it was almost impossible to get the angles right - the gear mounting is offset relative to the centre of the entire assembly, making it difficult at best to get the right angle. Maybe you will have better luck with that ^^ I'll post pics later.

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CaptainGiblets

CaptainGiblets

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I like the new rules for season 2, cars have to be very efficient with limited power intake, and the ground effect banned will make it challenging to build cars, my car kind relies on the ground effect

Edited by CaptainGiblets
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donfede

donfede

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Posted
Race Two has now been closed. ...

CURRENT STANDINGS:

[Pos]: [username] - [Pts] (Race 1 pos, Race 2 pos)

...

I'll let the race coordinators say the final word, but for contenders that have not scored (at all, or the current round?), they have the option to submit a redesigned/updated craft. (hopefully this will keep participant interest, and prevent sub-classes of racers within the league)

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NQMT

NQMT

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Competitors who have not scored any points after Race 3 will be permitted to add a third RCS port, and a minor redesign will be allowed. I will need to see the original and the updated car, however.

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DisarmingBaton5

DisarmingBaton5

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No struts allowed next season? That seems unnecessary. Until 0.24 with more rigid connections, or if KJR is included in the modpack, I object to that rule.

Also, please clarify this:

- front and rear wing must be on separate pylons built from cubic octagonal struts.
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Frafor

Frafor

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Posted

What do you mean with ground effect? I didn't even knew you could do that. Are you talking about ground effect like the Lotus 79?

Also, you are saying there will be no cubic octogonal strut cap but their placement will be policed, what will be allowed and what not?

And last, with SAS are you talking about reaction wheels?

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GROOV3ST3R

GROOV3ST3R

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No, cubic octogonal struts WILL be limited - as far as I can remember, Kyrian said he wants to limit them to around 10 per car. While having to use them as Pylons for your wings, you will likely be unable to make any kind of chassis with them. That is unless we can use the actual pylons which already exist in the game for that very purpose.

I think he means generally SAS as in SAS mode, not just specific cores.

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